6 ms·

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

by mikece 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sneak 4y ago
Wake up. I'm told Tesla has an undocumented factory option to buy a car without radios, for heads of state and their security and suchlike. I'm not sure how difficult or possible it is to actually get a car so configured, but you can always rip out the GSM radio yourself if you wish (which voids your warranty, natch).
jimlongton 4y ago
I work in the industry. It's not a "vehicle" any more - it's a "platform" to "engage" with customers, i.e. sell your data and lock features behind ridiculous monthly fees. That is now the mantra of the automotive industry. It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Wishing I still had my 89 Caprice with physical buttons and switches. Parts were insanely cheap too (except the transmission, which I part of why I got rid of it).
  - TylerE 4y ago
    You wouldn’t be wishing that the first time you were in an accident.
    - travisr 4y ago
      It’s sad that we have to choose between physical safety and privacy.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        There are some non-EVs that you can get with limited tech (until the newer laws kick in). You can disable the connection in some vehicles. For example, there are guides on how to disable onstar to various degrees (removing the antenna, removing the bridge to the network chip, etc). EVs tend to be tech heavy because the costs associates with them require targeting the premium market to make a profit.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      The theory would be to rebuild it with a roll cage, harness, etc for mixed use. In theory, these safety systems are superior to airbags. The only impediments to helmets/Hans with a real harness are people who don't use the existing seat belt (airbag can prevent ejection) and they are too inconvenient for the general public.
      - TylerE 4y ago
        absolutely not. Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet. Also two words: Crumple zones. You don’t want a super hard Skelton, that will only increase crash forces.
        giantg2 4y ago
        "Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet." No shit, that's why I mention a helmet. Roll cages, if properly done, do not affect crumple zones. The passenger compartment should not be crumbling and that's the only part a roll cage should be in. Keep in mind that actual race cars have a rigid occupant compartment, crash at higher speeds, and have great safety records due in part to the protection offered from a harness, helmet, and hans. On the other hand, airbags are more prone to failure and can injure or even kill people. The only reason I mention a roll cage is because it would be for dual use. You could use a helmet/hans in place of an airbag in a regular street car and would likely be safer. Again, the only reasons we have for not doing that is that some people don't use their seat belts and most people would find it inconvenient.
        dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
        I think crumple zones are unrelated to the roll cage in GP's comment. It's nice to have a crumple zone, right?
    - dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
      Sad reality of it all! Want safety? Buy this engagement platform.
  - croutonwagon 4y ago
    This is why I’m keeping my 09 Toyota. Upgraded the radio to a CarPlay capable head unit. But it was the perfect fit of modern safety features, a couple nice to haves like backup camera, but none of that always connected on star style crap. Will drive it till it rusts out and in praying the market will have corrected by then
    - jimt1234 4y ago
      I still own a 2000 Nissan with a cassette deck. I just wish it had a manual transmission, too.
- m463 4y ago
  > It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars. ... and televisions, and phone apps, and solar inverters (with wifi!) and air purifiers (with wifi!) and drones (with wifi to activate) and scooters (to activate), and on and on...
  - the_snooze 4y ago
    Consumer tech takes a lot of cues from domestic abusers. “I want to know everything about you and who you talk to.” “I will do what I want to you with little notice or recourse.” “You can’t leave me that easily.”
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      I would assert that consumer tech manufacturers are domestic abusers when they take things to this level.
    - daniel_reetz 4y ago
      Also making the victim believe they are at fault for the abusive behavior. I can't count the number of times I've heard naive users blame themselves when it's a device/system/app misaligned with their interests.
  - DesiLurker 4y ago
    It seems to me that we have long past the road building stage in US economy & now mostly in toll-booths stage of things. I wonder if we will ever go back. Maybe AI will change that but not very hopeful.
- stalfosknight 4y ago
