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“Stability” over status: the article goes on to say that people are choosing (amongst other things) to freelance. It then goes on to talk about people moving to

• htag 4y ago
  [flagged]
• bb88 4y ago
  There is something to be said about being a former FAANG worker getting paid above average salary at (insert boring tech company here). Partially because maybe if they weren't seen as a 10x developer at FAANG with the competition all trying to make the next promotion, they surely might be close to one in any other company depending upon how good/bad that company's hiring has been (often terrible). Many F500 companies have crummy tech stacks and lousy in house developed systems that would be better replaced with counterpart open source systems. An ex-FAANG worker in the right job might be able to be a 10-100x force multiplier, just by building the right tech to make other developer's job simpler.
  • boredtofears 4y ago
    Highly doubt the bottom performers at FAANG during a period of mass overhiring are that much better than any average programmer at a boring tech co.
    • bb88 4y ago
      I don't doubt there are low performers at FAANG. I just believe when you're doing a 10% layoff, there's no way you're not going to cut high performers as well. Some layoffs are just purely based upon the department level.
      • ycombobreaker 4y ago
        Sure, there will be some high performers that get caught in that 10% net. The F500 shops wants their recruiting teams looking for those candidates, but they need protect themselves from adverse selection. An ex-FAANG developer who thinks they're 10x and is given unconstrained runway to prove (or disprove) it can cause a lot of damage to an unprepared but otherwise functional team of 1xers.
  • nwatson 4y ago
    I'm sceptical an F500 company would be willing to replace existing systems that are working ok and that integrate with their ERP system and the other cobbled-together offerings from their enterprise software/services vendor (eg Broadcom/AVGO). There's likely not much new there ... but maybe ChatGPT is an exception.
    • bb88 4y ago
      The best startup ideas often come from people who worked inside F500 companies and saw the inefficiencies with current vendored/home grown solutions.
      • throwaway2037 4y ago
        Good point. They also learn about the complexity of "purchasing". Also, I heard that the easiest startups target B2B, and avoid the dreaded B2C.
  • Nextgrid 4y ago
    As someone who's been both at top startups as well as boring tech companies, my experience suggests that it's not as much a difference of tech stacks or skills as opposed to priorities. For better or worse, in a lot of tech companies, tech wins hands-down. It has to be the "right" kind of tech (suggesting pragmatic but old-school solutions not fitting the current groupthink might not pan out), but generally, tech nevertheless works (maybe because there are enough resume-driven-developers that regardless of management/politics concerns, pushing for the right tech will always get enough people on your side to win). In legacy companies, tech alone won't get you very far regardless of its merits - if anything it's the opposite. "Too much" tech will actually be seen as a threat and you may encounter roadblocks, because the tech you're proposing is too good and will threaten some entrenched positions or entire departments within the company. If you want to succeed as a tech guy in a big legacy company as an employee, you need to stay within your lane and not push the boundaries - the boundaries you are being given (explicitly - or implicitly as in "why hasn't this been done before? this seems so easy") are there for a reason and are there to protect some position(s), and unless you have a direct relationship with the CEO and/or investors, you are unlikely to win this battle (it took me a firing to actually understand that). Remember that you may be hired to provide business value as much as you could be hired to be a number on some manager's direct report's list where your only true job is to pad that list and otherwise not rock the boat too much. On the other hand if you determine the limits and manage to automate day-to-day tasks well or at the very least automate the BS and make your workday enjoyable, it can be a nice cushy job that only require a couple hours a day - not to mention that doing the right favours to the right people will give you good career progression (if the company itself appears to be on solid foundations). Of course, please do any of the juniors a favour and try to explain them these dynamics in private, so they don't shoot themselves in the foot early and get fired by threatening some high-up position/department. TLDR: don't join a legacy company because of passion, but join it if you're ready to put morals/perfectionism aside and make a decent bit of dough. The reason their tech is so shit is not because of lack of skills or money but because a lot of existing money depends on nobody having those skills. If you can operate within that environment you will have a good time.
    • vegetablepotpie 4y ago
      I’m curious about your firing experience. What boundary did you push and was it explicitly stated or was it implicit?
