9 ms·

How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? If only we could give -10 days notice.

by yebyen 4y ago

dilyevsky 4y ago
> If only we could give -10 days notice Don't let your dreams be dreams!
AlwaysRock 4y ago
Then you give -10 days notice. 2 weeks is a nicety and not legally required in the USA. Probably not required in many other places as well. It's unfortunate but I've never had a manager get too upset about it.
- 93po 4y ago
  Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. I don't know why it's an expectation that employees would give notice without any reciprocation.
  - vikingerik 4y ago
    0 day notice and no severance is unusual, at least for skilled professional jobs in the US. It does happen, but usually only for some unusual circumstance, like some kind of employee misbehavior or a sudden financial calamity for the company. Two weeks notice by the employee or severance by the employer is the most common case on both sides, probably for roughly 80% or so of professional jobs including all of my own. Of course it does suck to be in the outlying 20%, and the anecdotes will trend towards reporting that case, but is the minority. Most actors on both sides behave well, even if there is a substantial minority of problems. (Edit since some replies seem to have the wrong idea - termination effective immediately without notice is common, but usually there is severance pay except in cases of misconduct or disaster.)
    - AlwaysRock 4y ago
      I've never had notice of a firing or severance so I don't know how common it is.
    - 93po 4y ago
      i have worked full-time at 6 different companies in engineering and management roles (admittedly none larger than ~300-500 people) and this wasn't the case for anyone at any of them, and have also never heard anecdotes from people in my life in general about this happening to them. i don't not-believe you, but I would be super surprised if the 80% figure is accurate the more common thing i've seen time and again is someone giving two week notice and then being told to not bother with the last two weeks (and not getting paid for it either). after one of my employers did this to a coworker i liked who was relying on that final paycheck for rent, i quit a couple months later with 0 notice "because it seems like you guys don't do 2 week notice here". I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down
      - RussianCow 4y ago
        > I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down I obviously don't know anything about the company, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet by leaving.
    - RussianCow 4y ago
      Anecdotally, I have never heard of a US company giving two weeks notice for a termination of any kind. The vast majority of terminations I've seen are immediate, but I've also seen companies give termination dates in the (relatively) far future to employees (generally a couple months, but I've seen 1-2 years). Severance is also only common in large organizations. I've seen few small startups or bootstrapped companies pay severance when letting people go.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        Once here too. We were told the company was shrinking by almost half once we hit 1.0 on our project, which was still six weeks away. We would get extra severance if we stayed and if we hit the deadline.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. That is not typical nor the norm. Most companies have established PiP policies, and severance even in the cases of "for cause" terminations (though that is rarer) "Fire with 0 day notice and no severance" is more likely to be found at startups, and/or small owner led companies with no real policies, or HR Depts.
    - ido 4y ago
      Don't know what the law is like in most states in the US but in the EU if the employee has been with the company for longer than 6 months it wouldn't even be legal to fire with 0 notice & no severance - generally companies wants you out asap but continue paying your salary for the minimums require by law. In my experience at least 2 weeks and more commonly 1+ months (I've seen people get 3 months, that have worked at the company for several years). This of course doesn't apply if the employee did something like outright breaking the law or the terms of their contract (rare).
      - mousetree 4y ago
        I think it goes without saying that the EU is different. Here in Germany, in fact things are problematic in the other direction. For the last 2 hires I made, their previous company forced them to work through their 3 month notice period.
        Jare 4y ago
        That's becoming more and more widespread. It's idiotic and counterproductive but apparently companies love some fake sense of security.
        ido 4y ago
        I think this is more for "traditional" companies, I've never seen a startup here (Berlin) do that in the 10 years I've been living here.
  - msm_ 4y ago
    > Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. This is only true in the US.
- occamrazor 4y ago
  In many places the notice period is enforceable, with a standard period of three to six months for senior positions.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Yeah that my experience outside of the US. And it’s kinda nice. Less rushed.
  - irrational 4y ago
    What places?
    - knowhy 4y ago
      In Germany at least 4 weeks depending on how long you have been with the company up to 7 months.
    - Shaanie 4y ago
      Three months is fairly common in Sweden, and longer than that isn't all that rare (often depends on how long you've worked at the company).
    - skeletal88 4y ago
