3 ms·

curious if this is just against legacy car makers or whether it also works against tesla, rivian, lucid (or any other almost software first car company). presum

curious if this is just against legacy car makers or whether it also works against tesla, rivian, lucid (or any other almost software first car company). presumably not?

hardware2win 3y ago
What makes you think that software companies would do better? Wasnt the mindset of computer security that "if they can access the hardware then it is over"?
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  I don't think he's assuming that Tesla (etc.) cars are more secure, just that they're different, and so would need different tools.
  - dwattttt 3y ago
    A quick Google suggests the Tesla S, X, 3, and Y all have multiple CAN buses (https://teslatap.com/modifications/extracting-internal-vehicle-data/ https://teslatap.com/modifications/extracting-internal-vehic...)
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Nearly everything has multiple can busses because CAN is too slow for many/most usecases nowadays. Some car manufacturers you can even feel the random lag in everything from the accelerator to the brake lights due to the canbus being so full it adds a half second delay before updating everything. Automotive ethernet is faster and might be back to a single bus...
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    No, they have exactly same problems as regular OEMs https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/12/23348765/tesla-model-y-unlock-drive-car-thief-nfc-relay-attack https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/12/23348765/tesla-model-y-un...
    - ahepp 3y ago
      > The sophisticated relay attack requires two thieves working together — one near the owner and one near the car
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  iOS is pretty resilient these days, unless you happen to have a zeroday ready.
- b3lvedere 3y ago
  Yup. Physical access is access
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Because the kind of vulnerability being exploited here is basic "software engineering 101" that even a non-technical person should be able to figure out. It's the equivalent of putting something in a safe and then duct-taping the key to the safe itself.
- squishy47 3y ago
  i don't know anything about how cars work but the article says "At the moment, impacted vehicles are generally wide open to these sorts of attacks. The only proper fix would be to introduce cryptographic protections to CAN messages, Tindell told Motherboard in an email. This could be done via a software update, he added" and i'm kinda expecting software first companies to already have this stuff in place? also stolen car media seems to focus on legacy autos being stolen not so much the newer ones, hence the question but maybe the theives target better build quality, who knows.

curious if this is just against legacy car makers or whether it also works against tesla, rivian, lucid (or any other almost software first car company). presumably not?

hardware2win 3y ago

What makes you think that software companies would do better? Wasnt the mindset of computer security that "if they can access the hardware then it is over"?

LeoPanthera 3y ago
I don't think he's assuming that Tesla (etc.) cars are more secure, just that they're different, and so would need different tools.
- dwattttt 3y ago
  A quick Google suggests the Tesla S, X, 3, and Y all have multiple CAN buses (https://teslatap.com/modifications/extracting-internal-vehicle-data/ https://teslatap.com/modifications/extracting-internal-vehic...)
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Nearly everything has multiple can busses because CAN is too slow for many/most usecases nowadays. Some car manufacturers you can even feel the random lag in everything from the accelerator to the brake lights due to the canbus being so full it adds a half second delay before updating everything. Automotive ethernet is faster and might be back to a single bus...
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  No, they have exactly same problems as regular OEMs https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/12/23348765/tesla-model-y-unlock-drive-car-thief-nfc-relay-attack https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/12/23348765/tesla-model-y-un...
  - ahepp 3y ago
    > The sophisticated relay attack requires two thieves working together — one near the owner and one near the car
hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
iOS is pretty resilient these days, unless you happen to have a zeroday ready.
b3lvedere 3y ago
Yup. Physical access is access
Nextgrid 3y ago
Because the kind of vulnerability being exploited here is basic "software engineering 101" that even a non-technical person should be able to figure out. It's the equivalent of putting something in a safe and then duct-taping the key to the safe itself.
squishy47 3y ago
i don't know anything about how cars work but the article says "At the moment, impacted vehicles are generally wide open to these sorts of attacks. The only proper fix would be to introduce cryptographic protections to CAN messages, Tindell told Motherboard in an email. This could be done via a software update, he added" and i'm kinda expecting software first companies to already have this stuff in place? also stolen car media seems to focus on legacy autos being stolen not so much the newer ones, hence the question but maybe the theives target better build quality, who knows.