  • yodsanklai 4y ago
    > An ex-FAANG worker in the right job might be able to be a 10-100x force multiplier, just by building the right tech to make other developer's job simpler I don't think your random FAANG worker could show up somewhere and just "build the right tech" on their own, especially in a not so good team. There are some very strong SWEs, but the average one isn't a super star. My experience working at a FAANG is that everyone in my team is good (able to solve problems, hard working, good foundational CS knowledge), and there may be 1-2 very strong ones who really make things happen. Also, a lot of the skills we develop are with our own internal systems, I don't know how easily it would transfer to open source world. In my previous company, there were some good engineers, but also some mediocre ones. This led to a lot of bikeshedding, wasted time trying to convince people, to review bad codes and so on. What I'm trying to say is that a very good engineer may not be able to unlock their potential in bad team, unless they also have good leadership skills.
    • ssttoo 4y ago
      There’s no need to build the right tech on their own. They can simply miss some tech and find a close enough FOSS or build a close enough version. Where “close enough” means build 80% with 20% effort. Or even 20% solution with a day of effort. Whatever makes sense in the new environment (which doesn’t need to scale to billion active users, for example)
    • blindriver 4y ago
      The top 1% of SWEs in any FAANG are world-class engineers and are unique. I'm talking about the John Carmack's of the world who are top of their field. The top 10% at FAANGs are game changers, and having them in any company would probably accelerate them. I've worked with some really extra ordinary, high-output engineers that were brilliant. The rest of the 89% are very, very ordinary. I'm at a FAANG and the vast majority are exactly like every other SWE I've worked with in my career. There's nothing special about them. I'm currently working with some of the laziest, dumbest SWEs in my career despite their employment at a FAANG. So to those that think FAANG is some badge of honor, don't believe the hype, I don't think FAANG employment is a meaningful signal at all.
      • 4y ago
  • austhrow743 4y ago
    If your goal is to implement open source systems are ex-FAANG workers the right choice? I would assume they'd be more likely to have experience with in house systems rather than implementing open source ones.
    • ctvo 4y ago
      > I would assume they'd be more likely to have experience with in house systems rather than implementing open source ones. Every hiring process I’ve been apart of (FAANG to startups) is an exercise in mostly measuring intelligence and empathy. That’s a long way of saying smart people aren’t limited by in house systems or open source ones. They’ll figure it out in a few days.
  • rqtwteye 4y ago
    “ An ex-FAANG worker in the right job might be able to be a 10-100x force multiplier,” From my experience they often have no idea how to deal with the typical corporate IT and the lack of ready to go infrastructure.
    • Nextgrid 4y ago
      > lack of ready to go infrastructure That's just an excuse and concealment of the real reason(s). If there's a will there's a way. It takes 5 minutes to open any could provider (or dedicated server host) account and all it needs is a credit card and billing address.
      • jahewson 4y ago
        Ha, I know people who would be fired for doing that.
        • ghaff 4y ago
          In this day and age just putting company business/data on a third-party provider with a personal credit card is probably at least grounds for a stern talking to at many companies.
          • Nextgrid 4y ago
            Depends how high-up you are. I can see this happening for an individual contributor, but much less for a head of department or CTO.
            • ghaff 4y ago
              Fair enough. And size of company matters too I’m sure.
      • rqtwteye 4y ago
        That’s not how it works in many corporations especially when you are dealing with sensitive data. You have to go through some kind of approval process.
  • jahewson 4y ago
    Ha ha oh did that make me laugh. Companies like that are not suffering from a tech problem, that is only the symptom. They’re suffering from a people problem, often a big entrenched structural one. You can throw all the smart engineers you want at them but they won’t be allowed to plan the work, do the work, given the necessary tools or have their work adopted. Plus you’ll first need to convince them to drop vendor x that someone influential and important decided to spend $y00,000 on.
