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> America, meanwhile, has decent native birth rate No, it doesn't. It's about 1.8 and dropping, and most of the higher values in that group are from recent imm

by oblio 4y ago

> America, meanwhile, has decent native birth rate No, it doesn't. It's about 1.8 and dropping, and most of the higher values in that group are from recent immigrants, which are also having fewer kids. Educated folks also have lower fertility rates. The US is basically a mirror of Western Europe in this regard: https://www.statista.com/statistics/226292/us-fertility-rates-by-race-and-ethnicity/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/226292/us-fertility-rate... > AND a culture that's always willing to accommodate new people. I'd argue that the biggest factors by far these days are: 1. English (very accessible due to music, movies, TV shows, etc). 2. Lots and lots of natural resources facilitating lots of businesses which aren't really feasible in say, Germany, France, Japan. 3. Large population bringing economies of scaling facilitating advanced businesses paying high salaries. Otherwise someone who travels around the US and Western Europe, for example, will be quite surprised at the cultural convergence and immigration levels. Most of your comment is a perception from 2-3 decades back, at least.

graeme 4y ago
>No, it doesn't. It's about 1.8 and dropping The OECD average is 1.67. America has a relative advantage Here's a dataset of various countries' fertility rates: https://splash-db.eu/dataset/population-indicators/ https://splash-db.eu/dataset/population-indicators/
- flerovium 4y ago
  Yes, but much of the difference in the average is due to recent immigrants.
  - TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
    That's literally the point he made above... America has always been a nation of immigrants. This is a good thing, not something to be singled out and act like it's a negative.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Even at 1.8, it's higher than the rest of the developed world. And America always has the option of simply opening the gates a little and fill up the gap with practically any immigrant group it wants.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Xenophobia and racism prevents that
  - alchemist1e9 4y ago
    > Xenophobia and racism prevents that Huh? My understanding is the US scores lowest of any country on objective measures of both. Which country has less Xenophobia and racism? People throw out Canada often but I believe empirically that is false.
    - zarzavat 4y ago
      How is xenophobia measured empirically?
      - DamnYuppie 4y ago
        Probably by the ethnic distribution of the immigrants. Most of US immigrant are not white so I don’t understand your argument. Maybe only Canada has more diverse immigrants than the US.
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        Are you really defining diversity by skin color
        zarzavat 4y ago
        What is the relationship between xenophobia and the diversity of immigrants? Counter-example: Certain Arab gulf states, extremely large and diverse immigrant populations from all of Eurasia. Yet still super xenophobic to anyone who isn’t an Arab.
pertymcpert 4y ago
In the modern world, 1.8 is very solid. Easily can make up for that with immigration.
- bombcar 4y ago
  At some point you run out of places for people to immigrate from unless you just empty entire countries.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    That's not something to worry about until the global population stops (rapidly) growing.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Until the US ceases to be a desirable destination for many immigrants, which could take quite a while.
pradn 4y ago
> Lots and lots of natural resources facilitating lots of businesses which aren't really feasible in say, Germany, France, Japan. This doesn't seem to be a big factor in the boom industries in the US: tech, finance, pharma. It does matter for construction, the biggest employer. The US still seems like a more welcoming place than western Europe. Or at least you can take comfort in a suburban home and drive to people/institutions that are from your immigrant group. We have an immigrant ethos that exceeds that of the UK, France, and Germany. Plus, our large number of decent universities means the masters/F1->OPT->H1B pipeline works well for many educated workers.
- oblio 4y ago
  https://companiesmarketcap.com/largest-companies-by-revenue/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/largest-companies-by-revenue/ Exxon, Chevron, Marathon, Valero, Philips 66. 5 American oil and gas companies in the worldwide top 100 by revenue. A bunch of pharma & co, also dependent on cheap oil and gas.
- oblio 4y ago
  > We have an immigrant ethos that exceeds that of the UK, France, and Germany. Again with the outdated mindset. Those countries have as many immigrants or more, per capita, as the US. > Plus, our large number of decent universities means the masters/F1->OPT->H1B pipeline works well for many educated workers. Those work well for drawing people in, but how well do they serve second generation immigrants or minorities? Universities in Europe are cheap or free, that's a whole lot more egalitarian. The US speaks English, is big and has a TON of money. The US basically brute forces everything, which I guess works.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > The US still seems like a more welcoming place than western Europe. I personally know peolle that left US for UK because they found your immigration system unacceptable. If you are from india, you might have to wait 10 years to get citizenship after fulfilling all requirements. Uk immigration system itself is worse than that of France and many other countries. It costs $10,000 to apply for visas for a family of 4. Thats just the money you pay to the government, assuming you never need a solicitor to help with the paperwork.

