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Gezellig – a word that encompasses the heart of Dutch Culture
- raydiatian 4y agoTed Lasso! Relevance!
- aj7 4y agoI’m willing to bet you that the French are more gezellig than the Dutch.
- m000 4y agoI wish Amsterdam weather was also gezellig...
- Aeolun 4y ago2 out of 12 months it’s pretty nice. That said, I moved to a warmer country and while I enjoy the sun, I’m getting really nostalgic for the pleasant Dutch temperatures.
- gbraad 4y agoMild temperatures most of the time throughout the year is something I miss. Sure, winters are longer than needed, but it is not as bad.
- rob74 4y agoLanguages are fascinating! German has an almost identical word ("gesellig" - https://dict.leo.org/german-english/gesellig https://dict.leo.org/german-english/gesellig), but with a different meaning that can easily be translated as "sociable" (referring to a person) most of the time. Looks like the Dutch extended it to places that encourage being sociable?
- gattilorenz 4y agoSimilarly, Germans might find the Dutch usage of "lekker" (lit. "tasty", same root of German "lecker") quite... inconsiderate: it of course applies to food, but it's way common to use it for relaxing, enjoyable activities (you can sleep and sit "lekker", and something can also "go lekker" - meaning it goes well). At least, that's what I made out of, but I welcome a proper explanation from a native speaker!
- Avalaxy 4y agoIn Dutch, lekker also means tasty. But like you said, it also applies to many other things. Even to people (that woman is lekker, as in hot).
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoLanguages need words with specific meaning, and also words that are broad and vague. "lekker" is in the same category as "nice" in English. The imprecision is useful sometimes.
- rob74 4y agoActually in the part of Germany next to the Dutch border, "lecker" already starts being used that way. For example, someone from Cologne might call a nice girl/woman a "lecker Mäd(s)che" (https://verliebtinkoeln-com.translate.goog/die-bedeutung-von-lecker-maedche-in-der-koelschen-sprache/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://verliebtinkoeln-com.translate.goog/die-bedeutung-von...).
- wouldbecouldbe 4y agohahaha well for dutch the way Germans use Geil (horny) is quite funny, using it 5 times per conversation for things you like is quite normal for Germans.
- rapnie 4y agoAnd further with 'ape horny' as Dutch hear it: "Daß ist ja affengeil!" (That's awesome!)
- wouldbecouldbe 4y agoWhat makes it even funnier is it even means horny in German. The young kids just turned it into meaning "cool". So now you have 40+ year olds saying how horny a presenation is in a corporate board room.
- fs111 4y agoIn German it can also mean a place is cosy and vibrant. We use it for more than just people.
- mihaic 4y agoNot a native German speaker, but for me the word "gemutlich" came to mind as their equivalent, at least from what I understood from the article.
- FlyingSnake 4y agoIMO Gemütlich is more closer to "cozy" rather than "Convival" which Gezellig is being used for in Dutch.
- mihaic 4y agoThanks for the clarification.
- pieter_mj 4y agoYou mean convivial (the same word in French, slightly different meaning)
- bedatadriven 4y agoYes convivial is the perfect translation for gezellig. I don't understand why articles about gezelligheid always claim that it is somehow untranslateable!
- Fnoord 4y agoGemoedelijk is probably the Dutch word which is linguistically related to the one you mention. Interestingly, it has no megative connotation, but it won't be a word used much in randstad (the densely populated ~West of The Netherlands). So it is by definition not as popular as gezellig.
- somedude895 4y ago> be translated as "sociable" (referring to a person) most of the time. Gesellig is also used for occasions, like a geselliger Abend as also listed on the Leo link. In Switzerland it's sometimes also used for places like a geselliges Restaurant. From that perspective I use the German word in pretty much the same way. Side note: The adjective likely comes from "Gesellschaft," which can mean "society" but also "company."
- nwellnhof 4y ago> In Switzerland it's sometimes also used for places like a geselliges Restaurant. In Bavaria and probably the rest of (Southern?) Germany as well. I doubt there's much difference between the German and Dutch words.
- peterpost2 4y agoI wonder if this is written by an actual Dutch person. About half the examples make no sense, they are using the word it as an adjective for people, something I don't think I've seen Dutch people(including myself) do Also the author complains of the overcommercialization of the Danish Hygge, pretty sure gezellig is there already.