  Why does everyfuckingthing have to be about "engaging" with customers? Why can't people just be left with their private business?
  - beepbooptheory 4y ago
    Because from the companies point of view, what's the real downside? If their goal was to simply make a good product, then none of this stuff would really be used, but they have longterm growth to think about too!
- everdrive 4y ago
  This is the most depressing thing I’ve read all day. I have two trucks. A 2010, and 1998. I was going to sell the 2010 for redundancy, but I don’t think I can. The 2010 is in pristine condition, and should last another decade if I’m careful with it. I’ll have to acquiesce to the modern trend with cars eventually, but I hope to hold out as long as I can.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    My daily driver is a '97 and it's not going to get sold, ever, until it falls apart.
- cryptoegorophy 4y ago
  Same as gaming apps on the phone. Good old days had no pay to win models.
- AndrewOMartin 4y ago
  They could steal a term from gaming and call a car a "drive service".
throwaway50609 4y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Can you link to this regulation or coverage of it? I can find a proposed requirement for data portability when cars are connected (the European Data Act; https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_1113 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...) but nothing of the nature you're describing.
  - throwaway50609 4y ago
    It's named eCall
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      eCall is not permanently connected to GSM network
  - eternalban 4y ago
    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... -- from source -- Compulsory for new car models If you buy a new model of car, approved for manufacture after 31 March 2018, it must have the 112-based eCall system installed. This rule applies both to cars with no more than 8 seats and light commercial vehicles. If you have a car which is already registered, you are not obliged to retrofit an eCall device but you can have it installed if your car meets the technical requirements.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > Your eCall system is only activated if your vehicle is involved in a serious accident. The rest of the time the system remains inactive. This means that when you are simply driving your vehicle, no tracking (registering your car's position or monitoring your driving) or transmission of data takes place. I'm not inclined to see this as anything remotely similar to what a Tesla has, and would hesitate to call it a "connected car" off such a feature by itself. The claim of "connected at all times" appears to also be a falsehood.
survirtual 4y ago
That is the vehicle I want. A bare bones, maximum efficiency, rugged EV. A man can dream.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  I think we'll start to see ICE-to-EV conversion kits become more popular over the next decade or so. So you may get your wish, just not with a brand-new car.
  - asdff 4y ago
    I think that's a pipe dream. Changing the powerplant on a car is not cheap at all, and thats when you are doing a 1 to 1 swap with something the car is built to handle. The battery array needs to go someplace too and it is quite large and heavy.
    - survirtual 4y ago
      Thanks for saying it, I didn’t have the energy to. ICE to EV has been around for a while before EV’s were mainstream and was much more expensive ultimately than buying a new Tesla, with significantly lower construction quality and performance results.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
BMW i3 was such a car, but they stopped making it. I loved mine (2014) but sold it needing longer range than first year battery size allowed.
- progman32 4y ago
  Current owner of a '14 i3. Sorry, but the i3 has a telematics module and a cell modem. It talks to BMW. The first gen ones only have a 3g modem though, so at least they are muzzled in areas that have dropped that network.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    true, true. i could get simple remote control and status via the MyBMW app, but it wasn't video recording me.
ctvo 4y ago
> Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels. This is an easy way to excuse Tesla's behavior. You're implying everyone does it. <shrug> What can ya do, right? There's 0 evidence other car companies are allowing PII like this to be spread internally, and employees are so brazen as to use them as the basis for memes.
- mikece 4y ago
  I'm saying exactly the opposite. I will never consider getting an EV as long as it's full-time tethered to the mothership and my car can be deactivated/bricked/broken remotely either on purpose or by accident. I want my car to be MY property, not a device obeying inputs from someone somewhere else. And absolutely no surveillance built in. Until then I'll stick to gasoline cars.
  - croutonwagon 4y ago
