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"I haven’t been drunk in 3 years... and I’ve been partying way more than you."

• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• badclient 15y ago
  This is funny because I've never touched alcohol but am often accused of being drunk.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    you're just naturally fun, and maybe a little crazy. :)
• davidw 15y ago
  Moderation seems like a good approach. I like a nice glass of wine with dinner. I don't like being drunk, though.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    Like with most things it's easy to slide down a slippery slope. One glass of wine turns into two and then you've polished off the rest of the bottle. A glass of wine is something I may add back in like 20-30 years, but honestly I don't miss it that much. You're either alone and should just find a way to be in that happy, light place without the wine... or it's a social thing and you can find another delicious drink to socialize with. (hot cocoa, coconut-lime soda, etc.) And the buddhist in my fully appreciates a moderation / middle way approach... But what is that glass of wine getting you? Is it strictly a taste thing? Is it the antioxidants? My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine.
    • anatoli 15y ago
      Just because you can't regulate your alcohol consumption, doesn't mean that the rest of us can't either. Don't try and force your own choices on other people.
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        Wow. Do you really feel like I'm forcing my choice on you? I wrote a blog post sharing my experience. 3 years I've enjoyed fully. Maybe you don't need to do it the way I've done it and can make every moment of your life a party with or without alcohol. And I'm fully capable of regulating my drink. What I'm getting at is finding other ways to find the mental benefits drinking provides, ie, being able to have the confidence / happiness being buzzed/drunk provides... without needing the alcohol.
        • georgieporgie 15y ago
          Well, you did say, "Like with most things it's easy to slide down a slippery slope. One glass of wine turns into two and then you've polished off the rest of the bottle," as if you automatically assume others can't control their drinking. As for the "confidence/happiness" that drinking brings, I wonder if you're not projecting again. Personally, drinking doesn't make me any more confident. It doesn't make me happy in and of itself, though it can help to reduce stress. And there you're talking about "needing the alcohol," as if appreciating the effects of something is "needing" it...
          • dariusmonsef 15y ago
            I wrote the post for people that use drinking as a way to enjoy an experience more. Those are the kind of people who often slide down that slope. I recognize that a lot of people don't have any issues with this slope. Sorry for sliding you down it. What do you get out of drinking?
            • georgieporgie 15y ago
              I wrote the post for people that use drinking as a way to enjoy an experience more. Those are the kind of people who often slide down that slope. And I think that's completely a false assumption to make about people. I myself might drink because I enjoy the element that the feeling of warmth and relaxation adds to a conversation with friends. So, I may be using it to enjoy an experience 'more' but that has nothing to do with sliding down a slope. Friends and I may sometimes enjoy drinking as the social setting, the activity for the night. The actual entertainment comes not from the drinking itself, but from the social interaction and camaraderie. It's a shared experience, and that's what human interaction is largely about. It sounds like you're trying to address an audience of unaware alcoholics. Or extremely dull people who rely exclusively on drinking as sole entertainment.
    • deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    • sliverstorm 15y ago
      My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine Don't keep us in suspense then, because the only things I can think of that give you similar results to wine are beer and liquor.
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        I meant the positive aspects of wine, ie Rich in Antioxidants, Flavor, etc. Not any of the buzz/drunk happiness benefits. What I'm suggesting people try and do is find that place without drinking.
        • anatoli 15y ago
          If I enjoy wine, why should I substitute it for something else? I don't get what is so inherently evil about alcohol that I need to find an alternative immediately or why it would be beneficial for me to find an alternative. This was partially in response to this: "And the buddhist in my fully appreciates a moderation / middle way approach...But what is that glass of wine getting you? Is it strictly a taste thing? Is it the antioxidants? My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine."
          • aangjie 15y ago
            Ok..from my anecdotal evidence as much i like red wine, i don't like what seems to do to my liver. (am not referring to study but the feeling of nausea/acidity it causes). I have found that grape juice is a good source of antioxidants..
        • burgerbrain 15y ago
          "I meant the positive aspects of wine ... Not any of the buzz/drunk happiness benefits" If I may be so blunt, you honestly are now sounding like some Mormon friends I know who have never drank, but for some reason feel particularly qualified to speak on the matter.
    • adambyrtek 15y ago
      Using your own argument, what is hot cocoa and coconut-lime soda getting you? Is it strictly a taste thing?
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        Yeah, a taste thing. Or the social crutch that having a glass of something provides. Something to fidget with, use as pauses in conversation.
    • callahad 15y ago
      My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine. That seems to be begging the question, if I'm using that term correctly. You're starting from the premise that the glass of wine has significant deleterious effects, and thus should readily be avoided if other goods can replace it. I'm not sure I personally agree with that premise.