- balsam 4y agoCan always move on to Koselig, even shorter distance to ‘cozy’
- jillesvangurp 4y agoThis article gets a bit closer to the core of the matter: https://directdutch.com/2013/05/word-of-the-day-gezellig/ https://directdutch.com/2013/05/word-of-the-day-gezellig/ As a Dutch person, worth pointing out that we Dutch people like using words in an ironic sense. So using the word gezellig in situations are anything but gezellig is ironic and therefore something people might do. But it adds to the confusion. But basically it usually refers to situations, locations, or meetings of people being either gezellig (enjoyable, agreeable, etc.) or the opposite, ongezellig.
- stinos 4y agoSo using the word gezellig in situations are anything but gezellig is ironic For me (in Belgium) I hear and use it in that ironic/mocking sense way more often. Whereas indeed in the Netherlands it is super common to use it in the normal sense.
- Fnoord 4y agoYet, you would not assume the word gemoedelijk is used in an ironic or sarcastic context. Often its used to ensure it is explained positive. The atmosphere in the Arena of the match Ajax - Feyenoord is gemoedelijk vs (ouderwets) gezellig.
- mpol 4y agoAnd sometimes, things can be too gezellig. Like hanging out in a karaoke bar. Or going to a Dutch music festival (Piratenfestival). Not really my cup of tea, way "te gezellig".
- tinco 4y agoCompanionable. It's the most direct translation, and it's very close to how we use the word "gezellig". We just use the word a lot more frequently. The warm feeling you get when you are with friendly company, even if that's just your own company, that's what we call companionable and it's a theme that's central to Dutch culture. If you'll agree Christmas is the most companionable time of the year, I think you're very close to understanding to why the Dutch want everything to be companionable.
- emmelaich 4y agoI'd suggest "convivial" is a little closer.
- tinco 4y agoOh interesting, yeah at least the dictionary seems to hit all the keywords except friendly, hitting social instead which might or might not be accurate. "Living-together-ness" would be the literal translation, which is a bit weird but if that's how it's used then at least in use it might be a lot closer than companionable.
- andrepd 4y agoFrom the perspective of a southern European, neither "convivial" nor "companionable" are the words that spring to mind when I think of Dutch people :)
- TheRealPomax 4y agoFrom the perspective of a Dutchman: same. "Gezellig" really doesn't sum up the heart of Dutch culture in the slightest - not to mention it's old, if you show up at a party and someone goes "gezellig", it's time to leave, this is your grandparents' party. Or you have some extremely boring middle class "huisje boompje beestje" ("buy a house, plant a tree, get a pet" to refer to settling down and never aspiring to anything after) friends, of course.
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- francislavoie 4y agoAh yes, another fellow Ted Lasso viewer. For context, this word was a key plot point in this last night's episode of the show.
- AlbertCory 4y agothis was one of the best episodes they've ever had.
- francislavoie 4y agoThe show never misses. I love it so much. So wholesome, always puts me in a good mood.
- oxfeed65261 4y agoI was just blown away. So many lovely, uplifting, funny, true-feeling storylines, balanced so well, leading to a satisfying and greater-plot-relevant conclusion and an absolutely perfect musical finale singalong (Bob Marley’s “Three Little Birds”) to wrap it in a bow. And (spoiler) no sex or drugs, teases to the contrary notwithstanding (not that there’s anything wrong with sex or drugs, but that’s not what this show is about). They did. Yes, they did.
- ValentineC 4y agoI do wonder what the tea was that Beard tried making.
- georgebcrawford 4y agoMushroom.
- prepend 4y agoDud batch.
- myspy 4y agoWatched a little bit of the episode earlier and came to the same conclusion :D
- Gordonjcp 4y agoAha, the new "hygge"! I was wondering what was going to come along next...
- balsam 4y agoIt’s a family of North Sea words at various stages of commercialization/gentrification: koselig,gesellig,hygge,cosagach,cozy.
- frantathefranta 4y agoMany people got that hygge book, but it's funny when you actually go to Denmark and find out most of it is actually made up. Hygge is real, but it's being pushed way more now that it's become a global word.
- sprkwd 4y agoWe have a new build housing estate not far away called Hygge Park or something similar. Really dates it to a moment in time.
- Tade0 4y agoI got a taste of this pop-culture version in my corner of the world a few years ago, where apparently it meant furniture in all white, fake white bricks on the walls and, above all, offensive amounts of 3000-4000K light from LEDs.
