4 ms·

I love my T440p, and as a Linux machine it's great. But full disclosure, it's not perfect, a few drawbacks to be aware of: * Batteries can be hard to find, and

by javchz 4y ago

I love my T440p, and as a Linux machine it's great. But full disclosure, it's not perfect, a few drawbacks to be aware of: * Batteries can be hard to find, and they last 6 hours at most. * No USB-C docking capabilities (but you can use the old dock that uses the weird port under the laptop). Weirdly enough you can mod it to charge with a USB-C PD cable instead of the thinkpad one. * The iGPU is slow by today's standards. * The keyboard is okay, but was a downgrade from the T420 (aka the old IBM layout). * VS the T430, you don't have a way to connect a plugable PCI-e port. * The default screen it's horrible (but can be upgraded to a nice IPS full hd panel for not that much). If you're okay with that, despite its age it's a great machine, the CPU it's ok for most tasks, and gives you a chance to have an amazing control in your system from OS to BIOS (or well, as close as you can get without digging the full rabbit hole that are firmwares for other components). I say if you only look for bang for the buck... this it's not a machine for you, but it's more if you want a OSS community backed laptop, this it's the one for you in case you don't like the framework laptops.

ach_hm 4y ago
Would agree with that. Great Linux machine with that extra kilometer of freedom. With an upgraded CPU still powerful enough for 2023 and probably a few years to come. Probably one of the most powerful systems you can get with (nearly) free firmware and while not the best bang for the buck, probably the best bang for the buck for freedom that's available. I think all other systems with libre firmware are either way more expensive or less powerful … Would add to your points: * Rather heavy for a laptop (at least for my taste). * Very upgradeable, much cool! * You probably want to upgrade the touchpad to get separate trackpoint buttons. * To flash the firmware yourself you need to get access to both BIOS chips. To get to the second BIOS chip you need to nearly completely disassemble the machine. While not necessarily difficult to do, their is a good chance you have PTSD from breaking plastic clips afterwards …
rozenmd 4y ago
Alternatively, get a T480: https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for-under-500 https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for...
- windexh8er 4y ago
  In the article they (you?) say T480 and explicitly not T470. I own a T470 and have been using it only with Linux since new and would still highly recommend it. Some of the upgrades they did I had ordered from Lenovo upon order (screen, battery, RAM). Mine has a i7-7600U however, which is maybe where the differential they're referring to lies. The newer i5 has double the cores/threads to 4/8 vs 2/4 in the i7 of the T470. Regardless, the T470 is still my daily driver as my personal laptop and everything works as good as the day I bought it. It's still jarring typing on my M1 MBP 16 after spending any time on the T470. Apple still has garbage for keyboards. Have they gotten better? Sure. They're still horrible though.
  - rozenmd 4y ago
    Yeah I suggest a T480 for double the cores, but honestly the T470 isn't bad either.
urbandw311er 4y ago
Out of interest, since you and another commenter have both observed it’s not the best bang-for-buck, could you give an example of something that is? Or, at least, comes close?
- ach_hm 4y ago
  I can't give a specific example sadly. In my opinion it is not the best bang-for-buck because you need to luck for that specific model and the needed parts. I think you can find better deals if you are open e.g. for other Thinkpad models that are currently sold at a better price in your country but can't run Libre/Coreboot. I think T440ps are already out of the "companies are dumping them on the used market"-window so their are probably better deals with a bit younger models …
hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I think I have close to this, it’s effectively capped at 8gb of ram (I think 16gb sticks exist, but are very expensive), aside from that it’s perfect for a throw around machine. I buy them off eBay, and toss them to people (family, friends, employees), they’re brilliant all-in-one with cheap access to new power supplies, etc.
f1refly 4y ago
> Weirdly enough you can mod it to charge with a USB-C PD cable instead of the thinkpad one. Not weird at all, you just need a 20V decoy board, those can be bought for about a dollar a piece on ali. They obviously won't transfer data. It just so happens that the barrel charger module is in a nice separated large block of plastic that can be hollowed out to fit the usb c socket inside.
vaxman 4y ago
They buy this LibreBoot (blob-free CoreBoot, for the uninspired) …and then they go ahead and install Ubuntu on it?! No, no, actually they run IBM RHEL or its “free” variants! It’s all about unknown blobs (binary large objects) embedded in the dynamic processor microcode, firmware —even the chips themselves, even the FPGAs, even the sealed SoCs and processors …or is it? Maybe the LibreBoot Boys will actually load some obscure distro being maintained by some ethically challenged college-aged non-college students sharing an apartment and using a lot of mind altering substances? A few lines of obfuscated code here, a digital signature there and they have a backdoor “because they can.” Maybe they grow up, move on and another, more innocent, maintainer takes over and the backdoored project is incorporated into many more projects. SabreDAV? Arch? <DrEvil Voice> ReiserFS? So maybe the LibreBoot Boys are “smart” and run barebones Debian, but then…they start downloading containers because “everyone is doing it” Even if the container images are clean and competent (a big IF), the underlying network/firewall tech in their chosen container orchestration system is at a level of complexity many orders of magnitude above most admin competency —and some of those orchestration apps are also one-man bands, running out of a coffee shop by “some guy”, who probably is late on his rent open to a big bag of cash involving container signatures …or maybe they are just so financially distracted, the complex orchestration software that others are running critical infrastructure on is totally being ignored. How about infected blobs AND containers? Yes, many Chinese network routers/SANs now come this way. They even run forks of mainstream distros (like ImmortalWRT disguised as OpenWRT or some re-adulterated version of Ubuntu, neither of which anyone seems to be able to recreate with a matching binary signature, or even get to boot from the “open source” bits on Github). Some of these devices are then customized by American “brands” and resold to an unsuspecting Western public. ..and the commenters on here talking about wireless cards are spot on, it’s been known for 40 years —-not to mention that here in 2023, the wireless SoCs and network cards in general have reprogrammable firmware, in some cases, remotely reprogrammable firmware. Take a look at ESP32-C6…purpose built to give your devices a mind of their own. Nobody really knows what’s in the firmware. Some have assumptions based on “everyone is doing it” but that’s like eating hotdogs without thinking about how they are made —at least until one day you bite into one and find an eyeball. What to do? Start eating kosher hotdogs for a start and then use computer hardware and software that has passed similar kinds of checks. Oh, that’s right, there is almost nobody performing such checks on computers like there are on the kosher dogs (though Apple is trying). The fact is that we are already under attack like the ancient city of Troy (where a massive wooden horse was left outside the gates before being pulled inside as an accepted peace offering when out popped trojans wielding swords who let the rest of the army in). AT THIS HOUR the CCP military surrounds Taiwan using kinetic munitions during “exercises.” We have physical deterrents, they know it, and yet they keep preparing their military, probably because they can imagine “throwing the switch” and injecting (or triggering) viruses in firmware blobs, containers, “rock” chips, etc. throughout the West. As has repeatedly happened in certain US municipalities, someday our Western leaders could receive the “mother of all Chinese ransomware notes” and have to stand down and watch the world be conquered out of fear of another Great Depression triggered by Chinese computer viruses. Hopefully this saved someone a ticket to RSA (and who wants to get stabbed to death on the streets around Moscone anyway https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/911-audio-released-bob-lee-stabbing-17887129.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/911-audio-released-bo... ). Some good vendors are System 76 (pop_OS!), Apple, DELL and Cisco. Make your companies, industry regulators and local governments aware of these issues and maybe someday…

