7 ms·

In the EU at least. No doubt disclaimers would go up on all source repositories that access from the EU is forbidden.

by tensor 4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago
How many more laws like this one need to get passed for people to stop saying Brexit was the worst thing that could have happened to the UK?
- ben_w 4y ago
  Depends on the people you want to stop saying it. There's people like me, who moved from the UK to Germany as a direct reaction to Brexit. I don't have a Boolean heaven-or-hell (Devon-or-Hull?) attitude to any of this — Brexit itself was stupid, but not (yet) the worst thing the Westminster government did to United Kingdom people. Sure, a repeat of the Potato Famine may happen, but probably not. Then you've got people who have made it part of their identity. On both sides, they're never going to admit the possibility of Team Them making the slightest of mistakes. For example, the specific mistake of the government passing a law that allowed a regional ambulance service to find out the preceding 6 months of internet domains accessed by any person, without any need for a warrant; something that was obviously not compatible with the Human Rights obligations but which the government passed anyway, and as that government was loudly conflating the EU with the human rights courts, I just assumed they'd force it into effect regardless of any objection I could bring, when they actually managed to leave the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016 "Less bad" isn't automatically perfect (the topic of this discussion may be an example of such an imperfection), but it is less bad.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    > the government passing a law that allowed a regional ambulance service to find out the preceding 6 months of internet domains accessed by any person, without any need for a warrant Wow. And people voted in favor of that? No wonder we're flooded with resumes from the UK over here...
    - ben_w 4y ago
      I still don't know why they even asked for that power; the arguments given at the time were predicable clichés that had about as much connection to reality as the average stock photo of a hacker — if I assume they were sincere then they must have been incompetent, and if competent then insincere. https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/80 https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/80
- flangola7 4y ago
  The only reason there's a possibility Brexit isn't the worst thing is the large pool of competitively bad things.
- r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
  In case you hadn't noticed, this law hasn't been passed. It is currently out for consultation through a relatively transparent process. Certainly more transparent than the, let's all meet at the club and thrash it out between us, what what, process that takes place in Westminster under the current lot. This is how democracy is supposed to work, but alas very few people take the time to learn that or engage in the actual process.
- benhurmarcel 4y ago
  Maybe don't base your opinion of the EU on some speculative HN comments about a non-voted law proposal?
SkyBelow 4y ago
If the EU is willing to hold you financially liable for something you provided for free with no promise of it functioning or being safe to use, might they also hold you financially liable even though you said it shouldn't be used by anyone in the EU?
- FredPret 4y ago
  Maybe the safest approach is to firewall them off of the internet. They can have their own bureaucratic paradise without involving the rest of us in their mad schemes.
  - sclarisse 4y ago
    I mean, the newspapers already do that with the GDPR regulations, so it may be inevitable
    - FredPret 4y ago
      Personally I modified my (paid service) project's EULA to make it unavailable to EU residents, citizens, and people currently located there just to be safe. First it was fonts and cookies, now this; I don't want to see where this jaw-dropping progression ends up. In 2016 I thought Britain was absolutely mad, but they're starting to look smarter and smarter
  - cronix 4y ago
    I wonder how much collective time the world would save not having to click on cookie permissions every time they visit a website.
  - jart 4y ago
    MaxMind has a free utility called GeoIpLite that has an explicit field which tells you if an IP address should be considered part of the EU.
    - FredPret 4y ago
noworriesnate 4y ago
What about extradition treaties? Do I need to be concerned about someone in Europe misusing my mathematical expression parser library in a medical device, people die, and then I get extradited? I heard a third-hand story about a Boeing engineer held responsible for an aircraft crash in China, and the US was going to extradite him to China. He committed suicide. Don't know if it was true, although it was a Boeing employee who told me about it, and she certainly thought it was true.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  The US doesn't have an extradition treaty with China, so that's probably an urban legend or someone pulling your leg or trying to put the fear of god (China?) into her and other engineers so they take the job seriously.
octacat 4y ago
Pretty much that. After GDPR many small shops refused to work with EU IP addresses and just redirect to a page with some disclaimer. But big players (who were consulting politicians when GDPR regulations were written) only won from GDPR, they don't need to show the cookies banner all the time on their platforms and still have a lot of power over your private data. Certification of software is always expensive, so expect new open source licenses: "Open source as usual, but if you are from EU, you are not allowed to use that code". Or expect Amazon to take an open source product, close source their fork, do certification and provide SAAS. Again, there are companies who can do some commercial support for their code, but they are really could not be interested in adopting all the EU regulations.