    • pwthornton 15y ago
      For most people one glass of wine doesn't turn into a bottle. That's called a problem. I enjoy having a glass of wine while I'm reading. It's relaxing and goes well with reading. Sometimes I have a glass of wine, take a bath and read. One day when you drink wine again you should try it.
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        True. Everybody who drinks a glass of wine into doesn't have a drinking problem. Really, what I was hoping to suggest and perhaps have done a poor job of, was encouraging people to try and find those things that they get from alcohol without it. ie, Could you find a way to relax for your reading without a glass of wine? If you could find that place without anything external, but thoughts are that would be a pretty great skill to have all the time.
        • pwthornton 15y ago
          I usually don't drink while I read, but I do enjoy drinking while I read. Usually one beer or one glass of wine. I usually drink tea while I read. I do agree that if you can't enjoy something unless you're drinking, that's an issue. If I had to drink every time I read a book, I would have to do some soul searching. And you're right, if you can only party when you're drunk, are you really partying?
      • udp 15y ago
        Exactly. I guess some people just don't understand that there's a big difference between boasting about how many shots of vodka you had last night and chilling with a beer or two.
    • rimantas 15y ago
      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html
• watty 15y ago
  Good for him but not sure why he feels the need to push his zero-alcohol policy on others. I'd guess more people drink for other reasons than to "get drunk" but I guess this was his only reason.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    Didn't think I was being pushy... just suggesting an alternative. And I would say for most people drinking is for the purposes of getting drunk / buzzed. All I'm suggesting is that people take on the challenge of trying to achieve that state of mind that getting buzzed gets you, when sober. Be able to find that place where you're more carefree, relaxed and fun... so you can find it anytime and then be it all the time.
    • _delirium 15y ago
      For college students I think that's true, but I wouldn't say for most people alcohol consumption is mainly for getting drunk/buzzed. Most people are somewhere between 0 drinks and "bottle of wine", along the lines of "a beer or two while watching a football game" or "a glass of wine or two with dinner". I mean I guess you could drink soft drinks with dinner, but to me that's a weird unnatural thing to do (super-sweet, and doesn't fit well either taste- or culture-wise with traditional European cuisine). Water is ok, and I do drink that sometimes.
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        I've done this a couple of times and it isn't helpful for the discussion, but in my head I was picturing a certain kind of people... those who are going out to bars / clubs regularly. Those that are drinking the 3+ drinks. To say most people that drink do that isn't probably true. But most of the people out in bars/clubs "partying" I would say are the people who are going for buzzed/drunk. And they don't have to be in college. And I just drink water at dinner, but that's because I really like water. (some nutritionalists would actually suggest drinking a lot of anything while eating a meal is actually hard on digestion.)
• jayferd 15y ago
  ++ Especially with alcohol, there's a huge difference between what's promised and what's delivered. It seems to promise fun and relaxation, but really it just makes you a little wobbly and a little sick. A friend of mine would always joke that "we're in for a night of beer and yelling!". It kind of put things in perspective.
  • noamsml 15y ago
    Interesting take on fun and relaxation: Try going to a party and drinking non-alcoholic beer. It tastes kind of meh, but overall delivers the same experience. One surprising result of that is that drinking non-alcoholic beer (which has the same alcohol content as some brands of orange juice) tends to loosen you up a fair bit, because it has all the trappings and promises of an alcoholic beer. Turns out the actual alcohol is incidental to those effects.
• noamsml 15y ago
  I know a lot of people who go out to bars, drink, and spend the entire night shouting about how drunk they are and how drunk they were all those other times they went drinking. I don't get it. I've never been a heavy partier, but my craziest, weirdest, most memory-making times have all been stone sober.
• drewblaisdell 15y ago
  While I'm glad that someone found that total sobriety is the best for them, I found parts of this to be a bit distasteful. The times in my life when I overdid it a bit (or a lot) with the drinking, the next day I found myself thinking "wow, I acted like such an idiot last night", not "I could have acted like the same idiot without alcohol". If I'm at a bachelor party making gay jokes ("no homo"), the amount of alcohol I've consumed is somewhat irrelevant.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    What parts did you find distasteful? I was conscious when writing this to keep an air of mtv beachhouse / jersey shore tone in it... That's the kind of partying that has been glamorized and what a lot of people seek out on the weekend. I definitely don't suggest people act like idiots. I was simply trying to relate to the people that are probably overdoing it the most.
    • carbocation 15y ago
      Well, drewblaisdell named one of the distasteful parts directly, but I can quote it in isolation to make it more clear: > at a bachelor party making gay jokes ("no homo")
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        "No homo" isn't really making fun of gay people... it's more making fun of people who are homophobes. No offense intended to gay people. Some of the people I love and respect most in this world are.