      Other countriesin the world, besides the US. In European countries you can't just tell someone tonnit come tomorrow and not pay anything. Sure you csn tell them to not come anymore if you want to keep your secrets or whatever but the company has to pay for this notice period like the person was working there. When I or colleagues have changed jobs then we have given a month or more notice, continued working etc. Only when someone is fired for total incompetence or just not showing up you don't want to see them anymore ever in the office so the company pays for the notice period time.
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      Varies by province in Canada but generally there is a fixed amount of time you need to be at the company before they can just kick you out. For example in Alberta if you've been with an employer longer than 2 years you must give them 2 weeks. They can terminate you immediately after you resign, but they own you 2 weeks of pay. Likewise, if the company lays you off, they have to give you up to 8-weeks notice depending on how many years you were with the company; 10+ years warrants the full 8-weeks, while 2-4 years in service gets you 2-weeks. These are also mandatory minimums; some companies or employees with contracts or collective agreements may get / offer more. Plenty of loopholes there, like for "just cause", and some industries are "exempted by custom" or by law, like construction or forestry. * https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx
- irrational 4y ago
  At my company, there is no 2 weeks. The day you give your two weeks notice is your last day. We might pay you for those two weeks, depending on circumstances, but your building and network access is cut off within the hour. So, I personally would not give my notice until the day I actually want to be my last day.
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    This is pretty common. Even more so outside of tech. I did sales for a while and this was normal.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. My impression is that two weeks notice with continued access is pretty standard so long as you're leaving on good terms.
    - Supermancho 4y ago
      > That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. Many companies are essentially antagonistic with all IT resources. It's very common where positions are not well paid or the company is not tech-centric, eg Mike Ferry Organization
    - grayhatter 4y ago
      his username is literally irrational... kinda makes sense
    - chihuahua 4y ago
      At Microsoft, the standard practice is that if you say you're leaving to take a job a company they consider a competitor, they cut off all your access at the end of the day, even if your manager wants you to stick around for knowledge transfer. If it's not a competitor, it's up to you how much notice you want to give. If you say you're leaving but don't say who your next employer is, they assume it's a competitor. Facebook was classified as a competitor, Amazon was not.
JamesBarney 4y ago
You push back the start date until they've finished that process. It's a common request, I've made it several times, my wife has made it several times and it's always been granted in my experience.
phpisthebest 4y ago
I have never worked for a company that does the background checks, drug screens, etc on your start date, Typical process that I have had both as employee and a manager is 1. Offer Letter 2. Offer Accepted 3. Pre-Employment Activities start. Start Date is set 2 weeks out 4. Pre-Employment Activities Completed 1 Week out 5. New Employee Starts. It would/should not be an issue for an incoming employee to request a start day 2 week after Pre-Employment Activities are cleared if they wanted to give notice
- RussianCow 4y ago
  I don't think it's that uncommon. I have personally worked at two companies that didn't do the background check until after employment (which I would never do again), and I've heard this anecdote a few times from others.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    hmm I know for some position there has been a high first day no show rate, I wonder if that is what drives that position? Background checks while not super expensive are not cheap either and if you have a high number of people noping out before the first day I could see where they would want to mitigate those costs. With the changes in drug laws, and this I have seen some companies starting to forgo pre-employment drug screens, which IMO is a good thing. I am not sure what value most of these Pre-Employment checks provide anyway really.
  - maxlamb 4y ago
    Were these companies startups or outside the U.S.? I’ve never heard of a big company doing a background check after start date, that makes no sense.
    - licebmi__at__ 4y ago
      Bank of America did this for outside US contractors.
    - RussianCow 4y ago
max51 4y ago
>How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? You remind them that they better finish their background check and sign the final documents fast if they want you on that date. Whatever is the minimum notice period you have to give your current job (eg. 2 weeks), the countdown starts after you get the real signed offer from the future job. you shouldn't risk fucking up your career over loyalty for a job that has not even hired you yet. If they want that loyalty, they need to first sign the papers that makes you an official part of their team.
- kadoban 4y ago
  > Whatever is the minimum notice period you have to give your current job (eg. 2 weeks), the countdown starts after you get the real signed offer from the future job. At least in the US, I know of no requirement for 2 weeks notice, anywhere. It's just considered polite. > If they want that loyalty, they need to first sign the papers that makes you an official part of their team. Again in the US, I know of no papers that I've ever had from a company that guaranteed anything important. You might end up with something guaranteeing moving expenses or something, but they can still fire you on day 1, if you even make it that far.