In the EU at least. No doubt disclaimers would go up on all source repositories that access from the EU is forbidden.

by tensor 4y ago

In the EU at least. No doubt disclaimers would go up on all source repositories that access from the EU is forbidden.

How many more laws like this one need to get passed for people to stop saying Brexit was the worst thing that could have happened to the UK?

ben_w 4y ago
Depends on the people you want to stop saying it. There's people like me, who moved from the UK to Germany as a direct reaction to Brexit. I don't have a Boolean heaven-or-hell (Devon-or-Hull?) attitude to any of this — Brexit itself was stupid, but not (yet) the worst thing the Westminster government did to United Kingdom people. Sure, a repeat of the Potato Famine may happen, but probably not. Then you've got people who have made it part of their identity. On both sides, they're never going to admit the possibility of Team Them making the slightest of mistakes. For example, the specific mistake of the government passing a law that allowed a regional ambulance service to find out the preceding 6 months of internet domains accessed by any person, without any need for a warrant; something that was obviously not compatible with the Human Rights obligations but which the government passed anyway, and as that government was loudly conflating the EU with the human rights courts, I just assumed they'd force it into effect regardless of any objection I could bring, when they actually managed to leave the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016 "Less bad" isn't automatically perfect (the topic of this discussion may be an example of such an imperfection), but it is less bad.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > the government passing a law that allowed a regional ambulance service to find out the preceding 6 months of internet domains accessed by any person, without any need for a warrant Wow. And people voted in favor of that? No wonder we're flooded with resumes from the UK over here...
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I still don't know why they even asked for that power; the arguments given at the time were predicable clichés that had about as much connection to reality as the average stock photo of a hacker — if I assume they were sincere then they must have been incompetent, and if competent then insincere. https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/80 https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/80
flangola7 4y ago
The only reason there's a possibility Brexit isn't the worst thing is the large pool of competitively bad things.
r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
In case you hadn't noticed, this law hasn't been passed. It is currently out for consultation through a relatively transparent process. Certainly more transparent than the, let's all meet at the club and thrash it out between us, what what, process that takes place in Westminster under the current lot. This is how democracy is supposed to work, but alas very few people take the time to learn that or engage in the actual process.
benhurmarcel 4y ago
Maybe don't base your opinion of the EU on some speculative HN comments about a non-voted law proposal?

SkyBelow 4y ago

If the EU is willing to hold you financially liable for something you provided for free with no promise of it functioning or being safe to use, might they also hold you financially liable even though you said it shouldn't be used by anyone in the EU?

FredPret 4y ago
Maybe the safest approach is to firewall them off of the internet. They can have their own bureaucratic paradise without involving the rest of us in their mad schemes.
- sclarisse 4y ago
  I mean, the newspapers already do that with the GDPR regulations, so it may be inevitable
  - FredPret 4y ago
    Personally I modified my (paid service) project's EULA to make it unavailable to EU residents, citizens, and people currently located there just to be safe. First it was fonts and cookies, now this; I don't want to see where this jaw-dropping progression ends up. In 2016 I thought Britain was absolutely mad, but they're starting to look smarter and smarter
- cronix 4y ago
  I wonder how much collective time the world would save not having to click on cookie permissions every time they visit a website.
- jart 4y ago
  MaxMind has a free utility called GeoIpLite that has an explicit field which tells you if an IP address should be considered part of the EU.
  - FredPret 4y ago

noworriesnate 4y ago

What about extradition treaties? Do I need to be concerned about someone in Europe misusing my mathematical expression parser library in a medical device, people die, and then I get extradited? I heard a third-hand story about a Boeing engineer held responsible for an aircraft crash in China, and the US was going to extradite him to China. He committed suicide. Don't know if it was true, although it was a Boeing employee who told me about it, and she certainly thought it was true.

Jtsummers 4y ago
The US doesn't have an extradition treaty with China, so that's probably an urban legend or someone pulling your leg or trying to put the fear of god (China?) into her and other engineers so they take the job seriously.

octacat 4y ago

Pretty much that. After GDPR many small shops refused to work with EU IP addresses and just redirect to a page with some disclaimer. But big players (who were consulting politicians when GDPR regulations were written) only won from GDPR, they don't need to show the cookies banner all the time on their platforms and still have a lot of power over your private data. Certification of software is always expensive, so expect new open source licenses: "Open source as usual, but if you are from EU, you are not allowed to use that code". Or expect Amazon to take an open source product, close source their fork, do certification and provide SAAS. Again, there are companies who can do some commercial support for their code, but they are really could not be interested in adopting all the EU regulations.