        • carbocation 15y ago
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_homo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_homo To be clear, this isn't some White Knight thing, or a gotcha trying to call you out. I think you deserve the chance to get feedback that your words carry an apparently unintended meaning.
• Lewton 15y ago
  I did this for four months. (Started drinking again around new years because it seemed highly appropriate) I definitely got the "Wow, you've been sober for 4 months?!? But we partied so hard last friday!" thing a lot. When people are drunk, they really don't notice you not being drunk.. I agree with most of the article, and will probably go back on the wagon again soon. But he left out some of the negative stuff... For example.. How grating it gets when your friends get so drunk that they start to repeat themselves... Over and over again.. And how hard it can be to get a point across to someone who's drunk when you're sober. Making conversations, at times, highly frustrating. When I'm drunk I'm just as stupid and the conversations run smoothly!
  • gliese1337 15y ago
    Those are definite negatives to hanging out with drunk people. But, they don't really go away just because you're drunk, too. People are still bad at conversation, you just start to not notice. If your primary intent is just to be sociable, that probably solves the problem, but if your intent is to actually talk about something, it's just avoidance. My preferred solution is to hang out with other people who are also not drunk, but still intent on partying. My freshman year of college developed a saying that I really should've started using in high school: "The Best Things in Life Happen When You Could Be Mistaken for Drunk, But Aren't."
    • Lewton 15y ago
      Having good conversations doesn't necesarilly have anything to do with having structured well thought out dialogue. "Clicking" with someone, and having a great time incoherently talking about dumb stuff while laughing, can be just as fulfilling (but in a different way) than an intelligent enlightening discussion. Sure, you don't need alcohol to talk about dumb stuff with someone you're level with. But I find that alcohol severely expands the demographic of people I can get that kind of interaction going with
• anonhacker 15y ago
  Indeed this has crossed my mind many times... I have blacked out far too often and thought to myself, whats the point if i don't remember anything the next day? That being said, it's easy to claim that you can be just as fun,charismatic,etc without alcohol, but I have tried before and its really hard. Can you share how you transitioned to being drunk sober?
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    I tried to outline some of those things in the post... ie, getting your friends on board so they don't make the non-drinking an awkward issue. Drinking something else as a social crutch. Give yourself permission to act a bit silly, just go along with the other people around you. I'm not saying it's an easy thing. But if you can get to the point where you can be just as fun,happy, charismatic sober... You have that ability anytime you want it.
• pwthornton 15y ago
  Most people who stop drinking do it for either health reasons (allergic, acid reflux, etc.) or because they are an alcoholic. He doesn't fully explain why he stopped drinking, and I'm wonder if it is because he had issues with drinking. I do want to add before I write more that if you don't enjoy drinking, don't do it. Just because other people are doing it that doesn't mean you should. I know some people who don't actually enjoy alcohol, but they still feel like it's the thing to do socially. If you enjoy not drinking, rock it. If you're out of your early 20s and you're still getting drunk regularly, you probably have an alcohol problem. I'm 27 and haven't been drunk in years. I drink a few times a week and usually only have a drink or two. I might have three-ish tomorrow because of the big game. It's fine if you don't want to drink, but there is something missing from his story. Maybe he needed to stop drinking, but many of us can responsibly handle and enjoy alcohol. I love beer. I love trying different kinds of beer. I love the taste, and I want to discover new kinds. If you're drinking alcohol just to get drunk that's the issue. Many of us drink beer, wine or mixed drinks because we actually enjoy the drink. I know I have a few tasty microbrews lined up for tomorrow.
  • deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  • ElliotH 15y ago
    I'm not sure. I've started taking a break from alcohol recently, and while I'm not sure I'll do it forever I am loving the side-effects like more disposable income, general feeling of healthiness after a night out and such. There's lot s of reasons to consider stopping drinking other than serious health issues or alcoholism. And this is coming from someone who really enjoys good whiskey and local ale, so I really do miss the taste.
  • Lewton 15y ago
    IMO. He clearly explained why he stopped drinking (wanting to actually experience everything with a clear mind). I stopped drinking to see if I could. Compared to that, his explanation is more than enough
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    Never had issues. I thought I explained in the post that I did it as a challenge to not need the "liquid courage" to do all the fun stuff when partying with friends. I guess that is an issue, but would be a confidence issue... not an alcohol one. I have plenty of friends who drink socially, have been drunk every so often and are in their 30s. I don't think any of them have drinking problems. You mention a couple times that there is something missing from the story but I wonder if you read the post? My story explains that I did it as a challenge. To not need the social support of drinking, so I can experience a party at any time... without alcohol. My point was not to say alcohol is bad for everybody or that if you drink you have a problem... again, I was speaking about people "partying" ie drinking 4+ drinks. If you drink in moderation or have a glass of wine here or there, then the post wasn't addressing your lifestyle.
