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Hard to see the difference between that or someone so obsessed with twitter that he paid a huge premium to own it.

nailer 4y ago
Someone wants to measure their business after paying what was a reasonable figure when they offered it, but that became overpriced once the market changed. Sounds like fairly rational behaviour. HN isn’t a site for making unfounded personal attacks on others.
- jdub 4y ago
  It is very difficult to describe anything Elon has done to Twitter since (and including) buying it as "rational".
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    As a person who occasionally uses Twitter, but has no interest in having an account, he has dramatically improved the experience. Before he took over it was made impossible to view replies from a user, users were spammed with popup login dialogues that could not be closed with a single click, and more. I expect Twitter probably drove more people away from the site with all this nonsense, than they coerced into registering. I also think many of the changes to make Twitter more open, such as now open sourcing the recommendation algorithm, publishing view counts (which indirectly makes it clear when something or somebody has been shadow banned), and more are all big steps forward in creating a much better and open service for all. Really most of every change he's pursued since taking over Twitter, from my perspective at least, seems to have been big steps forward. What would you say has been irrational?
    - random314 4y ago
      > What would you say has been irrational? Really? You can't even think of one single thing?
      - s__s 4y ago
        It sounds like you can’t either. Do you have an example to share?
        random314 4y ago
        Damn, you got me!
        TeMPOraL 4y ago
        If everyone in the anti-Musk crowd was this honest, we'd have much less drama on the Internet in the past half year.
        random314 4y ago
        Not everyone can be as honest, brilliant, insightful and just as you dear Sir.
        ActorNightly 4y ago
        He accused Twitter of being politically biased to the left and suppressing tweets, so he bought it to "allow free speech", except in his mind free speech apparently equates to being able to promote right wing propaganda. As a platform, sure it can be better, and it wasn't exactly under the best management before (although the Twitter file leak actually made the old management look better than everyone thought). But lets not pretend that Musk is in this for the platform - he wants control of information to boost Republican leaders because in his mind, he is the savior of human race, so the best leadership is that which allows him to do the things he wants to do.
        nailer 4y ago
        Twitter was politically biased to the left. Yes right wing ideas can be there now. Yes that’s part of free speech.
        4y ago
- threeseed 4y ago
  a) Musk is a public figure therefore personal attacks are legal and normal. b) Nothing I have said is untrue. c) This is not a normal way of measuring the health of a business. Standard metrics include EBITDA, DAU, MAU, LTV, CAC etc. d) This is not normal behaviour from a CEO. You don't see Mark Zuckerberg, Shou Zi Chew, Evan Spiegel etc using their products the same way Elon does.
  - jrsj 4y ago
    If the “normal way” of doing things worked then Twitter wouldn’t have been in such a bad state when he took over in the first place. An unconventional approach brings more risk but can also end up being worth it. Would I do things differently if it were up to me? Sure, but it isn’t, and I can at least appreciate that they are trying to move quickly & try different things. I’m reserving my judgement for whether or not this approach works in the long run.
    - tomberin 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - matwood 4y ago
      Twitter wasn't in that bad of state. If anything, it just needed tweaking to unlock the value it should have had given it's place in the media. Now, Twitter is in a terrible state financially given the debt Musk loaded onto it for the purchase. The problem is Musk is learning the hard way when taking something over is that the old crew is never as dumb as he hoped they were, and he wasn't as smart as he thought he was.
      - jrsj 4y ago
        A company that is 16 years old, still not profitable, & with no concrete plans to achieve profitability is totally dysfunctional and probably wouldn’t survive a high interest rate + likely recessionary environment anyways.
    - tlholaday 4y ago
- freehorse 4y ago
  That is "measuring their business" only if one of the main goals for their business is for it to promote them; because this is exactly what they measure here.
  - nailer 4y ago
    It’s the CEO being able to write something and see where it ends up after going through the pipeline. It does not increase views. I can repeat this, other can repeat this, or you can look at the code.
- shanebellone 4y ago
  He measured the business into halves; then lost one of those halves.
- status200 4y ago
  His offer included a meme number and was overvalued even in April '22 (by 54% !), claimed he was going to combat the spam bots, and then tried to back out, citing the same spam bots. The event was described as a "hostile takeover" at the time [0], a term which has stuck all the way through to most summaries of the event [1] [0] https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/elon-musk-offering-to-buy-twitter-1235232598/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/elon-musk-offering-to-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Twitter_by_Elon_Musk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Twitter_by_Elon...
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    A hostile takeover has a specific meaning. It's simply a takeover attempt where a buyer approaches shareholders instead of the company's management, this is usually (if not always) because the latter fails. And it always comes with a premium and drama, precisely because it goes against the wishes of the management of a company. And the premium is also logical because presumably shareholders of a company "believe" in that company, and an outsider now wants to take it over. A good example [1] is when Inbev (massive multinational beer company) purchased Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser). It made the purchase of Twitter look downright cordial, but was probably outside of most of our bubbles. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anheuser-Busch#Acquisition_by_InBev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anheuser-Busch#Acquisition_by_...
  - nailer 4y ago
    Yea, to make people buy your company you need to offer a premium. He backed out saying he was lied to about the current level of fake accounts, which is also reasonable if that was the case.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      > which is also reasonable if that was the case. It would have been reasonable if he had performed due diligence and came to that conclusion, but he explicitly chose to waive due diligence, and then tried to renege anyway.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  I absolutely will criticize Elon for his behavior around the twitter buyout. He's handled layoff/firing decisions extremely poorly. He's alienated a large portion of the ad buyers. These are not unfounded attacks. Elon does not need you going around personally trying to shut down other people's discussion. That's cult like behavior.
  - nailer 4y ago
    It was going to be tough to cut Twitter regardless of who did it. Advertisers were pulling out before the deal was even closed, mainly because of Tiktok. How are the people that disagree with you in this thread trying to shut down your discussion?
api 4y ago
The alcoholic bought his favorite bar.
- scubbo 4y ago
  I've enjoyed Matt Levine's metaphor in Money Stuff - an MMO-addict bought the maker of his favourite game.
nailer 4y ago
Or he saw something was wrong (which has now been publicly revealed to be true) and had the money to fix it

