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(I work on llama-dl.) We’re fighting back against the DMCA requests on the basis that NN weights aren’t copyrightable. This thread has details: https://news.yc
by sillysaurusx 4y ago
(I work on llama-dl.)
We’re fighting back against the DMCA requests on the basis that NN weights aren’t copyrightable. This thread has details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393782
I don't think you have to worry about Facebook going after you. The worst that will happen is that they issue a DMCA, in which case your project gets knocked offline. I don’t think they’ll be going the RIAA route of suing individual hackers.
The DMCAs were also launched by a third party law firm, not Meta themselves, so there’s a bit of “left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing” in all of this.
I’ll keep everyone updated. For now, hack freely.
- meghan_rain 4y agokeep up god's work!
- knodi123 4y ago> god's work creating sentient life?
- oh_sigh 4y agoThat can't be his work, since he only picked up that hobby about 0.000625% of the universe's timespan ago.
- stcredzero 4y agoFor many humans, some "hobbies" involve "projects" which may involve seemingly infinite degrees of procrastination. (This certainly applies to me!)
- oh_sigh 4y agoYou're not wrong - but for perspective this is equivalent to a 90 year old picking up a hobby 5 hours ago.
- generalizations 4y agoGotta do something in your old age. Better than crossword puzzles, I'll bet.
- ithkuil 4y agoIs it though? It could be a child picking up a hobby after being old enough to appreciate the hobby. There is so much more time left in the universe before heat death, so the 90y metaphor doesn't really describe the current point in time
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- anonymousgpt1 4y agoLemme save whoever is donating the legal here the time: model weights are definitely copyrightable.
- capableweb 4y agoUsually, you don't know if something is "definitely" anything in the legal world unless it's been tested in court. You have any case you want to reference here? Or what makes you so certain?
- jackblemming 4y agoOk. What if I train it for one micro step?
- chii 4y ago> model weights are definitely copyrightable. on what legal theory or precedence makes this true? IMHO, the weights are akin to the list of telephone numbers in a directory - which is definitely not copyrightable; only the layouts and expressive portion of a phone directory is copyrightable. So to make the weights copyrightable, it needs to be argued that the 'layout' of the weight is a creative expression, rather than a 'fact'. But the weights are matrices , which is not expressive or creative. Someone else could derive this exact same set of weights from scratch via the same algorithmic procedure, and therefore, these weights cannot be a creative expression.
- hnfong 4y ago> MHO, the weights are akin to the list of telephone numbers in a directory - which is definitely not copyrightable I would contest the analogy, but even if we accept it, it's still not clear whether phone directories (or other compilation of factual data) are definitely not copyrightable. The position is clear in the US, but in the UK and presumably other jurisdictions, I wouldn't be so sure. You could claim we're just talking about US law here, but if you release something on github/huggingface without geo-restrictions, and your company does business in Europe, you might not only have to comply with US law... eg. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24866738 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24866738 , eg. https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=wHJBemWuPT4C&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=kelly+v+morris&source=bl&ots=1e_UQvAhXw&sig=9vv361mGjLrxI6oowCjwOJ1UCy0&hl=zh-TW&ei=NISOSq-nJ4fg7AOV3aDACg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=kelly%20v%20morris&f=false https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=wHJBemWuPT4C&pg=PA114&l...
- oh_sigh 4y agoIf they aren't copyrightable, couldn't they still be classes as a trade secret and still fall under IP law? Though I'm not sure if distributing the weights to people who sign a simple agreement to not redistribute would count as taking reasonable precautions in maintaining secrecy.
- ImprobableTruth 4y agoI'm curious, do you not think this might have adverse effects? Namely, if NN weights aren't copyrightable, limited releases like Meta has done might not be possible anymore so they might just cease completely with releases, ultimately leading access to large models to be more restricted.
- sillysaurusx 4y agoI think we already live in that era, unfortunately. Meta's model release is probably going to be the largest for some years. There's more detail about the upsides/downsides in this thread: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1641804013791215619 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1641804013791215619
- muyuu 4y agoi honestly do not know what is worse from the three realistic alternatives: 1- to have large corporations and people with privileged access to them have these models exclusively and have them collaborate as a clique 2- to have those models openly released to everybody, or de-facto released to everybody as they leak in short order 3- to have the people who think releasing models is a bad thing simply not release them and work alone in their proprietary solutions, as the smaller companies and hobbyists do collaborate i say let them have a go at number 3 and see how that works for them - shades of "Microsoft Network" vs Internet all over again
- kybernetikos 4y agoIf NN weights aren't protected by IP law that could slow down progress quite a lot. That could be very good for people worried about alignment.
- logicchains 4y ago>If NN weights aren't protected by IP law that could slow down progress quite a lot. What do you mean? IP law is overwhelmingly an impediment to progress; innovation happens faster when people are free to build on existing weights.
- kybernetikos 4y agoYes, but there's less incentive for large companies to spend huge amounts of money training these systems when other companies can just take their work for free. Removing IP protection would make it a lot easier to innovate at this level, but it would reduce the amount of money flowing into getting us to the next level.
- pmoriarty 4y agoOr development could shift out of the hands of these large corporations, which might be a good thing. Somehow, though, I doubt they'll let the golden goose slip through their fingers, no matter what happens.
- wkat4242 4y agoNot really. This model only made it to the public because meta was offering it publicly. This won't happen to GPT any time soon so they are safe, copyright or not.