• yason 15y ago
  In Finland we have this joke that "You can't have fun without alcohol but you can have alcohol without fun—thus prefer the former, obviously."
  • Dove 15y ago
    "You can't have fun without alcohol"? Really? Is that some kind of a typo or do you guys really say that?
    • Tharkun 15y ago
      You obviously haven't been to Finland, have you? Finnish males communicate by grunts and don't express emotions when sober. When drunk, they communicate by brawls and express emotions in streams of vomit. Seriously, spend a night in Helsinki sometimes, it's an eye-opener.
    • yason 15y ago
      It's a joke but like with many jokes the bigger the grain of truth the better. Another classic is "Having fun without alcohol is pretense." These are typically said when, for example, planning an evening out with friends or gathering at someone's place and the question of "Ok, shall we drink something, too, then?" comes up. More often than not the collective conclusion is that of why not have a few beers since we're going to have some fun time anyway--probably motivated by the fear of not actually having fun without those beers. And then inevitably some of the participants stretch the meaning of "few" and you can witness something like this act by a Swedish guy who captures something of the essence of Finnish drunkenness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAl9OyGYxOg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAl9OyGYxOg Note that we can't generalize from this. Many Finnish people are decent with regard to the consumption of alcohol and many citizens of numerous other countries often drink too much. But there is a certain difference between Finland and many nations. What is common in Finland—or first frowned upon but immediately dismissed as "I'll do it too"—is generally considered a very undesirable way to embarrass yourself in many other countries.
• ccollins 15y ago
  A couple of years ago, I spent Thanksgiving with a friend and the first thing he warned was, "My family does not drink alcohol!". Interesting... I am accustomed to intoxicated family parties, but on that specific Thanksgiving, 20 of us drank tea and ate turkey. It was pleasant. After dinner, his father (a Doctor, along with 80% of the family) shared his views about alcohol, predicting that in one generation alcohol will be socially rejected the way tobacco is today because of how utterly destructive alcohol is to the human body. Remember! Just 50 years ago, the majority of the United States had no problem with cigarettes. I still drink, along with almost every adult I know, though I cannot help but think that my friend's dad is right.
  • georgieporgie 15y ago
    Don't forget that around a hundred years ago, alcohol was pretty socially unacceptable.
    • pwthornton 15y ago
      Maybe in some Protestant circles, but in many parts and communities of the country, that was never the case. Catholics, Jews, Germans and some other immigrants 100 years ago were very much into drinking, as it is part of their culture.
      • georgieporgie 15y ago
        I know plenty of people who smoke pot. Despite this fact, in light of national legislation against it, I don't consider it to qualify it as "socially acceptable". Anyway, the point is that alcohol has waxed and waned in popularity. For every article I read about binge drinking related problems, I read another about the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption. I expect our current trend of binge drinking to fade, for awhile, but I certainly don't see alcohol consumption in general going away, ever.
        • corin_ 15y ago
          In the UK I'd say that in lots of non-smoking circles, weed is indeed fairly socially acceptable. Not universal, maybe not even for the majority of people (I've no idea how the figures add up). But for my company, as an example, if I walked into the office on Monday and said "I had a great weekend, was permanently stoned" (not true!), my CEO would be very critical - to what extent I don't know - but he's already critical of my smoking (he attempted to bribe me to quit with a new coffee machine for the office, which almost tempted me), the rest of my colleagues would have no problem with it, so long as I never did it immediately before or during work. Not only with people who don't smoke weed (possibly everyone in our company I believe) but those who don't smoke cigarettes, too.
• alexholehouse 15y ago
  I'm really surprised at the level of hostility in these comments. I read this not as a preachy, "do this or waste your life" type post, but as a reflection of one man's experience and the very positive outcome that this lifestyle change had. Maybe it's not relevant for some people - if you're not the kind of person who parties and gets drunk regularly (where regularity is obviously subjective) then clearly his experience may well be irrelevant. On the other hand, if you are, maybe you can try it - maybe it won't work for you and maybe it will.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    Thank you. That was how I meant it... simply suggesting a hack to my life that worked out really well for me. The hostile reaction was a bit of a surprise.
    • salemh 15y ago
      I found the post more of a great philosophy of a life approach -- even outside the "sober vs not" theme. Sometimes hostility from others who are not sober can come from the turn of an introspective eye (conscious or subconscious) to themselves. Meaning, seeing someone else sober, can make one question their own lack of sobriety, even if no chronic problem exists (alcoholism, etc.) Some cog. therapy stuffs. Found it in myself (inebriated) and with friends / others (when I am sober). Its interesting to see the reactions or non-reaction when one "thinks" you are intoxicated, when not, and those same people in a different setting knowing you are Not intoxicated.
