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What’s going to happen: Trucking companies are simply going to leave CA. They will deliver goods to the border. Then some enterprising company with electric tru

What’s going to happen: Trucking companies are simply going to leave CA. They will deliver goods to the border. Then some enterprising company with electric trucks will pick those up at the border and deliver into CA. Congratulations, you’ve now significantly increased the cost of all the goods going into California. You’ve only moderately reduced the climate burden and likely increased the amount of traffic via container ships that pollute significantly more.

Glawen 4y ago
It might increase train transport though. But there will be less ships mooring at Californian ports as it will become uncompetitive
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Look into how California ports already transfer containers from ports. https://www.portoflosangeles.org/business/supply-chain/rail https://www.portoflosangeles.org/business/supply-chain/rail
  - martinky24 4y ago
    So you're saying they don't use trucks? Kind of delusional tbh
- gonzo 4y ago
  Trains burn diesel.
consumer451 4y ago
Historically, it seems that rules in large markets end up setting the bar for the market at large. Plus in this case the Port of Long Beach exists. Also, what is the alternative? Just keep burning the oil until it's gone?
- lazide 4y ago
  We can (and likely will) keep burning oil for a very long time. It likely will never be actually gone - it would be uneconomic (and the planet a scorching hothouse unable to support humans) long before oil is unable to be extracted.
vm 4y ago
That premise seems unlikely based on two facts from the article: 1. “to require truck manufacturers to sell an increasing number of zero-emission trucks over the next couple of decades” This is a multi-decade effort for manufacturers, not freight companies 2. “eight other states plan to adopt California’s truck standards” It’s a catalyst for other states to adopt this same standard. California is using its market power to influence national emission standards.
- hd95489 4y ago
  My state has been infected by California copy cat syndrome and it’s destroying our cities. Every shitty California policy gets adopted here a couple years later and now we can’t build anything, Pay more taxes and have more crime. The supposed benefits never come through.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Look up California clean air regulations, and how they have radiated around the world and made every single city cleaner and healthier. That's bad? You want to go back to breathing lead and other heavy metals and carcinogens in your exhaust?
    - asguy 4y ago
      The problem is, like any good government agency, they don’t stop when they’ve succeeded fixing their original problem. What started with catalytic converters and OBD-2 is now preventing me from buying sub-freezing temperature windshield wiper fluid, and my BBQ lighter fluid is so watered down I have to use 2x to get it to do anything useful.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        Yeah, because those things are toxic and poisoning you, your children, and our environment. Now that those have been banned, companies will work to meet the market demand that you are noting, they will develop alternatives that are good, but also not poisoning us, and sell that. It will only be a minor inconvenience for you. This is the exact same thing that happened with whale oil, leaded gas, leaded glass, sulfur diesel, ddt, on and on. In each of those cases people were complaining like you, in each of those cases life went on and we figured out how to cope with the new, safer, less toxic, reality. Edited to correct 2 spelling errors
lazide 4y ago
Near as I can tell, there is really only a tiny handful of places in California where the geography permits this - all near the interstates. Building boom for giant warehouses/transfer stations?
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Logistics companies will have to weigh the economics of building and operating warehouse transfer stations or operating an interstate electric fleet. If operating an electric fleet is more cost-effective the. they'll do it or risk being outcompeted by those that do.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
martinky24 4y ago
This is incredibly naive, considering a few of the biggest ports on the continent are in California.
dehrmann 4y ago
I'd expect it to look like gas prices. CA has some of the most expensive gas in the country. Part is due to taxes, part is due to extra refining requirements.
- m463 4y ago
  I think there's another force at play here - the price increase is flexible because people expect to pay more for "special" gas. Sentiment affects pricing and whenever some disaster or other event happens, the market is pretty efficient at capitalizing on it. This goes for all kinds of things like ukraine and natural gas, chickens and eggs, EVs and electricity pricing, etc...
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    All those examples are all supply shocks. CA gas prices have been high for a long time, and I doubt most people see CA gas as "special," so surely another refiner would have stepped in by now.
lern_too_spel 4y ago
The problem with diesel isn't climate. Diesel has lower carbon emissions than gasoline. The problem with diesel is toxic emissions. California is willing to pay more in shipping costs to pay less in healthcare costs.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The problem with diesel isn't climate. Yes, it is. > Diesel has lower carbon emissions than gasoline. It is not being phased out in trucks in favor of gasoline trucks, so, even if true, that would be irrelevant. But it’s also not true, diesel releases more CO2 for the same energy than gasoline does. [0] [0] https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    > But it’s also not true, diesel releases more CO2 for the same energy than gasoline does. [0] That article makes the assumption that the ethanol component of finished motor gasoline has net zero carbon emissions. https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241 https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-reall... "So, while diesel fuel contains slightly more carbon (2.68kg CO₂/litre) than petrol (2.31kg CO₂/litre), overall CO₂ emissions of a diesel car tend to be lower. In use, on average, this equates to around 200g CO₂/km for petrol and 120g CO₂/km for diesel."