by javchz 4y ago

ach_hm 4y ago

Would agree with that. Great Linux machine with that extra kilometer of freedom. With an upgraded CPU still powerful enough for 2023 and probably a few years to come. Probably one of the most powerful systems you can get with (nearly) free firmware and while not the best bang for the buck, probably the best bang for the buck for freedom that's available. I think all other systems with libre firmware are either way more expensive or less powerful … Would add to your points: * Rather heavy for a laptop (at least for my taste). * Very upgradeable, much cool! * You probably want to upgrade the touchpad to get separate trackpoint buttons. * To flash the firmware yourself you need to get access to both BIOS chips. To get to the second BIOS chip you need to nearly completely disassemble the machine. While not necessarily difficult to do, their is a good chance you have PTSD from breaking plastic clips afterwards …

rozenmd 4y ago

Alternatively, get a T480: https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for-under-500 https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for...

windexh8er 4y ago
In the article they (you?) say T480 and explicitly not T470. I own a T470 and have been using it only with Linux since new and would still highly recommend it. Some of the upgrades they did I had ordered from Lenovo upon order (screen, battery, RAM). Mine has a i7-7600U however, which is maybe where the differential they're referring to lies. The newer i5 has double the cores/threads to 4/8 vs 2/4 in the i7 of the T470. Regardless, the T470 is still my daily driver as my personal laptop and everything works as good as the day I bought it. It's still jarring typing on my M1 MBP 16 after spending any time on the T470. Apple still has garbage for keyboards. Have they gotten better? Sure. They're still horrible though.
- rozenmd 4y ago
  Yeah I suggest a T480 for double the cores, but honestly the T470 isn't bad either.