by oblio 4y ago

graeme 4y ago

>No, it doesn't. It's about 1.8 and dropping The OECD average is 1.67. America has a relative advantage Here's a dataset of various countries' fertility rates: https://splash-db.eu/dataset/population-indicators/ https://splash-db.eu/dataset/population-indicators/

flerovium 4y ago
Yes, but much of the difference in the average is due to recent immigrants.
- TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
  That's literally the point he made above... America has always been a nation of immigrants. This is a good thing, not something to be singled out and act like it's a negative.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Even at 1.8, it's higher than the rest of the developed world. And America always has the option of simply opening the gates a little and fill up the gap with practically any immigrant group it wants.

kevviiinn 4y ago
Xenophobia and racism prevents that
- alchemist1e9 4y ago
  > Xenophobia and racism prevents that Huh? My understanding is the US scores lowest of any country on objective measures of both. Which country has less Xenophobia and racism? People throw out Canada often but I believe empirically that is false.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    How is xenophobia measured empirically?
    - DamnYuppie 4y ago
      Probably by the ethnic distribution of the immigrants. Most of US immigrant are not white so I don’t understand your argument. Maybe only Canada has more diverse immigrants than the US.
      - kevviiinn 4y ago
        Are you really defining diversity by skin color
      - zarzavat 4y ago
        What is the relationship between xenophobia and the diversity of immigrants? Counter-example: Certain Arab gulf states, extremely large and diverse immigrant populations from all of Eurasia. Yet still super xenophobic to anyone who isn’t an Arab.

pertymcpert 4y ago

In the modern world, 1.8 is very solid. Easily can make up for that with immigration.

bombcar 4y ago
At some point you run out of places for people to immigrate from unless you just empty entire countries.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  That's not something to worry about until the global population stops (rapidly) growing.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Until the US ceases to be a desirable destination for many immigrants, which could take quite a while.

pradn 4y ago

> Lots and lots of natural resources facilitating lots of businesses which aren't really feasible in say, Germany, France, Japan. This doesn't seem to be a big factor in the boom industries in the US: tech, finance, pharma. It does matter for construction, the biggest employer. The US still seems like a more welcoming place than western Europe. Or at least you can take comfort in a suburban home and drive to people/institutions that are from your immigrant group. We have an immigrant ethos that exceeds that of the UK, France, and Germany. Plus, our large number of decent universities means the masters/F1->OPT->H1B pipeline works well for many educated workers.

oblio 4y ago
https://companiesmarketcap.com/largest-companies-by-revenue/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/largest-companies-by-revenue/ Exxon, Chevron, Marathon, Valero, Philips 66. 5 American oil and gas companies in the worldwide top 100 by revenue. A bunch of pharma & co, also dependent on cheap oil and gas.
oblio 4y ago
> We have an immigrant ethos that exceeds that of the UK, France, and Germany. Again with the outdated mindset. Those countries have as many immigrants or more, per capita, as the US. > Plus, our large number of decent universities means the masters/F1->OPT->H1B pipeline works well for many educated workers. Those work well for drawing people in, but how well do they serve second generation immigrants or minorities? Universities in Europe are cheap or free, that's a whole lot more egalitarian. The US speaks English, is big and has a TON of money. The US basically brute forces everything, which I guess works.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> The US still seems like a more welcoming place than western Europe. I personally know peolle that left US for UK because they found your immigration system unacceptable. If you are from india, you might have to wait 10 years to get citizenship after fulfilling all requirements. Uk immigration system itself is worse than that of France and many other countries. It costs $10,000 to apply for visas for a family of 4. Thats just the money you pay to the government, assuming you never need a solicitor to help with the paperwork.