4 ms·

For a bit of a quantitative analysis on this, we had fun doing surveying programmers here, see Table 7 @ https://lmeyerov.github.io/projects/socioplt/papers/oop

For a bit of a quantitative analysis on this, we had fun doing surveying programmers here, see Table 7 @ https://lmeyerov.github.io/projects/socioplt/papers/oopsla2013.pdf https://lmeyerov.github.io/projects/socioplt/papers/oopsla20... Ex: Programmers value types much more for documentation vs preventing bugs. I had not expected that answer!

pansa2 4y ago
> I enjoy using static types: 18% (+/- 8) That number seems to be from 2013. I imagine it would be much higher today - 10 years ago dynamic typing was at the peak of its hype cycle, and right now it seems to be in the Trough of Disillusionment.
- lmeyerov 4y ago
  That's a legit hypothesis! Speaking as a scientist, I'd love to see a round 2 of this work to see how much things are the same vs different. The premise for the work was doing more serious sociological methods could help understand tough phenomena here & suggest new solutions, so bringing in longitudinal analyses would be fascinating. FWIW, if I remember right: - Languages like Java, C++, .NET were the most popular. Maybe iOS/Android apps too? - Buzz around then were Scala + Java (big data), Haskell, Elm, D, and the beginnings of Rust. - TypeScript was already a year or two in as well. But population-wise, probably still niche. - That was probably also some of the heaviest Node Nowadays, we also see heavy rises in dynamic languages: - Professional data scientists using Python & R. I think Python has become the #1 language for new folks? - Go looks like a statically typed language... until you compare it to modern C++, D, Rust, etc So I wouldn't be surprised to see a shift.. but then again, not at all obvious how much, and especially controlling for selection bias..
IshKebab 4y ago
Yeah I've found when trying (and failing mostly) to convince Python developers to use type hints that they often think it's only to fix bugs and then resist because a) of course their code doesn't have bugs, and b) they've already written their code and discovered lots of bugs painfully at runtime, so they wouldn't get most of the bug-finding benefits anyway. They never appreciate that type hints make code easier to read and write and navigate and understand and maintain. Often it's Vim users that have never used a good IDE.
- jessekv 4y ago
  Haha I was one of those vim users. Lately I've found sublime text with pyright is an effective setup for python development. Electon-based IDE seem to require constant access to a power outlet, at least on my laptop.
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    Honest question: Are you coding in a tent, outside of civilization? I've never understood this "battery argument".
    - jessekv 4y ago
      Not sure its an honest question. But sometimes I work on the train. Or in the cute coffee place down the street.
      - still_grokking 4y ago
        It was a honest question. (But got down-voted nevertheless… :-)) I'm not a fan of Electon-based "apps" either, as they're very problematic in all kinds of ways. But I never could, and still can't, understand the "battery argument". Battery life is not the biggest issue with Electon (and actually IntelliJ is even a greater power sucker). The point is: Most people doing software development never "work" anywhere where there's no power outlet! Most modern trains have power outlets. Likely every coffee place in the western world has power outlets. If you're not an a safari, or in the forests, or desert there always will be a power outlet near you. So the whole premise of "I need 10h of battery life" is moot. You actually never need that! Even if you work sometimes on the go the battery needs only to last as long as you're moving form power outlet to power outlet. Everything else boils down to: People these days are even too lazy plug in a charger…
        jessekv 4y ago
        Haha you are right that I typically am working within 30 feet of an outlet. But not usually seated within 6 feet of an outlet. Maybe we can invent wireless power to go along with the wireless ethernet? Personally I would prefer to just use less power. Chips have never been more efficient, and batteries have never been bigger. With the right software, even an older laptop can last all day.

pansa2 4y ago

> I enjoy using static types: 18% (+/- 8) That number seems to be from 2013. I imagine it would be much higher today - 10 years ago dynamic typing was at the peak of its hype cycle, and right now it seems to be in the Trough of Disillusionment.

lmeyerov 4y ago
That's a legit hypothesis! Speaking as a scientist, I'd love to see a round 2 of this work to see how much things are the same vs different. The premise for the work was doing more serious sociological methods could help understand tough phenomena here & suggest new solutions, so bringing in longitudinal analyses would be fascinating. FWIW, if I remember right: - Languages like Java, C++, .NET were the most popular. Maybe iOS/Android apps too? - Buzz around then were Scala + Java (big data), Haskell, Elm, D, and the beginnings of Rust. - TypeScript was already a year or two in as well. But population-wise, probably still niche. - That was probably also some of the heaviest Node Nowadays, we also see heavy rises in dynamic languages: - Professional data scientists using Python & R. I think Python has become the #1 language for new folks? - Go looks like a statically typed language... until you compare it to modern C++, D, Rust, etc So I wouldn't be surprised to see a shift.. but then again, not at all obvious how much, and especially controlling for selection bias..

IshKebab 4y ago

Yeah I've found when trying (and failing mostly) to convince Python developers to use type hints that they often think it's only to fix bugs and then resist because a) of course their code doesn't have bugs, and b) they've already written their code and discovered lots of bugs painfully at runtime, so they wouldn't get most of the bug-finding benefits anyway. They never appreciate that type hints make code easier to read and write and navigate and understand and maintain. Often it's Vim users that have never used a good IDE.

jessekv 4y ago
Haha I was one of those vim users. Lately I've found sublime text with pyright is an effective setup for python development. Electon-based IDE seem to require constant access to a power outlet, at least on my laptop.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  Honest question: Are you coding in a tent, outside of civilization? I've never understood this "battery argument".
  - jessekv 4y ago
    Not sure its an honest question. But sometimes I work on the train. Or in the cute coffee place down the street.
    - still_grokking 4y ago
      It was a honest question. (But got down-voted nevertheless… :-)) I'm not a fan of Electon-based "apps" either, as they're very problematic in all kinds of ways. But I never could, and still can't, understand the "battery argument". Battery life is not the biggest issue with Electon (and actually IntelliJ is even a greater power sucker). The point is: Most people doing software development never "work" anywhere where there's no power outlet! Most modern trains have power outlets. Likely every coffee place in the western world has power outlets. If you're not an a safari, or in the forests, or desert there always will be a power outlet near you. So the whole premise of "I need 10h of battery life" is moot. You actually never need that! Even if you work sometimes on the go the battery needs only to last as long as you're moving form power outlet to power outlet. Everything else boils down to: People these days are even too lazy plug in a charger…
      - jessekv 4y ago
        Haha you are right that I typically am working within 30 feet of an outlet. But not usually seated within 6 feet of an outlet. Maybe we can invent wireless power to go along with the wireless ethernet? Personally I would prefer to just use less power. Chips have never been more efficient, and batteries have never been bigger. With the right software, even an older laptop can last all day.