How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? If only we could give -10 days notice.

by yebyen 4y ago

How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? If only we could give -10 days notice.

dilyevsky 4y ago

> If only we could give -10 days notice Don't let your dreams be dreams!

AlwaysRock 4y ago

Then you give -10 days notice. 2 weeks is a nicety and not legally required in the USA. Probably not required in many other places as well. It's unfortunate but I've never had a manager get too upset about it.

93po 4y ago
Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. I don't know why it's an expectation that employees would give notice without any reciprocation.
- vikingerik 4y ago
  0 day notice and no severance is unusual, at least for skilled professional jobs in the US. It does happen, but usually only for some unusual circumstance, like some kind of employee misbehavior or a sudden financial calamity for the company. Two weeks notice by the employee or severance by the employer is the most common case on both sides, probably for roughly 80% or so of professional jobs including all of my own. Of course it does suck to be in the outlying 20%, and the anecdotes will trend towards reporting that case, but is the minority. Most actors on both sides behave well, even if there is a substantial minority of problems. (Edit since some replies seem to have the wrong idea - termination effective immediately without notice is common, but usually there is severance pay except in cases of misconduct or disaster.)
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    I've never had notice of a firing or severance so I don't know how common it is.
  - 93po 4y ago
    i have worked full-time at 6 different companies in engineering and management roles (admittedly none larger than ~300-500 people) and this wasn't the case for anyone at any of them, and have also never heard anecdotes from people in my life in general about this happening to them. i don't not-believe you, but I would be super surprised if the 80% figure is accurate the more common thing i've seen time and again is someone giving two week notice and then being told to not bother with the last two weeks (and not getting paid for it either). after one of my employers did this to a coworker i liked who was relying on that final paycheck for rent, i quit a couple months later with 0 notice "because it seems like you guys don't do 2 week notice here". I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down
    - RussianCow 4y ago
      > I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down I obviously don't know anything about the company, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet by leaving.
  - RussianCow 4y ago
    Anecdotally, I have never heard of a US company giving two weeks notice for a termination of any kind. The vast majority of terminations I've seen are immediate, but I've also seen companies give termination dates in the (relatively) far future to employees (generally a couple months, but I've seen 1-2 years). Severance is also only common in large organizations. I've seen few small startups or bootstrapped companies pay severance when letting people go.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      Once here too. We were told the company was shrinking by almost half once we hit 1.0 on our project, which was still six weeks away. We would get extra severance if we stayed and if we hit the deadline.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. That is not typical nor the norm. Most companies have established PiP policies, and severance even in the cases of "for cause" terminations (though that is rarer) "Fire with 0 day notice and no severance" is more likely to be found at startups, and/or small owner led companies with no real policies, or HR Depts.
  - ido 4y ago
    Don't know what the law is like in most states in the US but in the EU if the employee has been with the company for longer than 6 months it wouldn't even be legal to fire with 0 notice & no severance - generally companies wants you out asap but continue paying your salary for the minimums require by law. In my experience at least 2 weeks and more commonly 1+ months (I've seen people get 3 months, that have worked at the company for several years). This of course doesn't apply if the employee did something like outright breaking the law or the terms of their contract (rare).
    - mousetree 4y ago
      I think it goes without saying that the EU is different. Here in Germany, in fact things are problematic in the other direction. For the last 2 hires I made, their previous company forced them to work through their 3 month notice period.
      - Jare 4y ago
        That's becoming more and more widespread. It's idiotic and counterproductive but apparently companies love some fake sense of security.
        ido 4y ago
        I think this is more for "traditional" companies, I've never seen a startup here (Berlin) do that in the 10 years I've been living here.
- msm_ 4y ago
  > Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. This is only true in the US.
occamrazor 4y ago
In many places the notice period is enforceable, with a standard period of three to six months for senior positions.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Yeah that my experience outside of the US. And it’s kinda nice. Less rushed.
- irrational 4y ago
  What places?
  - knowhy 4y ago
    In Germany at least 4 weeks depending on how long you have been with the company up to 7 months.
  - Shaanie 4y ago
    Three months is fairly common in Sweden, and longer than that isn't all that rare (often depends on how long you've worked at the company).
  - skeletal88 4y ago
    Other countriesin the world, besides the US. In European countries you can't just tell someone tonnit come tomorrow and not pay anything. Sure you csn tell them to not come anymore if you want to keep your secrets or whatever but the company has to pay for this notice period like the person was working there. When I or colleagues have changed jobs then we have given a month or more notice, continued working etc. Only when someone is fired for total incompetence or just not showing up you don't want to see them anymore ever in the office so the company pays for the notice period time.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Varies by province in Canada but generally there is a fixed amount of time you need to be at the company before they can just kick you out. For example in Alberta if you've been with an employer longer than 2 years you must give them 2 weeks. They can terminate you immediately after you resign, but they own you 2 weeks of pay. Likewise, if the company lays you off, they have to give you up to 8-weeks notice depending on how many years you were with the company; 10+ years warrants the full 8-weeks, while 2-4 years in service gets you 2-weeks. These are also mandatory minimums; some companies or employees with contracts or collective agreements may get / offer more. Plenty of loopholes there, like for "just cause", and some industries are "exempted by custom" or by law, like construction or forestry. * https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx
irrational 4y ago
At my company, there is no 2 weeks. The day you give your two weeks notice is your last day. We might pay you for those two weeks, depending on circumstances, but your building and network access is cut off within the hour. So, I personally would not give my notice until the day I actually want to be my last day.
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  This is pretty common. Even more so outside of tech. I did sales for a while and this was normal.
- ghaff 4y ago
  That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. My impression is that two weeks notice with continued access is pretty standard so long as you're leaving on good terms.
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    > That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. Many companies are essentially antagonistic with all IT resources. It's very common where positions are not well paid or the company is not tech-centric, eg Mike Ferry Organization
  - grayhatter 4y ago
    his username is literally irrational... kinda makes sense
  - chihuahua 4y ago
    At Microsoft, the standard practice is that if you say you're leaving to take a job a company they consider a competitor, they cut off all your access at the end of the day, even if your manager wants you to stick around for knowledge transfer. If it's not a competitor, it's up to you how much notice you want to give. If you say you're leaving but don't say who your next employer is, they assume it's a competitor. Facebook was classified as a competitor, Amazon was not.

