8 ms·

I used to work for Huawei's storage division. When the sanctions hit, the company could no longer buy hard disks from American and Japanese companies. And there

by unmole 4y ago

I used to work for Huawei's storage division. When the sanctions hit, the company could no longer buy hard disks from American and Japanese companies. And there weren't any Chinese manufacturers either. Flash storage however was easy to procure. So, the product roadmap was thrown away and we pivoted to All-Flash storage.

Y_Y 4y ago
Seagate is officially Irish and does have factories there, maybe they hoped this was sufficient? In any case why not go for a Taiwanese manufacturer?
- nradov 4y ago
  Regardless of where final assembly takes place, if the devices include any US components then they are likely subject to sanctions.
- imglorp 4y ago
  I wonder how much of the mainland static about Taiwan is really about seizing TSMC in particular. It represents too many global IP and fab eggs.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > wonder how much of the mainland static about Taiwan is really about seizing TSMC Virtually none. (It’s not something that can easily be seized.)
    - kjellsbells 4y ago
      I don't know if an adversary would prefer to grab the people of TSMC or the facility, but as a defender that has been thinking about this for a long time, I would imagine that TSMC have contingency plans to get the smart people out and dynamite the facility, no? Somewhat like the story of US soldiers mopping up rocket scientists working for Germany in 1945 and getting them stateside.
      - caycep 4y ago
        granted, there is this "us vs them" mentality, but prior to the whole Xi/nationalist thing, weren't a lot of chip engineers going back and forth, employment-wise, between TSMC, SMIC, and other mainland companies?
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > prior to the whole Xi/nationalist thing, weren't a lot of chip engineers going back and forth, employment-wise, between TSMC, SMIC, and other mainland companies Yes. A free-trade agreement was being negotiated [1]. And the fraction of Taiwanese who identify has both Taiwanese and Chinese has quartered since Xi came to power [2]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/taiwan-china/taiwan-china-aim-to-sign-fta-like-deal-in-2010-idUSTP34984320090713 https://www.reuters.com/article/taiwan-china/taiwan-china-ai... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Is the Taiwanese government not going to evacuate TSMC's personnel outside of the country and launch some artillery on the facilities?
    - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
      > Is the Taiwanese government not going to evacuate TSMC's personnel outside of the country That makes defending Taiwan less desirable strategically speaking. > and launch some artillery on the facilities? You just need to contaminate the facilities with impure outside air and they're most likely ruined for months if not forever; no need to mobilize precious troops to do this.
      - waste_monk 4y ago
        I have heard that the TSMC fab is considered a strategic asset and has demolition charges that Taiwan gov can use if required, but that was just internet scuttlebutt and cannot be considered reliable. That said, I would be very surprised if the fab didn't attract a missile strike from western interests if it did look like China was going to be able overrun Taiwan and capture the fab intact. I would much rather be sure the equipment is destroyed beyond repair (and that ASML cannot provide replacements or repairs) than risk a contaminated fab be put back into service. I'm sure the Chinese gov would be willing to throw a lot of resources at it if it was "only" contaminated and the chance of repair existed.
        ElectricalUnion 4y ago
        > risk a contaminated fab be put back into service You actually most likely can't afford the risk of running a contaminated fab. You just can't get economically viable yields under contamination; if you could, why would all those fabs care about keeping a very clean environment in the first place?
        waste_monk 4y ago
        Sure, I get that. I meant that China has ~1.4 billion people and one of the largest economies in the world. If they really wanted to get a contaminated fab back into operational condition they could throw effectively unlimited manpower and resources into cleaning it up. Thus it would be better to blow the place up and not have to worry about it.
  - YetAnotherNick 4y ago
    Samsung is just 2 years behind TSMC, and is in much more neutral country. Even Intel which is in its worst shape in a while is 4 years behind TSMC and is catching up. I highly doubt loosing 2 years of progress is even a discussion point for the war between two countries. War between China and Taiwan(with US as an ally) will set the world decades or even centuries behind even if nukes are not used. If nukes are used, it will set the world millenia behind.
- unmole 4y ago
  Seagate, Western Digital/Hitachi and Toshiba are the only realistic options.
mardifoufs 4y ago
Is there any reason why HDD were sanctioned but not CPUs? Like why grant AMD and Intel exceptions? Did Huawei have some sort of super strategic use for them?
- DuckFeathers 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    These are pretty tall claims but I'm not finding sources to back them up
    - DuckFeathers 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - filoleg 4y ago
        Ironically enough, that's the exact same line of reasoning that can be used to explain why we don't see media reporting on lizard people running the shadow government. Lizard people run corporations and, by extension, corporate media. Just because you might say that my theory above is superficially less plausible than yours, it doesn't change the fact that both of them have the same amount of supporting evidence.
        DuckFeathers 4y ago
        True. But spiritually speaking, "lizard people" (which refers to the reptilian instincts of the human brains) do seem to run the governments. The people who get to power via wrongful means have too much to lose if they lose that power (maybe their freedom or even their life) and hence the survival instinct (which is what is shared with the reptilian brain) is what primarily acts through people in power. They show behaviors such as the following which is indicative of acting through the reptilian brain: - fight response (eagerness of going to wars) - territoriality (nation states fighting to expand and protect their borders) - sexual instinct (elites connection with Epstein) So, yeah, there may not be physical reptiles living in the Atlantic ocean ruling us, but there sure are spiritual reptiles living in the subconscious ruling us.