- DonHopkins 4y agoThe Dutch would be crazy not to package up their gezellig coffeeshop and brown cafe culture, decor, and furniture in shipping containers for export, and deploy them in American states and other countries that have legalized cannabis, the same way the Irish package and ship entire prefabricated pubs around the world. https://medium.com/@Thrillist/how-the-irish-ship-entire-pubs-around-the-world-2d541a349fc5 https://medium.com/@Thrillist/how-the-irish-ship-entire-pubs... >How the Irish ship entire pubs around the world >You may not have been to Ireland, but you’ve still pulled up a stool to a Dublin-made bar counter.
- alexfromapex 4y agoSeems like we'd say "chill" in the American English vernacular?
- jbverschoor 4y agoNope.. we also use chill. Gezellig is different
- alexfromapex 4y agoYeah it’s a different word but the meaning seems very close if it can be substituted in 95%+ of contexts. Curious to hear an example where it doesn’t fit.
- vimy 4y agoIt’s more about the feeling. I would never use chill when something is gezellig. It feels different. I think cozy is a better English word.
- alexfromapex 4y agoOkay, sounds like you're making a completely subjective assessment, based on your own preferences. Totally fine, but does not mean I'm wrong. One thing that would really help would be if there were a definitive case where it did not fit.
- stinos 4y agoDo you speak Dutch? Anyway that 95% number seems also fetched from your personal experience, because the meaning of 'chill', in my experience, is just too different for that. Here's an example which (again, for me) doesn't quite fit: when talking about a party with music and dancing and saying it is 'chill' we'd mean that it was relaxed, enough space to dance, no drunk idiots, fun overall, and so on. We might add to it that it was 'gezellig', not use instead, but then we'd mean there were also lot of friends around and/or new friends being made. While there's a link with being chill, they could just as well be orthogonal. Like 'it was gezellig but too bad it was so crowded' means it wasn't chill at all.
- christkv 4y agoNorwegians use the word "koselig" for pretty much everything positive lol.
- anordal 4y agoYes. I can't take the "untranslatable" claim for good fish when the article doesn't address this obvious objection: Any Norwegian or Danish reader can see that it's the same word as "koselig", likely even etymologically.
- art3m 4y agoMy favorite word in Dutch is morning greeting: goeiemorgen. In Russian it sounds like dick-morgen which is ridiculous if you're native Russian speaker. This song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9H-ffphZf8&ab_channel=EurovisionGOLD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9H-ffphZf8&ab_channel=Eurov...) even went viral in Russia because of this (goeiedag sounds like bullshit also). P.S. Link from the post doesn't open in Russia ("Country blocked") and I had to use VPN to read it lol. It's ONGEZELLIG to block someone read article about cozy and ecologic living.
- tokai 4y ago[flagged]
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- unconed 4y agoLittle known fact! "Whataboutism" is an expression in English which means "I realize your example undercuts my argument, for it reveals it is not based on consistent, defensible principles, so I will just slap a label on it and declare it irrelevant to the discussion."
- deserialized 4y ago2 things can be bad at once
- vanger 4y agoInteresting fact - there is a russian word for the feeling you are experiencing - when you feel bad because you understand that your opponent is having a point, you feel bad about it but instead of admitting it you are trying to be sarcastic - it is called "prigorayet" and is always associated with burning sensation just below your lower back.
- jbverschoor 4y agoI’m surprised they don’t talk about “gezelschap”, from which the word is derived. That means companion/companionship.
- FlyingSnake 4y agoThis sounds suspiciously close to "Gesellschaft" in German. Are they related somewhere in the upstream branches?
- vajrabum 4y agoWiktionary says yes. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gezelschap https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gezelschap
- stinos 4y ago'derived' isn't the correct term here possibly. More like they both derive from the same common term 'gezel' (which is also a word on it's own meaning 'buddy' or 'fellow traveller' or 'fellow worker'). In gezel-lig the 'lig' is for making it an adjective. In gezel-schap the 'schap' ('schaft' in German) indicates something like 'more people' or 'company'.
- jbverschoor 4y agoyeah, it's a level higher up "metgezel" for example
- gbraad 4y agooh I hate this word; as it is also often used in a fake way. "Gezellig hé"
- vanger 4y agoMy favorite Dutch eyes is Swaffelen (or zwaffelen or dick-slap) is a Dutch term meaning to hit one's soft or semi-hard penis - often repeatedly - against an object or another person's body. Swaffelen was named as the word of the year in the Netherlands and Belgium in 2008.