    A lot of gas cars do this too. With services like onstar and low rate data connections either via satellite or even lte etc. Many modern cars are this way. Tesla is just egregious about it. Ford, Toyota etc can still do it. Remember the remote start payment plan for Toyota? https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-... Or even the reports of hacking a cars canbus? https://www.dmv.com/blog/can-your-car-be-remotely-hacked-523252?tg1=DVA&utm_content=dmv.com&utm_medium=dmv_&tg7=dmv_&utm_source=dmv.com&tg9=dmv.com&utm_term=organic_dmv&utm_campaign=organic_dmv https://www.dmv.com/blog/can-your-car-be-remotely-hacked-523... All that said though. I totally agree. I will never drive a car like this or one that tells me I need to update before I can drive. And if I do get a computer car (at least one like a Tesla that runs something resembling a Linux or bsd kernel, then I would expect to be able to access that system just like the engine etc). It’s my property.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Even without the privacy issues, I want cars that are simple and have less tech. The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Even so, there are documented security issues with most connected vehicles.
jjulius 4y ago
The Nissan Leaf is exactly that. I don't pay for any service that connects it to the cloud. It's a standalone device.
- rationalist 4y ago
  > I don't pay for any service that connects it to the cloud. So it has the capability to connect? No thanks. I don't think that's the distinction OP was trying to make.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >So it has the capability to connect? No thanks. All well and good for you, and I don't fault you for making that decision for yourself. OP's stated requirement was... >not an always-connected surveillance device ... which without opting into the service, the Leaf is not. Happy to have OP clarify for themselves, though.
    - RussianCow 4y ago
      The fact that you don't pay for it doesn't guarantee that it doesn't still connect to the cloud and share your data.
    - rationalist 4y ago
      > always-connected I'm betting the car always connects, it's just whether or not you enable any benefits of the connection. Anyone with actual knowledge about cars with such devices willing to chime in? Edit: consider how the car knows whether or not you're paying for any service.
      - wcunning 4y ago
        Work in the industry -- the reason you have to pay is that the companies do not contract with Verizon/ATT/Tmo to have always on connection unless you eat the cost. This is changing going forward due to the value of always on system monitoring (DTCs, oil change interval etc) to say you didn't do your part and the warranty is void, but that's not on stuff from the last 10 years and won't ever be. Also, current things don't benefit past the warranty period, which is why you have to pay beyond that point if you want e.g. remote start. This will change in the next couple of years with OTA updates and whatnot, but that's only now on Mercedes/BMW/etc and only just getting onto Ford/GM/Stellantis/etc.
heresie-dabord 4y ago
False constraint. Not all EVs are made in a country with lax privacy laws. I have a European-made EV that has no "intelligent" (surveillance) capability at all.
jackmott42 4y ago
Wake up, every car is like this, not just EVs
- LightBug1 4y ago
  I drive a 69 Beetle.
paxys 4y ago
You'd have better luck moving to a country with privacy laws. This problem isn't restricted to EVs. Every new car has all these same "features" now.
rootusrootus 4y ago
Chevy Bolt. There are others, too, not every EV is trying to copy Tesla. Yes, OnStar, but that's 1) not specific to EVs, and 2) trivial to disable.
- 98codes 4y ago
  GM isn't nearly immune to this BS: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/31/23664814/gm-ev-restrict-apple-carplay-android-auto-google https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/31/23664814/gm-ev-restrict-a...
barbazoo 4y ago
Cars being "connected" is orthogonal to cars being EVs so keep an eye on non-EVs with that crap installed too.
lostlogin 4y ago
A Leaf.
rsync 4y ago
Our Chevy bolt was just that. Just a normal car, but electric. We have an Audi etron now and I can’t stand it. I miss the bolt.
- pilingual 4y ago
  The Bolt itself was excellent, app was hands down the worst app I've ever installed on my phone. What is wrong with the Audi?
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels. Dacia Spring if you live in Europe. Doesn't get any more barebones than that.
Youden 4y ago
I have a Kia EV6. It's perfectly functional without an internet connection.
jimt1234 4y ago
Give me the original Tesla Roadster - a bunch of batteries, cool looking, and four wheels. That's it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKDqhWwzzgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKDqhWwzzgo
speedgoose 4y ago
It’s time to wake up.
benhurmarcel 4y ago
That's most EVs outside of Tesla and startups.

