4 ms·

My dad is 4 years younger than his age on paper. He had no birth certificate when he was born and when he was finally being put in school, being home schooled s

My dad is 4 years younger than his age on paper. He had no birth certificate when he was born and when he was finally being put in school, being home schooled so far, was able to answer questions like a 3rd grader. So the school decided to put him in 4th grade and just made up his birth year (dad's family knew the date but that would make him ineligible for 4th grade).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
steveBK123 4y ago
While not as extreme, many of the real-official birthdays straddle month end / month starts. In one case it kicked someones birthdate to a new calendar year and his pension kicks in a year later as a result. They always joke the donkey was slow and cost him an extra year of work.
jefftk 4y ago
The school couldn't tell from looking at him that he was closer to Kindergarten-aged (5) than 4th grade (9) !?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  The school didn’t care. They didn’t want him to repeat grades if he already knew everything. They were focussed on his development than arbitrary restrictions around age.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    OK, but physical development is important too. Middle school would be rough as a 9/10 year old. He was 14 graduating from high school?
    - ptero 4y ago
      The "elementary/middle/high school" distinction might have been virtual. My grandfather told me that most rural schools in his time, including the one he went to, had several grades in a single room. Occasionally a single room for all students. For "elementary" grades it would be primarily by function (can read? can write? can count?) rather than age. And it would not be uncommon to have a much older kid from a poor family sit with little kids at the "cannot read" table. In this setup jumping a grade could be as simple as sitting at the next table. Can read -- go there. Can count -- one more step. Physical development came from carrying water, herding cattle, bringing and splitting firewood, etc. outside of school.
      - brewdad 4y ago
        That's a more severe version of what my child had in elementary school. To keep classes the right size, they would have a few 1st grade classes and a few 2nd grade classes and one 1st/2nd shared classroom. Repeat for each of the following years. My child was always put in the younger half of the shared classroom. After 3rd grade the principal invited them join the regular 5th grade class and skip 4th grade altogether.
        Consultant32452 4y ago
        This arrangement is by design in some teaching styles, like Montessori. Unfortunately the Montessori schools in my area aged out after Elementary, would've loved to keep my daughter in that kind of environment.
    - vkou 4y ago
      Middle school isn't a universal thing, a lot of places have just elementary (~1-7), and high (~8-12) school. And the grades mix/don't mix on their own volition at lunch and recess, anyways.
- csomar 4y ago
  There was less "authority" back then. If you showed up to a school in the 1930s, they'll put you in some class. There won't be any serious paper work, no questions about where you are coming from or if you were residing near the school. The authority was manifested by the teachers/school itself rather than the state. To give you a better perspective, if you were traveling back then, border control will be the only deciding body of whether you make it or not. Nowadays, you only show up at the border if the "State" has determined that you are admissible. Border control still has a say in the matter but that's power is getting smaller and smaller. It's a paradox, because while the bureaucracy has increased and ossified, there was a lack of accountability back then. If the teacher of that school decided that you are inadmissible, you are pretty much out of option. Finally, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia to show you how much things have changed: > During World War I, European governments introduced border passport requirements for security reasons, and to control the emigration of people with useful skills. These controls remained in place after the war, becoming a standard, though controversial, procedure. British tourists of the 1920s complained, especially about attached photographs and physical descriptions, which they considered led to a "nasty dehumanisation".[19] The British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act was passed in 1914, clearly defining the notions of citizenship and creating a booklet form of the passport.
- StupidOne 4y ago
  In my country (Croatia), post WW2 schools in rural areas were one man band. You had professor / teacher and he was in charge about anything and everything in the school. Also, note that some (if not majority) of kids were malnourished, so an older child could look like "properly developed" much younger kid. Those schools existed for two reasons: a) to teach kids how to read and write and some very basic math b) find ones with potential and connect them with benefactor to sponsor theirs more advanced education
adamc 4y ago
My parents both started college in 1939 at the age of 16. Being promoted to grades beyond your age cohort was apparently not so uncommon then.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Yup, you read all sorts of stuff about kids graduating college at 18, etc. I'd imagine the further back you go, the higher the variance between best/worst education level in a given age cohort.. so school officials would just promote kids up a few grades if they were too smart.
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    I think there was also more variety in the structure of the school system. Eg maybe most people leave school at 14 and university starts at 16/17.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    When I entered college (this century) they had all the freshman in my orientation group sitting in a lecture hall and the lady doing the "how not to die partying and related stuff" lecture asked if anyone in the ~100 person lecture hall was under 16. One person raised their hand.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      I assume that was the "don't sleep with this person" warning. Way to feel welcomed to college.
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        Yup. The lady doing the lecture asked this person what month they were born before making it explicit. Mean for sure but between the 15yo in question being a woman in a college environment and this only happening in front of 1/10th of 1/4th of the undergraduate student body I doubt it was of any practical hindrance.
schiffern 4y ago
>My dad is 4 years younger than his age on paper What a coincidence, me too!! Going forward, this is now my official excuse...
kortilla 4y ago
What would happen if he committed a crime at the paper age of 19 and he was actually only 15? Would they retroactively update the birth record?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

steveBK123 4y ago

While not as extreme, many of the real-official birthdays straddle month end / month starts. In one case it kicked someones birthdate to a new calendar year and his pension kicks in a year later as a result. They always joke the donkey was slow and cost him an extra year of work.