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- icoder 4y agoDon't forget the Taj Mahal 'gate'
- hestefisk 4y agoIs this like the Danish “hyggelig”?
- alentred 4y ago"Enjoyable" ? The article makes an impression that "gezellig" is somewhat close to French "savoir-vivre", "la vie est belle", Italian "dolce vita", and maybe even Latin "carpe diem"? It looks like multiple cultures have similar appreciation to spending one's time well, but also focus on different aspects of what "well" means.
- jeroenhd 4y ago> The article makes an impression that "gezellig" is somewhat close to French "savoir-vivre", "la vie est belle", Italian "dolce vita", and maybe even Latin "carpe diem"? I don't speak those languages, but I don't think those words are an apt translation. The word doesn't really describe a way of life, or the enjoyment of life in particular, it's more of a vibe or an emotional state or an emotional association to a certain place, event, or situation. The English word "convivial" seems to come pretty close, though from the example sentences I can find I still think the meaning is slightly different. I find it quite difficult to accurately describe my perception of the word "gezellig" without anecdotes of shared experiences. I believe savoir-vivre and dolce vita are similar in that way; there are direct translations, but they all miss some element of what the original meant.
- louwrentius 4y agoNo, "gezellig" is like just being with a bunch of friends having fun. Everybody is happy talking to each other, mood is great, maybe some food and drinks available. At least as a native that's how I always interpret it. It's always in a setting with people.
- Fnoord 4y agoVakantieman! Gezellig heh? (Rolleyes)
- qikInNdOutReply 4y agoGesselig in german is a word for "company loving/loving it lively" and gemuetlich is a word for "homely/cozy". Its a funny case of words shifting meaning, while still sounding similar.
- ur-whale 4y agoSomeone's been watching Ted Lasso.
- mindcrime 4y agoHuh. In that case, I'd say "Gezellig" is pretty gnarly[1]. [1]: "gnarly" being one of those English words that can mean almost anything depending on context. In particular, similar to "Gezellig" it can mean both something like "very good / excellent" AND "horrible/bad". It's also frequently used to mean something like "difficult/dangerous/challenging".
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- diego_moita 4y agoOn the topic "untranslatable words that express a culture" here are my favourites: - Italian: words that express refined craftsmanship: sprezatura, virtuoso, capo-lavoro, affresco, al-dente, allegro/adagio, ... - French: life must be appreciated to its full: joie-de-vivre, bon-vivant, coquette, lingerie, gourmet, finesse, chic, .. - Japanese: a very sharp capability to appreciate what others can't: wabi-sabi, umami, satori, ... - English: a very ingrained respect for democracy and its values: accountability, grassroots/astroturf, pork-barrel, bullying, harassment, lobying, ... - German: a clear eyed perception that the world is dangerous and mean: torchlusspanic, schadenfreude,... - Brazilian Portuguese: all that matters are emotional and physical connections: cafuné, xamego, sacanagem, ...
- ravedave5 4y agoI think craic from Irish would fit into this. Not sure if there's a broader category there.
- beAbU 4y agoI tend to agree. Im not Dutch, but my language has the same word. My understanding is that craic means to have a good time with good people, and that's exactly what gesellig is. Gesellig might have broader application in this context though, as an event can be gesellig, a person can be gesellig. It's am adjective. It seems craic is used for all sorts of other terms which do not apply here.
- selimthegrim 4y agoThe word is of Scots origin, apparently.
- arethuza 4y agoI'm Scottish - so I'm tempted to say "dreich".... :-) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50476008 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50476008
- rnoorda 4y ago
- dkural 4y agoKeyif in Turkish comes to mind.
- MuffinFlavored 4y agohow different are lekker / leuk / gezellig?
- jeroenhd 4y agoLekker ("tasty") and leuk ("fun") are similar when used in a vague sense, though when you use which word is hard to describe. I think the difference is similar to "liberty" and "freedom" in English: they mean pretty much the same thing, but you wouldn't say "liberty of speech". Gezellig is different, it doesn't just mean "good" or "nice", it evokes a very specific feeling.
- gbraad 4y agoWhile lekker is tasty, it can be used to say 'lekker weertje' to refer to nice weather. Same for 'leuk kleurtje' which means nice color. Do note that inost of the cases the diminutive form with - tje is used
- icoder 4y agoTo me, gezellig(heid) could never happen without the company of others, as opposed to leuk and lekker (the latter being the biggest outlier to me, just describing food or perhaps physical attractiveness of a person).