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

by mikece 4y ago

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sneak 4y ago

Wake up. I'm told Tesla has an undocumented factory option to buy a car without radios, for heads of state and their security and suchlike. I'm not sure how difficult or possible it is to actually get a car so configured, but you can always rip out the GSM radio yourself if you wish (which voids your warranty, natch).

jimlongton 4y ago

I work in the industry. It's not a "vehicle" any more - it's a "platform" to "engage" with customers, i.e. sell your data and lock features behind ridiculous monthly fees. That is now the mantra of the automotive industry. It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars.

giantg2 4y ago
Wishing I still had my 89 Caprice with physical buttons and switches. Parts were insanely cheap too (except the transmission, which I part of why I got rid of it).
- TylerE 4y ago
  You wouldn’t be wishing that the first time you were in an accident.
  - travisr 4y ago
    It’s sad that we have to choose between physical safety and privacy.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      There are some non-EVs that you can get with limited tech (until the newer laws kick in). You can disable the connection in some vehicles. For example, there are guides on how to disable onstar to various degrees (removing the antenna, removing the bridge to the network chip, etc). EVs tend to be tech heavy because the costs associates with them require targeting the premium market to make a profit.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    The theory would be to rebuild it with a roll cage, harness, etc for mixed use. In theory, these safety systems are superior to airbags. The only impediments to helmets/Hans with a real harness are people who don't use the existing seat belt (airbag can prevent ejection) and they are too inconvenient for the general public.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      absolutely not. Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet. Also two words: Crumple zones. You don’t want a super hard Skelton, that will only increase crash forces.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        "Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet." No shit, that's why I mention a helmet. Roll cages, if properly done, do not affect crumple zones. The passenger compartment should not be crumbling and that's the only part a roll cage should be in. Keep in mind that actual race cars have a rigid occupant compartment, crash at higher speeds, and have great safety records due in part to the protection offered from a harness, helmet, and hans. On the other hand, airbags are more prone to failure and can injure or even kill people. The only reason I mention a roll cage is because it would be for dual use. You could use a helmet/hans in place of an airbag in a regular street car and would likely be safer. Again, the only reasons we have for not doing that is that some people don't use their seat belts and most people would find it inconvenient.
        dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
        I think crumple zones are unrelated to the roll cage in GP's comment. It's nice to have a crumple zone, right?
  - dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
    Sad reality of it all! Want safety? Buy this engagement platform.
- croutonwagon 4y ago
  This is why I’m keeping my 09 Toyota. Upgraded the radio to a CarPlay capable head unit. But it was the perfect fit of modern safety features, a couple nice to haves like backup camera, but none of that always connected on star style crap. Will drive it till it rusts out and in praying the market will have corrected by then
  - jimt1234 4y ago
    I still own a 2000 Nissan with a cassette deck. I just wish it had a manual transmission, too.
m463 4y ago
> It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars. ... and televisions, and phone apps, and solar inverters (with wifi!) and air purifiers (with wifi!) and drones (with wifi to activate) and scooters (to activate), and on and on...
- the_snooze 4y ago
  Consumer tech takes a lot of cues from domestic abusers. “I want to know everything about you and who you talk to.” “I will do what I want to you with little notice or recourse.” “You can’t leave me that easily.”
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    I would assert that consumer tech manufacturers are domestic abusers when they take things to this level.
  - daniel_reetz 4y ago
    Also making the victim believe they are at fault for the abusive behavior. I can't count the number of times I've heard naive users blame themselves when it's a device/system/app misaligned with their interests.
- DesiLurker 4y ago
  It seems to me that we have long past the road building stage in US economy & now mostly in toll-booths stage of things. I wonder if we will ever go back. Maybe AI will change that but not very hopeful.
stalfosknight 4y ago
Why does everyfuckingthing have to be about "engaging" with customers? Why can't people just be left with their private business?
- beepbooptheory 4y ago
  Because from the companies point of view, what's the real downside? If their goal was to simply make a good product, then none of this stuff would really be used, but they have longterm growth to think about too!
everdrive 4y ago
This is the most depressing thing I’ve read all day. I have two trucks. A 2010, and 1998. I was going to sell the 2010 for redundancy, but I don’t think I can. The 2010 is in pristine condition, and should last another decade if I’m careful with it. I’ll have to acquiesce to the modern trend with cars eventually, but I hope to hold out as long as I can.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  My daily driver is a '97 and it's not going to get sold, ever, until it falls apart.
cryptoegorophy 4y ago
Same as gaming apps on the phone. Good old days had no pay to win models.
AndrewOMartin 4y ago
They could steal a term from gaming and call a car a "drive service".