jefftk 4y ago

The school couldn't tell from looking at him that he was closer to Kindergarten-aged (5) than 4th grade (9) !?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
darth_avocado 4y ago
The school didn’t care. They didn’t want him to repeat grades if he already knew everything. They were focussed on his development than arbitrary restrictions around age.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  OK, but physical development is important too. Middle school would be rough as a 9/10 year old. He was 14 graduating from high school?
  - ptero 4y ago
    The "elementary/middle/high school" distinction might have been virtual. My grandfather told me that most rural schools in his time, including the one he went to, had several grades in a single room. Occasionally a single room for all students. For "elementary" grades it would be primarily by function (can read? can write? can count?) rather than age. And it would not be uncommon to have a much older kid from a poor family sit with little kids at the "cannot read" table. In this setup jumping a grade could be as simple as sitting at the next table. Can read -- go there. Can count -- one more step. Physical development came from carrying water, herding cattle, bringing and splitting firewood, etc. outside of school.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      That's a more severe version of what my child had in elementary school. To keep classes the right size, they would have a few 1st grade classes and a few 2nd grade classes and one 1st/2nd shared classroom. Repeat for each of the following years. My child was always put in the younger half of the shared classroom. After 3rd grade the principal invited them join the regular 5th grade class and skip 4th grade altogether.
      - Consultant32452 4y ago
        This arrangement is by design in some teaching styles, like Montessori. Unfortunately the Montessori schools in my area aged out after Elementary, would've loved to keep my daughter in that kind of environment.
  - vkou 4y ago
    Middle school isn't a universal thing, a lot of places have just elementary (~1-7), and high (~8-12) school. And the grades mix/don't mix on their own volition at lunch and recess, anyways.
csomar 4y ago
There was less "authority" back then. If you showed up to a school in the 1930s, they'll put you in some class. There won't be any serious paper work, no questions about where you are coming from or if you were residing near the school. The authority was manifested by the teachers/school itself rather than the state. To give you a better perspective, if you were traveling back then, border control will be the only deciding body of whether you make it or not. Nowadays, you only show up at the border if the "State" has determined that you are admissible. Border control still has a say in the matter but that's power is getting smaller and smaller. It's a paradox, because while the bureaucracy has increased and ossified, there was a lack of accountability back then. If the teacher of that school decided that you are inadmissible, you are pretty much out of option. Finally, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia to show you how much things have changed: > During World War I, European governments introduced border passport requirements for security reasons, and to control the emigration of people with useful skills. These controls remained in place after the war, becoming a standard, though controversial, procedure. British tourists of the 1920s complained, especially about attached photographs and physical descriptions, which they considered led to a "nasty dehumanisation".[19] The British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act was passed in 1914, clearly defining the notions of citizenship and creating a booklet form of the passport.
StupidOne 4y ago
In my country (Croatia), post WW2 schools in rural areas were one man band. You had professor / teacher and he was in charge about anything and everything in the school. Also, note that some (if not majority) of kids were malnourished, so an older child could look like "properly developed" much younger kid. Those schools existed for two reasons: a) to teach kids how to read and write and some very basic math b) find ones with potential and connect them with benefactor to sponsor theirs more advanced education

adamc 4y ago

My parents both started college in 1939 at the age of 16. Being promoted to grades beyond your age cohort was apparently not so uncommon then.

steveBK123 4y ago
Yup, you read all sorts of stuff about kids graduating college at 18, etc. I'd imagine the further back you go, the higher the variance between best/worst education level in a given age cohort.. so school officials would just promote kids up a few grades if they were too smart.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  I think there was also more variety in the structure of the school system. Eg maybe most people leave school at 14 and university starts at 16/17.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  When I entered college (this century) they had all the freshman in my orientation group sitting in a lecture hall and the lady doing the "how not to die partying and related stuff" lecture asked if anyone in the ~100 person lecture hall was under 16. One person raised their hand.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    I assume that was the "don't sleep with this person" warning. Way to feel welcomed to college.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      Yup. The lady doing the lecture asked this person what month they were born before making it explicit. Mean for sure but between the 15yo in question being a woman in a college environment and this only happening in front of 1/10th of 1/4th of the undergraduate student body I doubt it was of any practical hindrance.

schiffern 4y ago

>My dad is 4 years younger than his age on paper What a coincidence, me too!! Going forward, this is now my official excuse...

kortilla 4y ago

What would happen if he committed a crime at the paper age of 19 and he was actually only 15? Would they retroactively update the birth record?