by unmole 4y ago

Y_Y 4y ago

Seagate is officially Irish and does have factories there, maybe they hoped this was sufficient? In any case why not go for a Taiwanese manufacturer?

nradov 4y ago
Regardless of where final assembly takes place, if the devices include any US components then they are likely subject to sanctions.
imglorp 4y ago
I wonder how much of the mainland static about Taiwan is really about seizing TSMC in particular. It represents too many global IP and fab eggs.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > wonder how much of the mainland static about Taiwan is really about seizing TSMC Virtually none. (It’s not something that can easily be seized.)
  - kjellsbells 4y ago
    I don't know if an adversary would prefer to grab the people of TSMC or the facility, but as a defender that has been thinking about this for a long time, I would imagine that TSMC have contingency plans to get the smart people out and dynamite the facility, no? Somewhat like the story of US soldiers mopping up rocket scientists working for Germany in 1945 and getting them stateside.
    - caycep 4y ago
      granted, there is this "us vs them" mentality, but prior to the whole Xi/nationalist thing, weren't a lot of chip engineers going back and forth, employment-wise, between TSMC, SMIC, and other mainland companies?
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > prior to the whole Xi/nationalist thing, weren't a lot of chip engineers going back and forth, employment-wise, between TSMC, SMIC, and other mainland companies Yes. A free-trade agreement was being negotiated [1]. And the fraction of Taiwanese who identify has both Taiwanese and Chinese has quartered since Xi came to power [2]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/taiwan-china/taiwan-china-aim-to-sign-fta-like-deal-in-2010-idUSTP34984320090713 https://www.reuters.com/article/taiwan-china/taiwan-china-ai... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Is the Taiwanese government not going to evacuate TSMC's personnel outside of the country and launch some artillery on the facilities?
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    > Is the Taiwanese government not going to evacuate TSMC's personnel outside of the country That makes defending Taiwan less desirable strategically speaking. > and launch some artillery on the facilities? You just need to contaminate the facilities with impure outside air and they're most likely ruined for months if not forever; no need to mobilize precious troops to do this.
    - waste_monk 4y ago
      I have heard that the TSMC fab is considered a strategic asset and has demolition charges that Taiwan gov can use if required, but that was just internet scuttlebutt and cannot be considered reliable. That said, I would be very surprised if the fab didn't attract a missile strike from western interests if it did look like China was going to be able overrun Taiwan and capture the fab intact. I would much rather be sure the equipment is destroyed beyond repair (and that ASML cannot provide replacements or repairs) than risk a contaminated fab be put back into service. I'm sure the Chinese gov would be willing to throw a lot of resources at it if it was "only" contaminated and the chance of repair existed.
      - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
        > risk a contaminated fab be put back into service You actually most likely can't afford the risk of running a contaminated fab. You just can't get economically viable yields under contamination; if you could, why would all those fabs care about keeping a very clean environment in the first place?
        waste_monk 4y ago
        Sure, I get that. I meant that China has ~1.4 billion people and one of the largest economies in the world. If they really wanted to get a contaminated fab back into operational condition they could throw effectively unlimited manpower and resources into cleaning it up. Thus it would be better to blow the place up and not have to worry about it.
- YetAnotherNick 4y ago
  Samsung is just 2 years behind TSMC, and is in much more neutral country. Even Intel which is in its worst shape in a while is 4 years behind TSMC and is catching up. I highly doubt loosing 2 years of progress is even a discussion point for the war between two countries. War between China and Taiwan(with US as an ally) will set the world decades or even centuries behind even if nukes are not used. If nukes are used, it will set the world millenia behind.
unmole 4y ago
Seagate, Western Digital/Hitachi and Toshiba are the only realistic options.

mardifoufs 4y ago

Is there any reason why HDD were sanctioned but not CPUs? Like why grant AMD and Intel exceptions? Did Huawei have some sort of super strategic use for them?

DuckFeathers 4y ago
[flagged]
- hackernewds 4y ago
  These are pretty tall claims but I'm not finding sources to back them up
  - DuckFeathers 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - filoleg 4y ago
      Ironically enough, that's the exact same line of reasoning that can be used to explain why we don't see media reporting on lizard people running the shadow government. Lizard people run corporations and, by extension, corporate media. Just because you might say that my theory above is superficially less plausible than yours, it doesn't change the fact that both of them have the same amount of supporting evidence.
      - DuckFeathers 4y ago
        True. But spiritually speaking, "lizard people" (which refers to the reptilian instincts of the human brains) do seem to run the governments. The people who get to power via wrongful means have too much to lose if they lose that power (maybe their freedom or even their life) and hence the survival instinct (which is what is shared with the reptilian brain) is what primarily acts through people in power. They show behaviors such as the following which is indicative of acting through the reptilian brain: - fight response (eagerness of going to wars) - territoriality (nation states fighting to expand and protect their borders) - sexual instinct (elites connection with Epstein) So, yeah, there may not be physical reptiles living in the Atlantic ocean ruling us, but there sure are spiritual reptiles living in the subconscious ruling us.