  • senorrib 4y ago
    You don't just land in a place like that with SWE skills and suddenly affect change. Ordinary SWEs don't have enough leadership or management skills to understand the problems and coordinate the process of building a solution. A single person has only 8h a day (usually) to do anything, a great leader has many more hours than that. I'd say even FAANG employees who are top at their field aren't necessarily good with this skillset.
• alsetmusic 4y ago
  I worked on the top project at a FAANG company. I was burned out, in a terrible commute, and had to send my cats to live with a family member because I felt they couldn’t get enough attention from me. I now work at a small company (~22 people) making less money but with no expectation of OT or weekend pushes. Nobody’s ever heard of the company and that’s fine. I took the position to coast for a bit and found out I really like the vibe. I’ve been there for five years later this year. I have the luxury of being able to be paid less (no dependents), but boy is it great. Post-FAANG I have nothing to prove to anyone (including myself). I just want to pay bills and have a life. This gives me that.
  • jleyank 4y ago
    Did you get your cats back?
    • alsetmusic 4y ago
      Sadly, they were up in years and both died of old age in the care of my mother. However, she loved them like her own and I know they had a good life with her and her own cats. Thanks for asking. I have two furry friends again and plenty of time to dote on them.
      • jleyank 4y ago
        Good to hear. We have always had cats when we could and have found, like others, that their value increases as one gets older. Good to have a reason to get outside one’s head to appreciate or take care of others.
  • nemo44x 4y ago
    > I just want to pay bills and have a life. You value the right things. Congrats.
    • fnordpiglet 4y ago
      I could leave the bills frankly
• paulpauper 4y ago
  I’m not sure the author had a real point here. I’d love some hard data on how many people are pivoting to canned food companies after FAANG life I don't get this common/popular notion where just because you lose a lucrative job or opportunity that suddenly you become poor. What happens to all that accumulated $? Does it just go away? I think we want to believe that it does because it gives us comfort knowing that some sort of balance has been restored to the universe--that people have are so successful have to be reset to zero. People who lose their FANG jobs are still going to be in a better position, all else equal. Maybe they are in a better position by virtue of having more money and being more qualified or smarter, making finding a new job easier.
  • Nextgrid 4y ago
    > What happens to all that accumulated $? Does it just go away? It may not have been there in the first place. Lifestyle inflation is a thing.
    • paulpauper 4y ago
      it is a thing but also a choice
  • nemo44x 4y ago
    Imagine you recently bought a Bay Area house, a few kids, have day care and/or pre-school costs, various other debts, etc. Sure you were making a huge salary and hopefully have some savings. But it’s all relative and you’re just a middle class dude that can have family vacations that involve an airplane, all things considered. But you have a $8k mortgage payment due every 30 days. You can burn through savings real fast.
    • paulpauper 4y ago
      Regarding the home and mortgage, the wealth does not go away. The home can be sold and you keep all the equity, sans the mortgage. Of course, if the market crashes, then you've got a problem. THIs is is regardless if you have a job or not.
• hindsightbias 4y ago
  God forbid. HN is such an echo chamber - I’d bet 99% of the code written by these gods will be dead and unmaintainable in 3 years. In the meantime, the stuff that keeps the world spinning was written by some normie 30 years ago in RPG.
  • selimthegrim 4y ago
    RPG?
    • ghaff 4y ago
      Report Program Generator. Old IBM Series i / AS/400 language.
  • throwaway2037 4y ago
    I can vouch for commercial banking settlement systems. Far and away, they are running on IBM AS/400 mainframes. Most of the code is C or something before it. I have seen the source for more than a few in my career. The code is rock solid, if poorly tested, but it has been running so long that it is essentially bug free. If any changes need to be made, first, unit tests are written to find all the edge cases in old code. Then, refactor + add new business logic. It's not perfect, but it works much better than anyone from the outside could imagine. And, I agree with your "normie" comment. The code is _so_ bland. Zero tricks, ever. The goal is to write code that will last 15-30 years. No joke.
    • ornornor 4y ago
      > The code is _so_ bland. Zero tricks, ever. The goal is to write code that will last 15-30 years. No joke. This is the way all code should be written IMO. Hard to argue this and keep a straight face when JS is one of the most popular la gauge these days though :(