    • potatolicious 15y ago
      When I read the post I didn't get a very sanctimonious feeling out of it. But quotes like these are not at all defusing the hostility: > "Like with most things it's easy to slide down a slippery slope. One glass of wine turns into two and then you've polished off the rest of the bottle." You've gone from "here's a great idea" to "if you're not doing it my way you're on a slippery slope to hell", and I think that's the tone people are objecting to.
      • 15y ago
• corin_ 15y ago
  First, I agree with people pointing out that alcohol doesn't have to be for getting drunk. At the moment I have three near-empty boxes of beer (bottles), six part-drunk bottles of whisky, and a few empty wine bottles. None of that alcohol has been consumed by myself or anyone else to the point of being even buzzed, yet alone drunk. However, I do enjoy getting drunk. I've never drunk so much I threw up, or fell over, or hit anyone, or... etc. But yes, when I'm out with friends or colleagues we will happily enjoy a night with much alcohol flowing - enough to be classed by the UK government as "booze drinking", at least. I sometimes do or say something I feel embarassed about afterwards (most recent example was a conversation about poetry with a London taxi driver at ~5am), but nothing I've been ashamed of. Sure, I can have fun without alcohol. Sometimes I do - certainly I've never had the thought that being drunk is a requirement for having fun. It just provides a different type of fun. Different things make you laugh, you have different conversations... Obviously these things vary for different people, I've known people who I don't want to be around when they're drunk - but also plenty of people just like me. edit: Just read the first paragraph of this comment and thought "I wrote that myself and even I think that sounds like an alcoholic in denial". When I'm out and drinking I'll drink a lot, when I'm at home I'll have a glass or two over an evening. If I tried to get drunk off the whisky I have at home it would be a really expensive night.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    I really didn't intend to say drinking or not drinking was right/wrong for everybody... just trying to tell my story and what I've found worked well for me. I would love to know what the beer/whisky/wine brought to your time with your friends, it it wasn't for getting drunk/buzzed? Honestly curious.
    • anatoli 15y ago
      Do you only appreciate a nice steak frites because it makes you full? You seem to think that it's impossible to genuinely appreciate the flavour of alcoholic drinks and to have interest in drinking the many kinds for the variety of interesting flavours. Why should I avoid certain drinks simply because they have alcohol in them? Can you explain?
• geuis 15y ago
  I like to drink. I love the taste of a good bitter beer. I love trying different kinds of scotch and wiskey. I've had some of the best times just drinking with friends. Everything doesn't have to be a soul searching adventure. I don't get wild and belligerent when I drink. So there's definitely no need to be that way sober.
• zobzu 15y ago
  Obviously this story has nothing to do with alcohol. It's just some kind of deflection. It's about he had a cancer in the eye, realized life's short, cancer got fixed and he lived his life the way he actually wanted but never dared to.
• georgieporgie 15y ago
  The author comes across as projecting, having social issues, and obsessing on "achieving" juvenile behavior (not to say I don't engage in juvenile behavior, but it comes naturally). Flagged.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    I probably was projecting a bit... as I was telling my story. The experiences, the reasons to change, etc. Were all personal reasons. And yes the focus on juvenile behavior was because I was writing to the people who party this way. What I didn't expect was so many casual drinkers to think I was speaking to them to to take offense.
    • ryan-allen 15y ago
      You're going to hit nerves no matter what you say. You're discussing the use of a widely legal and popular narcotic. I think the only mistake you made was submitting this piece to Hacker News in the first place. To write about your personal experiences is fine, to submit them to a resource of useful information is a whole other matter.
      • dariusmonsef 15y ago
        I was trying to discuss a hack I made to my life. Something I've done to improve my own. And I'm a YC Founder... Seemed like a pretty good place to post this. imho
• xiaoma 15y ago
  I'm not sure I follow the author's reasoning. It's also possible to have a great time without consuming meat, without having sex or even without including friends in the activity. So what?
  • pavel_lishin 15y ago
    I can start a fire by rubbing two sticks together, but I'll still bring matches to a campout.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    If you drink alcohol to get buzzed/drunk in order to be more relaxed/social/happy, etc. All I'm suggesting is that it might be possible for you to achieve that without drinking... and then you can access that place any time you want. If you enjoy drinking and don't need it for the above. Awesome for you.
• gst 15y ago
  Just speculation, but I have the impression that alcohol "problems" are a larger problem in countries where the age required to legally buy alcohol is rather high. In my home country (Austria) I could buy alcohol at age 13 without any problems. No one would ask for an ID. I think nowadays they are a little bit stricter, but you are still legally allowed to buy alcohol once you turn 16. Once you turn a little bit older alcohol isn't that interesting any more. Of course, you'd still buy a beer (or more) if you're partying with friends, but getting totally wasted is something teenagers would do. I've moved to the US some time ago, and here I have the impression that even people in their late-twenties get regularly drunk just "because they can" and are "allowed to do so". Seems they just never learned how to use alcohol responsibly while they were young, and at some age it's too late to learn it.