throwaway50609 4y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 4y ago
Can you link to this regulation or coverage of it? I can find a proposed requirement for data portability when cars are connected (the European Data Act; https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_1113 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...) but nothing of the nature you're describing.
- throwaway50609 4y ago
  It's named eCall
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    eCall is not permanently connected to GSM network
- eternalban 4y ago
  https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... -- from source -- Compulsory for new car models If you buy a new model of car, approved for manufacture after 31 March 2018, it must have the 112-based eCall system installed. This rule applies both to cars with no more than 8 seats and light commercial vehicles. If you have a car which is already registered, you are not obliged to retrofit an eCall device but you can have it installed if your car meets the technical requirements.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > Your eCall system is only activated if your vehicle is involved in a serious accident. The rest of the time the system remains inactive. This means that when you are simply driving your vehicle, no tracking (registering your car's position or monitoring your driving) or transmission of data takes place. I'm not inclined to see this as anything remotely similar to what a Tesla has, and would hesitate to call it a "connected car" off such a feature by itself. The claim of "connected at all times" appears to also be a falsehood.

survirtual 4y ago

That is the vehicle I want. A bare bones, maximum efficiency, rugged EV. A man can dream.

CamperBob2 4y ago
I think we'll start to see ICE-to-EV conversion kits become more popular over the next decade or so. So you may get your wish, just not with a brand-new car.
- asdff 4y ago
  I think that's a pipe dream. Changing the powerplant on a car is not cheap at all, and thats when you are doing a 1 to 1 swap with something the car is built to handle. The battery array needs to go someplace too and it is quite large and heavy.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    Thanks for saying it, I didn’t have the energy to. ICE to EV has been around for a while before EV’s were mainstream and was much more expensive ultimately than buying a new Tesla, with significantly lower construction quality and performance results.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

BMW i3 was such a car, but they stopped making it. I loved mine (2014) but sold it needing longer range than first year battery size allowed.

progman32 4y ago
Current owner of a '14 i3. Sorry, but the i3 has a telematics module and a cell modem. It talks to BMW. The first gen ones only have a 3g modem though, so at least they are muzzled in areas that have dropped that network.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  true, true. i could get simple remote control and status via the MyBMW app, but it wasn't video recording me.

ctvo 4y ago

> Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels. This is an easy way to excuse Tesla's behavior. You're implying everyone does it. <shrug> What can ya do, right? There's 0 evidence other car companies are allowing PII like this to be spread internally, and employees are so brazen as to use them as the basis for memes.

mikece 4y ago
I'm saying exactly the opposite. I will never consider getting an EV as long as it's full-time tethered to the mothership and my car can be deactivated/bricked/broken remotely either on purpose or by accident. I want my car to be MY property, not a device obeying inputs from someone somewhere else. And absolutely no surveillance built in. Until then I'll stick to gasoline cars.
- croutonwagon 4y ago
  A lot of gas cars do this too. With services like onstar and low rate data connections either via satellite or even lte etc. Many modern cars are this way. Tesla is just egregious about it. Ford, Toyota etc can still do it. Remember the remote start payment plan for Toyota? https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-... Or even the reports of hacking a cars canbus? https://www.dmv.com/blog/can-your-car-be-remotely-hacked-523252?tg1=DVA&utm_content=dmv.com&utm_medium=dmv_&tg7=dmv_&utm_source=dmv.com&tg9=dmv.com&utm_term=organic_dmv&utm_campaign=organic_dmv https://www.dmv.com/blog/can-your-car-be-remotely-hacked-523... All that said though. I totally agree. I will never drive a car like this or one that tells me I need to update before I can drive. And if I do get a computer car (at least one like a Tesla that runs something resembling a Linux or bsd kernel, then I would expect to be able to access that system just like the engine etc). It’s my property.
giantg2 4y ago
Even without the privacy issues, I want cars that are simple and have less tech. The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Even so, there are documented security issues with most connected vehicles.

