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Yea, that is my understanding. He does call it a crazy theory, but its a whole different kind of crazy that most people think of. I've listened to him talk abou

Yea, that is my understanding. He does call it a crazy theory, but its a whole different kind of crazy that most people think of. I've listened to him talk about it and yea, when you actually listen to him you get the vibe of, "its an interesting idea that the math can't really prove or disprove, it may not be right, but it is an interesting thought experiment." I would say it is a step below Fred Hoyle. For those who don't know. Fred Hoyle held a rather unconventional idea or controversial idea of the steady state model, however he admitted he did it mostly to provoke conversation and knew that the more popular model held more water, so to say. An interesting side effect is, Fred Hoyle was able to help figure out how the heavier elements were made in the universe by entertaining his devil's advocate opposition.

sitkack 4y ago
Should we entertain unfalsifiable theories?
- bboygravity 4y ago
  "The Earth is round" was once an unsatisfiable theory for quite a while.
  - namaria 4y ago
    This is such a common trope. Erasthenes observed the Earth must be round using shadows over 2 thousand years ago. There was never an intellectual controversy about it before internet dupes fell for an obvious prank.
    - XorNot 4y ago
      There's nothing new in human experience. If we have flat Earthers now then they absolutely existed back then.
      - namaria 4y ago
        There is no historical record of such controversy. It's an easy question to answer with basic astronomy and geometry. The controversy is a modern manufacture and the cartoon trope of old timey misconceptions about the shape of Earth is not based on evidence. Those in a position to ask the question have always been in a position to reach the obvious answer.
        GoblinSlayer 4y ago
        Do you want to say that people didn't believe in flat earth?
        tcmart14 4y ago
        I would say, if you go back 2,000 years, most people probably never considered the question or cared. The ones who did were a small number of intellectuals. At some point, there probably was a debate among those. The peasants out in the field? Didn't know and probably didn't care and didn't matter.
    - GoblinSlayer 4y ago
      How about 2001 year ago?
      - namaria 4y ago
        The point is, it's an easy question to answer and it was as soon as it was posited. There was never a controversy recorded before this internet forum prank we have. The trope that people in olden times (usually some sort of renaissance/medieval mashup) were stupidly believing Earth had a flat shape has no basis in historical record.
        GoblinSlayer 4y ago
        There was a controversy about antipods.
- RealityVoid 4y ago
  They are not unfalsifiable, just unprovable. Unfalsifiable means they can not be proven wrong even with additional data, whereas these we just can't prove nor denie with current data, but we could if we found more data.
- Sakos 4y ago
  If you don't peddle it as the real solution with zero evidence or as anything other than an interesting thought experiment, why not? He's not starting a cult based on multiple big bangs. I think it's fine.
- mejutoco 4y ago
  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  I should have also been a little more specific with the "the math doesn't prove or disprove it" as in, "the math as it currently stands does not prove or disprove it." Which is true of a lot of theories in physics. There is a possibility and the math and experimentation isn't there yet to decide if the theory is correct or not. Not that the math will never come, but the equations are not there today. To answer the question, within reasonable limits, yes. If it is a thought experiment to provoke looking at a problem a different way, it could be useful. While Fred Hoyle's steady state theory didn't hold much water, using it as a basis to analyze certain problems, he was able to held figure out Nucleosynthesis. The problem is knowing the reasonable limits. Like, don't let it consume your entire life's work and use it as a means to analyze a problem from a different angle. In context of Roger Penrose, it may be illuminating. Right now, I imagine most are trying to solve the problem starting at the big bang and working backwards. Penrose is essentially trying to pick some arbitrary potential solution and asking, "if this is true, what else must be true" and seeing if he can work his way forward to the Big Bang or not.

sitkack 4y ago

Should we entertain unfalsifiable theories?

bboygravity 4y ago
"The Earth is round" was once an unsatisfiable theory for quite a while.
- namaria 4y ago
  This is such a common trope. Erasthenes observed the Earth must be round using shadows over 2 thousand years ago. There was never an intellectual controversy about it before internet dupes fell for an obvious prank.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    There's nothing new in human experience. If we have flat Earthers now then they absolutely existed back then.
    - namaria 4y ago
      There is no historical record of such controversy. It's an easy question to answer with basic astronomy and geometry. The controversy is a modern manufacture and the cartoon trope of old timey misconceptions about the shape of Earth is not based on evidence. Those in a position to ask the question have always been in a position to reach the obvious answer.
      - GoblinSlayer 4y ago
        Do you want to say that people didn't believe in flat earth?
        tcmart14 4y ago
        I would say, if you go back 2,000 years, most people probably never considered the question or cared. The ones who did were a small number of intellectuals. At some point, there probably was a debate among those. The peasants out in the field? Didn't know and probably didn't care and didn't matter.
  - GoblinSlayer 4y ago
    How about 2001 year ago?
    - namaria 4y ago
      The point is, it's an easy question to answer and it was as soon as it was posited. There was never a controversy recorded before this internet forum prank we have. The trope that people in olden times (usually some sort of renaissance/medieval mashup) were stupidly believing Earth had a flat shape has no basis in historical record.
      - GoblinSlayer 4y ago
        There was a controversy about antipods.
RealityVoid 4y ago
They are not unfalsifiable, just unprovable. Unfalsifiable means they can not be proven wrong even with additional data, whereas these we just can't prove nor denie with current data, but we could if we found more data.
Sakos 4y ago
If you don't peddle it as the real solution with zero evidence or as anything other than an interesting thought experiment, why not? He's not starting a cult based on multiple big bangs. I think it's fine.
mejutoco 4y ago
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle.
tcmart14 4y ago
I should have also been a little more specific with the "the math doesn't prove or disprove it" as in, "the math as it currently stands does not prove or disprove it." Which is true of a lot of theories in physics. There is a possibility and the math and experimentation isn't there yet to decide if the theory is correct or not. Not that the math will never come, but the equations are not there today. To answer the question, within reasonable limits, yes. If it is a thought experiment to provoke looking at a problem a different way, it could be useful. While Fred Hoyle's steady state theory didn't hold much water, using it as a basis to analyze certain problems, he was able to held figure out Nucleosynthesis. The problem is knowing the reasonable limits. Like, don't let it consume your entire life's work and use it as a means to analyze a problem from a different angle. In context of Roger Penrose, it may be illuminating. Right now, I imagine most are trying to solve the problem starting at the big bang and working backwards. Penrose is essentially trying to pick some arbitrary potential solution and asking, "if this is true, what else must be true" and seeing if he can work his way forward to the Big Bang or not.