  • fertel 15y ago
    In terms of numbers Austria consumes far more liters per capita per year than the United States. 13.24 liters vs 9.44 liters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co... There are other reasons why "binge drinking" appears to be higher in anglo countries (US, Britain, Canada, etc...). Especially among the upper middle class. Longer work weeks than the rest of the industrialized world, less vacation days, etc... Drinking age may play a role in our propensity towards binge drinking, but I think it also has a lot to do with our "work hard, play hard" mentality.
  • tbsdy 15y ago
    Most countries don't have such a low limit. Australia is considered low, and we have a national binge drinking problem.
    • silvestrov 15y ago
      One thing is the official age limit. Another, and much more important thing, is the age when the parents start serving alcohol to their children. My parents allowed me to have a small sips starting when I was 5. At that point in my life, I could not understand why adults wanted to drink such awful stuff when there was sweet soda. My parents have never said NO to me when I asked for alcohol. Result? I learned that alcohol is something you drink in moderation, I've never been (really) drunk, I've never associated alcohol with rebellion or a necessity for having fun or having a diner.
• VMG 15y ago
  I recommend the use of cannabis
  • thomasdavis 15y ago
    aha I came here for this. Damn fear campaigns generating 'non-conforming' conformist.
• moultano 15y ago
  Thanks for writing this. I've felt the same way for pretty much my whole life, and I'm glad there are other people who feel the same way. It's a much better investment in yourself to be comfortable being your best, most uninhibited self, without sacrificing mental clarity. That said, I did hear one argument from a friend once that made me understand drinking a little more. When you drink heavily with a friend, you're in effect saying that you trust that person enough to see you without full control of yourself. It's a more intimate interaction as a result. I half buy that, though I still avoid alcohol. The most important thing to remember about all this is that there really isn't any judgement involved. When I'm hanging out with people, I want them to be fun and uninhibited. If that requires alcohol, that's fine. It's a personal choice to increase my own happiness, not a judgement of anyone else.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    Agreed, especially on the judgement point. I really didn't intend to, but I think I offended a few people here because it sounded like I was passing judgement on people that do drink. I just bought my wife a 6-pack of beer from the store yesterday and I think she's the most amazing person on this planet.
• kennethologist 15y ago
  This article was very helpful and it encourged me. I'm in my mid twenties and I've never drank gotten drunk (outside of sampling) and always had peers pressuring me to drink. But this article reaffirmed my reasons for not drinking. Conclusion; I don't see how drinking would enhance my life than when I am sober. Thank Bubs!
• mattie0285 15y ago
  Well its just actually a matter of perspective sometimes. If you think you could still keep up there is no problem so long as you still has control over yourself. Remember that accidents happen when we are not aware of it. Be a responsible drinker.
• grogs 15y ago
  I'm British, I've been crazy drunk 3 times. I don't do that often, I don't really even go clubbing anymore (last time was 6 months ago - in Hungary, gotta go back 10 months for UK clubbing). I think the drinking culture in the UK is really bad. The French will happily drink a bottle of wine... but with a meal. I definitely drink most people get bored of it pretty quickly. I think it's insane that people get "pissed" weekly. Hangovers are not fun. However, I have a (mini) fridge just for botted lager, which I dip into when watching football. I have a collection of 8-16year single malt whiskys which I slowly sip of occasionally. I often buy a nice bottle of ale, which goes well with a steak. No clue why people would continue getting very drunk behond the age of 25. (I'm 21 and mostly bored of it)
• kurrent 15y ago
  "If you’re drunk, you’re not fully there. You don’t remember everything. " that's part of the whole reason to get drunk for me
  • Aloisius 15y ago
    Exactly. Alcohol is for helping me forget the stupid things I'm going to do. Why anyone would want to remember them in vivid detail is beyond me.
  • kragen 15y ago
    Maybe if your life is so awful that you want to obliviate it, you should change it instead of drinking.
• antidaily 15y ago
  Wow this guy's life sounds AMAZING. All kidding aside, I'm for anything that makes you happy and doesn't harm others.
• mdmarocks 15y ago
  I agree completely despite being a frequent recreational user of drugs including alcohol. I was once an extremely shy person who on following friends to social gatherings would ignore girls hitting on me and otherwise avoid interaction. I was very lonely so I sought out drugs as a way to subdue my inhibitions. Misguided though that may have been, ecstasy in particular has helped me gain confidence in social situations (due partly to a placebo effect :). I realized that I should and would be able to be comfortable and have fun while sober if I only tried. Drugs are fun in moderation (let's not throw the babies out with the bathwater) but only to the extent that they cause fun rather than detracting from it. In my experience for a given drug such a point of inflection always exists. Drinking for the taste also makes sense.