urbandw311er 4y ago

Out of interest, since you and another commenter have both observed it’s not the best bang-for-buck, could you give an example of something that is? Or, at least, comes close?

ach_hm 4y ago
I can't give a specific example sadly. In my opinion it is not the best bang-for-buck because you need to luck for that specific model and the needed parts. I think you can find better deals if you are open e.g. for other Thinkpad models that are currently sold at a better price in your country but can't run Libre/Coreboot. I think T440ps are already out of the "companies are dumping them on the used market"-window so their are probably better deals with a bit younger models …

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago

I think I have close to this, it’s effectively capped at 8gb of ram (I think 16gb sticks exist, but are very expensive), aside from that it’s perfect for a throw around machine. I buy them off eBay, and toss them to people (family, friends, employees), they’re brilliant all-in-one with cheap access to new power supplies, etc.

f1refly 4y ago

> Weirdly enough you can mod it to charge with a USB-C PD cable instead of the thinkpad one. Not weird at all, you just need a 20V decoy board, those can be bought for about a dollar a piece on ali. They obviously won't transfer data. It just so happens that the barrel charger module is in a nice separated large block of plastic that can be hollowed out to fit the usb c socket inside.

vaxman 4y ago

They buy this LibreBoot (blob-free CoreBoot, for the uninspired) …and then they go ahead and install Ubuntu on it?! No, no, actually they run IBM RHEL or its “free” variants! It’s all about unknown blobs (binary large objects) embedded in the dynamic processor microcode, firmware —even the chips themselves, even the FPGAs, even the sealed SoCs and processors …or is it? Maybe the LibreBoot Boys will actually load some obscure distro being maintained by some ethically challenged college-aged non-college students sharing an apartment and using a lot of mind altering substances? A few lines of obfuscated code here, a digital signature there and they have a backdoor “because they can.” Maybe they grow up, move on and another, more innocent, maintainer takes over and the backdoored project is incorporated into many more projects. SabreDAV? Arch? <DrEvil Voice> ReiserFS? So maybe the LibreBoot Boys are “smart” and run barebones Debian, but then…they start downloading containers because “everyone is doing it” Even if the container images are clean and competent (a big IF), the underlying network/firewall tech in their chosen container orchestration system is at a level of complexity many orders of magnitude above most admin competency —and some of those orchestration apps are also one-man bands, running out of a coffee shop by “some guy”, who probably is late on his rent open to a big bag of cash involving container signatures …or maybe they are just so financially distracted, the complex orchestration software that others are running critical infrastructure on is totally being ignored. How about infected blobs AND containers? Yes, many Chinese network routers/SANs now come this way. They even run forks of mainstream distros (like ImmortalWRT disguised as OpenWRT or some re-adulterated version of Ubuntu, neither of which anyone seems to be able to recreate with a matching binary signature, or even get to boot from the “open source” bits on Github). Some of these devices are then customized by American “brands” and resold to an unsuspecting Western public. ..and the commenters on here talking about wireless cards are spot on, it’s been known for 40 years —-not to mention that here in 2023, the wireless SoCs and network cards in general have reprogrammable firmware, in some cases, remotely reprogrammable firmware. Take a look at ESP32-C6…purpose built to give your devices a mind of their own. Nobody really knows what’s in the firmware. Some have assumptions based on “everyone is doing it” but that’s like eating hotdogs without thinking about how they are made —at least until one day you bite into one and find an eyeball. What to do? Start eating kosher hotdogs for a start and then use computer hardware and software that has passed similar kinds of checks. Oh, that’s right, there is almost nobody performing such checks on computers like there are on the kosher dogs (though Apple is trying). The fact is that we are already under attack like the ancient city of Troy (where a massive wooden horse was left outside the gates before being pulled inside as an accepted peace offering when out popped trojans wielding swords who let the rest of the army in). AT THIS HOUR the CCP military surrounds Taiwan using kinetic munitions during “exercises.” We have physical deterrents, they know it, and yet they keep preparing their military, probably because they can imagine “throwing the switch” and injecting (or triggering) viruses in firmware blobs, containers, “rock” chips, etc. throughout the West. As has repeatedly happened in certain US municipalities, someday our Western leaders could receive the “mother of all Chinese ransomware notes” and have to stand down and watch the world be conquered out of fear of another Great Depression triggered by Chinese computer viruses. Hopefully this saved someone a ticket to RSA (and who wants to get stabbed to death on the streets around Moscone anyway https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/911-audio-released-bob-lee-stabbing-17887129.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/911-audio-released-bo... ). Some good vendors are System 76 (pop_OS!), Apple, DELL and Cisco. Make your companies, industry regulators and local governments aware of these issues and maybe someday…