- vrglvrglvrgl 4y ago[dead]
- yawpitch 4y agoInteresting… seems that Dutch gezellig is something similar to the Danish notion of hygge, but without the sense of “an almost pathological taste for Poul Henningsen lamps as a means to tame whatever it was that drove Danish men to spend their lives Viking across the Atlantic”. But then my experience in Denmark was very narrowly spent with my ex-wife’s family there, so maybe I’d have gotten hygge with it eventually.
- mallomarmeasle 4y agoI am a native English speaker, and may be wrong about this, but I believe that the use of "de nada" from Spanish, and "de rien" in French to mean "you're welcome" suffer from similar loss in translation. Do not the former phrases imply that thanks is not needed?
- morkalork 4y agoThe English equivalent is responding to someone saying thank you with "hey, it's nothing"
- aidenn0 4y agoA close English idiom might be "Don't worry about it" or "no problem" in the place of "you're welcome." Even "You're welcome" implies this as in "You're welcome [to ask for such a favor in general]"
- mallomarmeasle 4y agoThat is an interesting implied addendum. However, there still seems to be an acknowledged favor granted, while the French and Spanish phrases I understand to mean that no favor was granted and no thanks are needed.
- nerdbert 4y agoNo worries, mate.
- glitchc 4y agoEnglish has a few: cool, hot, dope, chill, lit...
- Lammy 4y agoI learned this word from Studio Massa https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXU4Ir4-8GPeP4lKT9aevhyhbSoHR04M https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXU4Ir4-8GPeP4lKT9ae...
- brokenkebaby 4y agoThere's no such thing as "untranslatable words", and every text which claims existence of one, immediately translates it. The linked story is no different, of course.
- crote 4y agoThe problem with translations is that they are not a 1:1 mapping. When you translate, you look for a word with a similar meaning. For some words there simply isn't a close-enough word in the target language to be meaningful. It is like trying to map integers to floats. You can get a close approximation, but a conversion doesn't always make sense.
- brokenkebaby 4y agoTranslation is not a process of mapping a word (language A) to a word (language B). Translation is by dictionary definition a process of expressing sense/meaning of text with a different language. If a Dutch word can be only exressed by a full page of text in English, it's just fine, it's still translation! The correct CS analogy is therefore not float to int conversion, but transpiling Pascal to ASM: the fact that one call in the former requires a bunch of assembler commands doesn't mean it's untranslatable.
- christogreeff 4y agoThe word "gesellig" in Afrikaans (daughter language of Dutch) pretty much conveys the same meaning as gezellig.
- DonHopkins 4y ago"Woord van het jaar 2008" Swaffelen (of zwaffelen) is het aantikken met de penis, vaak met herhaalde bewegingen, van andermans lichaam of een voorwerp. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaffelen https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaffelen
- s3p 4y agoWhat a coincidence, I heard this word for the first time on the latest episode of Ted Lasso, which released yesterday.
- uwagar 4y ago[flagged]
- getoffmyyawn 4y agoAs a foreigner 10 years into living in the Netherlands, I find this article a bit shallow. Yes gezellig is a word and concept I frequently encounter but to say it encompasses the heart of Dutch Culture makes no sense to me. I think only someone who hasn't spent a lot of time with Dutch people would say something like that. Sort of like saying the word "awesome" encompasses the heart of American culture.
- Scarblac 4y agoWait until you hear about the Dutch concept of "niksen" ( https://time.com/5622094/what-is-niksen/ https://time.com/5622094/what-is-niksen/)... Its a type of fluff article that you can find about many mundane words from around the world, trying to make them into some wonderful concept that's just what the US is missing. I guess the authors of such articles need to pay their bills too, but it's a bit surprising to see one on here.
- sn41 4y agoYes... like hygge is the secret to happiness. (Or was it haggis?) /s Also, there is ikigai. And sisu. I guess the real secret to happiness is socialized medicine, which kind of takes away some of the non-hyggeikigaisisu nature of existence elsewhere.
- DrNosferatu 4y agoMysig? Hygge? Koselig? Kawaii?
- sakerbos 4y agoI would liken it to the word "lekker" in Afrikaans, e.g. "Nou Gaan ons lekker braai".