• usaar333 15y ago
  Once a week there is a post on HN where I fail to understand how it got so up-voted. This is that post. If not for the moderate condescension and proselytism, I wouldn't think much of it; instead, I've become inspired to comment. OP probably does feel more "fun" in a given month than most of us. But the article comes across as though the reader has never experienced such a life. A lot of us have - in our teenage years. The life of skinny dipping, cross-dressing, and acting like an idiot, all without the aid of alcohol, aptly describes my own. Sure, those times were fun, perhaps among the most fun of my life. But a lot of that fun came from both their novelty and ignorance of the perhaps more enjoyable adult fun (alcohol, sex). Unfortunately, as life went on, those activities grew mundane. (Besides, one seeks higher levels of happiness as he ages, for instance the self-actualization that comes with building a successful business). In a sense, I envy the author's enjoying such activities at 30 as much as a teen would. Why he thinks he is able to would make a great follow-up blog post. Most of society after all shifts to the "adult fun". On another note, the extremism of the post bothers me. The author equates drinking alcohol with getting drunk. Which of course excessive consumption causes. But I can certainly remember everything if I consume just a few shots, but those said shots certainly make the world around me seem much more entertaining.
• blahedo 15y ago
  Why the false dichotomy? The author seems to imply that the alternatives are 1) never touching a drop of alcohol, or 2) getting blind drunk, being incapable of controlling your actions, and blacking out. There are some good points in there about how you shouldn't "need" alcohol, and arguments against getting totally wasted, but he seems to be completely ignoring a huge, huge middle ground.
  • johnnyjustice 15y ago
    You're completely right for some people. But alot of people think that fun can't be had without alcohol. And its catchy title. But your right, it could say simply "You don't need alcohol to have fun"
    • dariusmonsef 15y ago
      The title is probably more link-baity then I really intended... and I'm sure a better writer could have some up with something that captured interest without polarizing people.
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    The whole post is less about drinking and more about finding the ability to have an amazing time, any time, owned by your mental ability. If you can do that, and you don't use alcohol to get there, then that's awesome and I'm stoked for you. The post was written for people who do party hard and use alcohol to be happier/more social/funny etc.
  • ryanwaggoner 15y ago
    For a lot of people, it's not a false dichotomy; there is no middle ground. And I'm not necessarily talking about alcoholism either (though that qualifies); the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too. Think about it like this: how many people who drink have been drunk to the point of throwing up (and subsequently hungover) more than once or twice? Most people who drink would answer yes. And that makes zero sense; what logical person would choose to experience that misery more than once? And yet many do it almost every weekend. Because alcohol screws up your brain.
• shaunxcode 15y ago
  Sometimes I am surprised to find I am the only straight edge hacker I know. Most of the time though I just don't care. So while I totally concur with the article I fail to see how this parses as hacker news?
• johnnyjustice 15y ago
  I love the idea, but I am left not knowing what to do next. It ends with a bunch of motivational stuff, give me direct challenges! some concrete action steps and you have yourself a full blogpost article thing thats awesome and can really change the status quo
  • dariusmonsef 15y ago
    I would love to go deeper on this. I don't have the time right now to write what would be a short book length piece, but appreciate the motivation to do it.
• Tharkun 15y ago
  To each their own. I never drank alcohol, not until long after my student days had come and gone. Some of my best friends never drink, either. It doesn't stop you from having fun, nor does the inverse guarantee you'll have fun. But in the end, it's your own choice, and it's always interesting to see different points of view being discussed on HN. Haters gonna hate.
• kisstheblade 15y ago
  I've seen these kind of people, and the fact is that they are not "the fun of the party" though they themselves of course can enjoy themselves (and the drunk people don't mind). It's the "drunken" people providing all the fun and atmosphere (no, you don't have to be wasted, just a little drunk so that you don't have so many inhibitions).
• pinaceae 15y ago
  ...but being sober is not the same as being on drugs. same fun? no. better fun? define better. different fun. drugs are a big influence of human history, art pretty much was build on it. you can tell by trends in art which kinds of drugs were fashionable. it is interesting to "hack" your body with drugs. you change, like vacation from reality. sobriety is overrated.
  • drumdance 15y ago
    It's overrated if it comes easy to you. For some of us it's an achievement.
• physcab 15y ago
  I get the point of the post. But come on, we're adults. Drinking is a choice. For some people, if having a drink makes them more social and they enjoy it, more power to them. If people choose to be sober and it works for them in their social life, hey, good for them too. Yes alcohol can be abused. But just because you choose to get shitfaced doesn't mean you don't know how to have fun the "real" way. It also doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. And just because you don't drink, doesn't mean you're the outcast. Your post would have been a lot more meaningful if you neglected the part about the alcohol altogether. I think what's inspiring is that you chose to go down a different path and it led to amazing things in your life. Drinking is irrelevant and takes away from the good message you try to convey.