JamesBarney 4y ago

You push back the start date until they've finished that process. It's a common request, I've made it several times, my wife has made it several times and it's always been granted in my experience.

phpisthebest 4y ago

I have never worked for a company that does the background checks, drug screens, etc on your start date, Typical process that I have had both as employee and a manager is 1. Offer Letter 2. Offer Accepted 3. Pre-Employment Activities start. Start Date is set 2 weeks out 4. Pre-Employment Activities Completed 1 Week out 5. New Employee Starts. It would/should not be an issue for an incoming employee to request a start day 2 week after Pre-Employment Activities are cleared if they wanted to give notice

RussianCow 4y ago
I don't think it's that uncommon. I have personally worked at two companies that didn't do the background check until after employment (which I would never do again), and I've heard this anecdote a few times from others.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  hmm I know for some position there has been a high first day no show rate, I wonder if that is what drives that position? Background checks while not super expensive are not cheap either and if you have a high number of people noping out before the first day I could see where they would want to mitigate those costs. With the changes in drug laws, and this I have seen some companies starting to forgo pre-employment drug screens, which IMO is a good thing. I am not sure what value most of these Pre-Employment checks provide anyway really.
- maxlamb 4y ago
  Were these companies startups or outside the U.S.? I’ve never heard of a big company doing a background check after start date, that makes no sense.
  - licebmi__at__ 4y ago
    Bank of America did this for outside US contractors.
  - RussianCow 4y ago

max51 4y ago

>How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? You remind them that they better finish their background check and sign the final documents fast if they want you on that date. Whatever is the minimum notice period you have to give your current job (eg. 2 weeks), the countdown starts after you get the real signed offer from the future job. you shouldn't risk fucking up your career over loyalty for a job that has not even hired you yet. If they want that loyalty, they need to first sign the papers that makes you an official part of their team.

kadoban 4y ago
> Whatever is the minimum notice period you have to give your current job (eg. 2 weeks), the countdown starts after you get the real signed offer from the future job. At least in the US, I know of no requirement for 2 weeks notice, anywhere. It's just considered polite. > If they want that loyalty, they need to first sign the papers that makes you an official part of their team. Again in the US, I know of no papers that I've ever had from a company that guaranteed anything important. You might end up with something guaranteeing moving expenses or something, but they can still fire you on day 1, if you even make it that far.