jjulius 4y ago

The Nissan Leaf is exactly that. I don't pay for any service that connects it to the cloud. It's a standalone device.

rationalist 4y ago
> I don't pay for any service that connects it to the cloud. So it has the capability to connect? No thanks. I don't think that's the distinction OP was trying to make.
- jjulius 4y ago
  >So it has the capability to connect? No thanks. All well and good for you, and I don't fault you for making that decision for yourself. OP's stated requirement was... >not an always-connected surveillance device ... which without opting into the service, the Leaf is not. Happy to have OP clarify for themselves, though.
  - RussianCow 4y ago
    The fact that you don't pay for it doesn't guarantee that it doesn't still connect to the cloud and share your data.
  - rationalist 4y ago
    > always-connected I'm betting the car always connects, it's just whether or not you enable any benefits of the connection. Anyone with actual knowledge about cars with such devices willing to chime in? Edit: consider how the car knows whether or not you're paying for any service.
    - wcunning 4y ago
      Work in the industry -- the reason you have to pay is that the companies do not contract with Verizon/ATT/Tmo to have always on connection unless you eat the cost. This is changing going forward due to the value of always on system monitoring (DTCs, oil change interval etc) to say you didn't do your part and the warranty is void, but that's not on stuff from the last 10 years and won't ever be. Also, current things don't benefit past the warranty period, which is why you have to pay beyond that point if you want e.g. remote start. This will change in the next couple of years with OTA updates and whatnot, but that's only now on Mercedes/BMW/etc and only just getting onto Ford/GM/Stellantis/etc.

heresie-dabord 4y ago

False constraint. Not all EVs are made in a country with lax privacy laws. I have a European-made EV that has no "intelligent" (surveillance) capability at all.

jackmott42 4y ago

Wake up, every car is like this, not just EVs

LightBug1 4y ago
I drive a 69 Beetle.

paxys 4y ago

You'd have better luck moving to a country with privacy laws. This problem isn't restricted to EVs. Every new car has all these same "features" now.

rootusrootus 4y ago

Chevy Bolt. There are others, too, not every EV is trying to copy Tesla. Yes, OnStar, but that's 1) not specific to EVs, and 2) trivial to disable.

98codes 4y ago
GM isn't nearly immune to this BS: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/31/23664814/gm-ev-restrict-apple-carplay-android-auto-google https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/31/23664814/gm-ev-restrict-a...

barbazoo 4y ago

Cars being "connected" is orthogonal to cars being EVs so keep an eye on non-EVs with that crap installed too.

lostlogin 4y ago

A Leaf.

rsync 4y ago

Our Chevy bolt was just that. Just a normal car, but electric. We have an Audi etron now and I can’t stand it. I miss the bolt.

pilingual 4y ago
The Bolt itself was excellent, app was hands down the worst app I've ever installed on my phone. What is wrong with the Audi?

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels. Dacia Spring if you live in Europe. Doesn't get any more barebones than that.

Youden 4y ago

I have a Kia EV6. It's perfectly functional without an internet connection.

jimt1234 4y ago

Give me the original Tesla Roadster - a bunch of batteries, cool looking, and four wheels. That's it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKDqhWwzzgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKDqhWwzzgo

speedgoose 4y ago

It’s time to wake up.

benhurmarcel 4y ago

That's most EVs outside of Tesla and startups.