  • peteretep 15y ago
    I quit drinking Jan 1st, and commented about that on Facebook. A friend messaged me and told me she'd done just the same, but was explicitly not telling people to avoid judgemental comments. Judgemental comments? lolwhut? But any time recently people have seen I don't drink, everyone has an opinion. And 90% of those opinions are long-winded justifications on why it's ok the other person drinks. Drinking in moderation won't kill you. Very occasionally people suggest that there are even medicinal purposes. But: life gets better without alcohol. I went out for my birthday party last night, and we had an awesome night of drunk karaoke, only, I wasn't drinking. I had a load of fun, sang like an idiot in to the microphone with my friends, and got home safe, having spent almost no cash. Giving up drinking for me was like giving up smoking before it: I really realized I could just no longer justify doing it. Ever. It's a literal poison, and the idea that you can't bond, have fun, and have crazy nights without it is all bullshit.
    • physcab 15y ago
      > the idea that you can't bond, have fun, and have crazy nights without it is all bullshit Right, and I realize that. You're making the same point the OP did. But I'm saying you can bond, have fun, and have crazy nights with alcohol and thats ok too. It's a personal choice either way.
    • oe 15y ago
• baby 15y ago
  Looks like he's bragging more than anything else, and the sad part in it, I really don't think he partied the way I did.
• gmantastic 15y ago
  Great post. I stopped drinking for good 2 years ago, after 20 odd years of being drunk pretty much every night. For me, the enjoyment was gone, and only the habit remained, along with a pile of worries about if/when my health would fail. After a rough few days, I've not looked back, and have no plans to drink again (I could never moderate). I too have lost weight, feel great, and still enjoy parties. My wife is somewhat dismayed that the stupid behaviour she put down to the drink is actually the real me and my warped mind! If you like drinking and can drink in moderation, then keep going, but if you need to stop, then go for it. Just stop fully, and stay stopped. NB: I found Allen Carr's "Easy Way to Control Alcohol" book useful - he uses some great imagery I found helpful in the early days after stopping.
• INTPenis 15y ago
  Insecure people drink because they can't deal with their real selves. If you're secure with who you are, you won't need to alter your mind to do something.
  • salemh 15y ago
    What is caffeine then?
• tluyben2 15y ago
  While of course his 'main idea' is solid; you don't need drugs (alcohol being a particularly addictive and unhealthy one) to have a good time, but saying that he never had “Wow, I’m so glad I did that thing I did last night. It’s significantly improved my life.“ => that's crap, at least, I am not him, but I have had that, so did all my friends. Of course you don't wake up and think 'it's significantly improved my life' (who thinks that??), but certainly 'i am so glad i did that last night'. When forced to think about that, then yes, it significantly improved my life; I met great friends and girlfriends (which I wouldn't have met in such short period otherwise and at the time that mattered to me), had conversations with friends which were far more honest than we would've had without drink. One case for instance I was at a very boring party, everyone was ready to go home at 10pm. I was together with my gf and we decided to drink some cocktails and go home too. After feeling a nice buzz, we started dancing alone on the big dance floor with almost no-one around (and surely no-one dancing). Another couple joined in a bit later, we started talking and that guy is now my best friend. This is over a decade ago. This would not have happened if both couples didn't drink; we would've gone home. I know there are people who can 'do this' without alcohol and now my wife and me can too, but back then it was just 'boring party, waste of time, bye' when sober. And I wouldn't like to have missed that for the world; there is almost no chance I would've met him otherwise (I know that in hindsight).
• Mindphreaker 15y ago
  I hardly post comments here but I have to thank you bub! I quit drinking for 3 years and unfortunately started it a year ago again. I quit drinking because of my aunt who died because of liver cirrhosis (result of alcohol addiction), started it again because the last year wasn't an easy one for me. :/ I was very proud that I could stop drinking and still having fun. I had the exact same moment you mentioned, where some random girl told me that I was sooo drunk yesterday and I just replied.. nope, I was sober. :D During my time drinking I lost extremely much of my former productivity. I have to admit I don't regret every drunk evening, there were some really good too! But I definitely lost mental strength during my drinking time. I had to lough at the point where you wrote about the lost money and in my case gained weight. That's all true too. I'll quit drinking again, one more time. :D
• known 15y ago
  Take one 250 mg Disulfiram pill and prevent http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A29443179 http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A29443179
• anonymous 15y ago
  > but top 5 worst days of my life were all recovering from a lot of drinking. Considering that this guy had cancer, his hangovers must have been of truly epic proportions.
• peteretep 15y ago
  Been doing this since January 1st. It's awesome. Try it.