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Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. We still need vehicles people can sit ins

Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. We still need vehicles people can sit inside of, that can carry things, in the rain, sleet, snow. We need more micromobility options of all shapes and sizes. And we need places to put them and ride them; not just protected bike lanes, but bike and scooter racks, public chargers. It would be much cheaper to start factories in the US to provide micromobility solutions, as compared to electric car and battery factories. We could actually create more jobs, as well as better solutions for people in cities. The results would cost less and enable more transportation. But large corporations essentially own the government. There is an entire ecosystem of products and services surrounding cars, and they generate a tremendous amount of wealth that feeds the political machine. Low-cost small-scale electric transportation doesn't make anywhere close to as much money, so it's no wonder it's not promoted.

Dylan16807 4y ago
> Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. 1. What percentage? 2. I feel like we don't need to worry about that until bike use is on track to well over 50%.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  You don't want to worry about people who can't ride bikes until more people ride bikes? Not everyone can walk, for one thing. What percentage? I dunno. Should we ask the ADA to stop pestering us about those damn people who keep complaining about not being able to go up stairs? There's a lot of overweight people in this country. Over 40% are obese. Should we just not give a shit if they can get around? Again, it seems that, unfortunately, the government actually does care, a bit. There's the elderly. Your grandma may be racing around town in her 90s, but my grandma cannot use a bike. And there's families / single mothers who don't have child care and can't go run errands without bringing their kids with them. There are bike-things that sort of work for bringing kids on bikes, but many find it dangerous, they're expensive, bulky, and just not convenient when you need to also bring home groceries. These are real people with real problems that should be considered when we're building the future of cities.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Those are not significant problems in an environment that encourages merely 50% bike use. They should be "considered", but avoiding harm to those people is something that would require minimal impact to the plans at that stage. So I stand by not worrying about it at this point. "Don't worry until we're on track to 50%" and "Don't worry ever" are very different suggestions.
SamuelAdams 4y ago
Yeah in my Michigan city we deal with sleet and snow every day for 4 months. You also bring up other valid concerns. Where are people supposed to park their bikes for work, or going into a grocery store? We have a big enough problem with regular manual powered bicycles getting stolen, what makes you think an e-bike that is 2-5x more expensive is going to be more secure?
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Grand Rapids?
- goosedragons 4y ago
  2 parking spots is space for like what 20 bikes?
  - giaour 4y ago
    In theory, yes, but it doesn't do you any good if no one's installed bike racks near your destination. I live in a pretty bike friendly suburb but I still have to drive to a destination and scope out the bike parking situation before I'll bike instead of drive
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      > scope out the bike parking situation before I'll bike instead of drive Yet another thing to consider when I theorize rather than practice riding a bike in the city instead of driving.
- iknowstuff 4y ago
  Well in a place with shitty infrastructure you lock it to a pole. In a better place, there will be a bike rack which is 100x cheaper than a car parking spot. "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
- panick21_ 4y ago
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Yes, if we look to places like Finland that have a high percentage of bikers, we'll find a very temperate climate. This clearly only works in places without snow. I'm not sure why people ignore this argument in every single comment thread about bikes.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  Finland, very temperate climate—you're joking, right?
bart_spoon 4y ago
I’m a former Mormon missionary who rode a bike in very snowy, rural areas of northern Hokkaido, Japan in the dead of winter. Snow really doesn’t pose much of an issue for biking. People assume it’s a non-starter but it’s very feasible.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
forgetbook 4y ago
"vehicles people can sit inside of, that can carry things, in the rain, sleet, snow" sounds ~= cars to me. Could small, electric cars fit this problem?
timbit42 4y ago
There are ebikes with three or four wheels and enclosed to protect from the elements. Examples are the Organic Transit ELF and the BetterBikes PEBL.

Dylan16807 4y ago

> Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. 1. What percentage? 2. I feel like we don't need to worry about that until bike use is on track to well over 50%.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
You don't want to worry about people who can't ride bikes until more people ride bikes? Not everyone can walk, for one thing. What percentage? I dunno. Should we ask the ADA to stop pestering us about those damn people who keep complaining about not being able to go up stairs? There's a lot of overweight people in this country. Over 40% are obese. Should we just not give a shit if they can get around? Again, it seems that, unfortunately, the government actually does care, a bit. There's the elderly. Your grandma may be racing around town in her 90s, but my grandma cannot use a bike. And there's families / single mothers who don't have child care and can't go run errands without bringing their kids with them. There are bike-things that sort of work for bringing kids on bikes, but many find it dangerous, they're expensive, bulky, and just not convenient when you need to also bring home groceries. These are real people with real problems that should be considered when we're building the future of cities.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Those are not significant problems in an environment that encourages merely 50% bike use. They should be "considered", but avoiding harm to those people is something that would require minimal impact to the plans at that stage. So I stand by not worrying about it at this point. "Don't worry until we're on track to 50%" and "Don't worry ever" are very different suggestions.

SamuelAdams 4y ago

Yeah in my Michigan city we deal with sleet and snow every day for 4 months. You also bring up other valid concerns. Where are people supposed to park their bikes for work, or going into a grocery store? We have a big enough problem with regular manual powered bicycles getting stolen, what makes you think an e-bike that is 2-5x more expensive is going to be more secure?

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Grand Rapids?
goosedragons 4y ago
2 parking spots is space for like what 20 bikes?
- giaour 4y ago
  In theory, yes, but it doesn't do you any good if no one's installed bike racks near your destination. I live in a pretty bike friendly suburb but I still have to drive to a destination and scope out the bike parking situation before I'll bike instead of drive
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > scope out the bike parking situation before I'll bike instead of drive Yet another thing to consider when I theorize rather than practice riding a bike in the city instead of driving.
iknowstuff 4y ago
Well in a place with shitty infrastructure you lock it to a pole. In a better place, there will be a bike rack which is 100x cheaper than a car parking spot. "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
panick21_ 4y ago

micromacrofoot 4y ago

Yes, if we look to places like Finland that have a high percentage of bikers, we'll find a very temperate climate. This clearly only works in places without snow. I'm not sure why people ignore this argument in every single comment thread about bikes.

frosted-flakes 4y ago
Finland, very temperate climate—you're joking, right?

bart_spoon 4y ago

I’m a former Mormon missionary who rode a bike in very snowy, rural areas of northern Hokkaido, Japan in the dead of winter. Snow really doesn’t pose much of an issue for biking. People assume it’s a non-starter but it’s very feasible.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

forgetbook 4y ago

"vehicles people can sit inside of, that can carry things, in the rain, sleet, snow" sounds ~= cars to me. Could small, electric cars fit this problem?

timbit42 4y ago

There are ebikes with three or four wheels and enclosed to protect from the elements. Examples are the Organic Transit ELF and the BetterBikes PEBL.