Glawen 4y ago

It might increase train transport though. But there will be less ships mooring at Californian ports as it will become uncompetitive

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Look into how California ports already transfer containers from ports. https://www.portoflosangeles.org/business/supply-chain/rail https://www.portoflosangeles.org/business/supply-chain/rail
- martinky24 4y ago
  So you're saying they don't use trucks? Kind of delusional tbh
gonzo 4y ago
Trains burn diesel.

consumer451 4y ago

Historically, it seems that rules in large markets end up setting the bar for the market at large. Plus in this case the Port of Long Beach exists. Also, what is the alternative? Just keep burning the oil until it's gone?

lazide 4y ago
We can (and likely will) keep burning oil for a very long time. It likely will never be actually gone - it would be uneconomic (and the planet a scorching hothouse unable to support humans) long before oil is unable to be extracted.

vm 4y ago

That premise seems unlikely based on two facts from the article: 1. “to require truck manufacturers to sell an increasing number of zero-emission trucks over the next couple of decades” This is a multi-decade effort for manufacturers, not freight companies 2. “eight other states plan to adopt California’s truck standards” It’s a catalyst for other states to adopt this same standard. California is using its market power to influence national emission standards.

hd95489 4y ago
My state has been infected by California copy cat syndrome and it’s destroying our cities. Every shitty California policy gets adopted here a couple years later and now we can’t build anything, Pay more taxes and have more crime. The supposed benefits never come through.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Look up California clean air regulations, and how they have radiated around the world and made every single city cleaner and healthier. That's bad? You want to go back to breathing lead and other heavy metals and carcinogens in your exhaust?
  - asguy 4y ago
    The problem is, like any good government agency, they don’t stop when they’ve succeeded fixing their original problem. What started with catalytic converters and OBD-2 is now preventing me from buying sub-freezing temperature windshield wiper fluid, and my BBQ lighter fluid is so watered down I have to use 2x to get it to do anything useful.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Yeah, because those things are toxic and poisoning you, your children, and our environment. Now that those have been banned, companies will work to meet the market demand that you are noting, they will develop alternatives that are good, but also not poisoning us, and sell that. It will only be a minor inconvenience for you. This is the exact same thing that happened with whale oil, leaded gas, leaded glass, sulfur diesel, ddt, on and on. In each of those cases people were complaining like you, in each of those cases life went on and we figured out how to cope with the new, safer, less toxic, reality. Edited to correct 2 spelling errors

lazide 4y ago

Near as I can tell, there is really only a tiny handful of places in California where the geography permits this - all near the interstates. Building boom for giant warehouses/transfer stations?

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Logistics companies will have to weigh the economics of building and operating warehouse transfer stations or operating an interstate electric fleet. If operating an electric fleet is more cost-effective the. they'll do it or risk being outcompeted by those that do.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

martinky24 4y ago

This is incredibly naive, considering a few of the biggest ports on the continent are in California.

dehrmann 4y ago

I'd expect it to look like gas prices. CA has some of the most expensive gas in the country. Part is due to taxes, part is due to extra refining requirements.

m463 4y ago
I think there's another force at play here - the price increase is flexible because people expect to pay more for "special" gas. Sentiment affects pricing and whenever some disaster or other event happens, the market is pretty efficient at capitalizing on it. This goes for all kinds of things like ukraine and natural gas, chickens and eggs, EVs and electricity pricing, etc...
- dehrmann 4y ago
  All those examples are all supply shocks. CA gas prices have been high for a long time, and I doubt most people see CA gas as "special," so surely another refiner would have stepped in by now.

lern_too_spel 4y ago

The problem with diesel isn't climate. Diesel has lower carbon emissions than gasoline. The problem with diesel is toxic emissions. California is willing to pay more in shipping costs to pay less in healthcare costs.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> The problem with diesel isn't climate. Yes, it is. > Diesel has lower carbon emissions than gasoline. It is not being phased out in trucks in favor of gasoline trucks, so, even if true, that would be irrelevant. But it’s also not true, diesel releases more CO2 for the same energy than gasoline does. [0] [0] https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > But it’s also not true, diesel releases more CO2 for the same energy than gasoline does. [0] That article makes the assumption that the ethanol component of finished motor gasoline has net zero carbon emissions. https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241 https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-reall... "So, while diesel fuel contains slightly more carbon (2.68kg CO₂/litre) than petrol (2.31kg CO₂/litre), overall CO₂ emissions of a diesel car tend to be lower. In use, on average, this equates to around 200g CO₂/km for petrol and 120g CO₂/km for diesel."