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We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on bann
by paganel 4y ago
We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars.
It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.
- solarengineer 4y agoCould you help us understand why you would like to keep buying gasoline cars? (Edit: I see that you are being down voted. Perhaps elaborating on your desire to continue to be able to buy gasoline cars might help clarify your position better)
- nickpp 4y agoSome people like freedom of choice, I guess. Like in a democracy, where you can vote whatever candidate you like, except here is with your wallet. Others like dictatures.
- goodpoint 4y agoICE produce proven carcinogenic pollutants. Your freedom to intoxicate other people goes against their freedom to remain unharmed. (Not to mention noise, environmental damage, geopolitical risks surrounding oil... all well proven stuff)
- nickpp 4y agoOh, I am no fan of ICE engines, at all. Hate them, personally. But I know how harmful heavy handed-mandates can be. I have seen the damage such mandates have already made in other instances with voters being then easily recruited and radicalized by populist politicians. This is a delicate issue, already highly politicized and deeply hypocritical for both sides. Completely curtailing people’s freedoms is not the way to approach it, if you want to change anything.
- ahahahahah 4y agoIt's wild to imagine that people would widely violently protest against such a change. Like, I find it pretty amusing to look back at the old news broadcasts of people objecting to allowing women in bars or disallowing drunk driving or requiring cars to come with seatbelts, but those all just feel like they're from a completely different time. If people in this day will espouse similarly intelligent positions, it'll be so interesting.
- cinquemb 4y agoIf it was cheaper now for people to buy EV over ICE upfront (externalities be damned because "loin des yeux loin du couer" [not like most people buying EV now give a damn about the supply chain for the minerals that go into the batteries...]), there would be very little push back. It's really not that difficult to understand.
- Moldoteck 4y agoI guess the problem is electric cars aren't cheap, even in SH market and public transport in some parts of europe and us just sucks. For example I can totally see banning selling ice cars in netherlands, sweeden, norway, israel and other regions with good transportation and richer people, but banning them in us, italy, greece, romania and other similar states (either because they're poor or public transport is bad) is a hard sell
- dalyons 4y agoThey will become cheap though. As manufacturers move downmarket and the used Ev market grows. Maybe even cheaper than gas in the end - simpler, more reliable etc
- coderenegade 4y agoIf they become that cheap, there won't be any need to ban ICEVs.
- dalyons 4y ago
- matsemann 4y agoWhy is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?
- serf 4y agoWhy is it so important to plant goal posts where parent doesn't? Some people like to have the freedom to choose between things, it isn't about trying to be some kind of villain.
- matsemann 4y agoThen explain how polluting and making lots of noise is freedom? Is speed limits imposing on your freedom to drive as fast as you want? Seat belt laws imposing on your freedom to have your kids unsecured in the car? I seriously don't understand this mindset.
- atq2119 4y agoOf course it's about freedom. What some people don't want to hear is that their freedom must be limited where it impacts other people. Nobody is alone in the world.
- vixen99 4y agoImportant also to consider the degree to which we choose (while improving our own environment) to get others to pollute on our behalf and suffer the consequences - as in the extensive environmental damage caused by lithium and cobalt mining. This is not an argument against EV or renewables by any means but let's ensure we maintain a realistic assessment of all pros and cons. Up to 70% of cobalt is produced in the Congo where up to 200,000 people work for around $3 a day. This is a good wage locally which conveniently translates to an excellent price for us in the West to enjoy clean air cities. https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/ https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/
- matsemann 4y agoYup, best would be to get rid of the car dependence. Make walk-able cities for people, not cities designed for cars.
- mpreda 4y agoI on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back of the established cars manufacturers. ICE cars are such a nuisance in cities by polluting the air. I look forward to a time when my children will be able to enjoy clean air in the cities.
- nickpp 4y agoBanning ICE cars in cities is completely different from banning ICE car sales in whole countries.
- Glawen 4y agoI call this egoism. Modern ecologism just aims to make a nice walled garden around their voters, they don't care what is happening outside this garden. In the reality, other parts of the country/earth is getting polluted to produce the goods. I much prefer the older ways with polluting factory in the city, at least everyone could see what it takes to provide each good, and share its cost. The current way of doing things is to ban everything, which force manufacturers to produce elsewhere in the world and import it. Plus we are loosing knowledge in the process.
- 76SlashDolphin 4y agoThe thing is producing a product for the entire world in one place has massive economies of scale vs producing things locally in every other city or even 1 factory per country. While going back to Victorian-era local production would turn cities back into the garbage dumps they once were, I highly doubt it would end up lowering emissions.
- adrianN 4y agoProducing an ICE is also polluting. Producing gasoline is also polluting. This is not an argument against banning ICEs.
- jjav 4y ago> I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back I can't agree, because forceful bans are not the best way to accomplish change. Simply keep improving battery technology to bring prices down and range up and it'll take a natural course once buying an EV becomes cheaper than an ICE car. Implementing bans makes it political and builds resentment which is counterproductive. Building a better product and letting the market decide works so much better.