Someone wants to measure their business after paying what was a reasonable figure when they offered it, but that became overpriced once the market changed. Sounds like fairly rational behaviour. HN isn’t a site for making unfounded personal attacks on others.

jdub 4y ago
It is very difficult to describe anything Elon has done to Twitter since (and including) buying it as "rational".
- somenameforme 4y ago
  As a person who occasionally uses Twitter, but has no interest in having an account, he has dramatically improved the experience. Before he took over it was made impossible to view replies from a user, users were spammed with popup login dialogues that could not be closed with a single click, and more. I expect Twitter probably drove more people away from the site with all this nonsense, than they coerced into registering. I also think many of the changes to make Twitter more open, such as now open sourcing the recommendation algorithm, publishing view counts (which indirectly makes it clear when something or somebody has been shadow banned), and more are all big steps forward in creating a much better and open service for all. Really most of every change he's pursued since taking over Twitter, from my perspective at least, seems to have been big steps forward. What would you say has been irrational?
  - random314 4y ago
    > What would you say has been irrational? Really? You can't even think of one single thing?
    - s__s 4y ago
      It sounds like you can’t either. Do you have an example to share?
      - random314 4y ago
        Damn, you got me!
        TeMPOraL 4y ago
        If everyone in the anti-Musk crowd was this honest, we'd have much less drama on the Internet in the past half year.
        random314 4y ago
        Not everyone can be as honest, brilliant, insightful and just as you dear Sir.
      - ActorNightly 4y ago
        He accused Twitter of being politically biased to the left and suppressing tweets, so he bought it to "allow free speech", except in his mind free speech apparently equates to being able to promote right wing propaganda. As a platform, sure it can be better, and it wasn't exactly under the best management before (although the Twitter file leak actually made the old management look better than everyone thought). But lets not pretend that Musk is in this for the platform - he wants control of information to boost Republican leaders because in his mind, he is the savior of human race, so the best leadership is that which allows him to do the things he wants to do.
        nailer 4y ago
        Twitter was politically biased to the left. Yes right wing ideas can be there now. Yes that’s part of free speech.
        4y ago
threeseed 4y ago
a) Musk is a public figure therefore personal attacks are legal and normal. b) Nothing I have said is untrue. c) This is not a normal way of measuring the health of a business. Standard metrics include EBITDA, DAU, MAU, LTV, CAC etc. d) This is not normal behaviour from a CEO. You don't see Mark Zuckerberg, Shou Zi Chew, Evan Spiegel etc using their products the same way Elon does.
- jrsj 4y ago
  If the “normal way” of doing things worked then Twitter wouldn’t have been in such a bad state when he took over in the first place. An unconventional approach brings more risk but can also end up being worth it. Would I do things differently if it were up to me? Sure, but it isn’t, and I can at least appreciate that they are trying to move quickly & try different things. I’m reserving my judgement for whether or not this approach works in the long run.
  - tomberin 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - matwood 4y ago
    Twitter wasn't in that bad of state. If anything, it just needed tweaking to unlock the value it should have had given it's place in the media. Now, Twitter is in a terrible state financially given the debt Musk loaded onto it for the purchase. The problem is Musk is learning the hard way when taking something over is that the old crew is never as dumb as he hoped they were, and he wasn't as smart as he thought he was.
    - jrsj 4y ago
      A company that is 16 years old, still not profitable, & with no concrete plans to achieve profitability is totally dysfunctional and probably wouldn’t survive a high interest rate + likely recessionary environment anyways.
  - tlholaday 4y ago
freehorse 4y ago
That is "measuring their business" only if one of the main goals for their business is for it to promote them; because this is exactly what they measure here.
- nailer 4y ago
  It’s the CEO being able to write something and see where it ends up after going through the pipeline. It does not increase views. I can repeat this, other can repeat this, or you can look at the code.
shanebellone 4y ago
He measured the business into halves; then lost one of those halves.
status200 4y ago
His offer included a meme number and was overvalued even in April '22 (by 54% !), claimed he was going to combat the spam bots, and then tried to back out, citing the same spam bots. The event was described as a "hostile takeover" at the time [0], a term which has stuck all the way through to most summaries of the event [1] [0] https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/elon-musk-offering-to-buy-twitter-1235232598/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/elon-musk-offering-to-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Twitter_by_Elon_Musk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Twitter_by_Elon...
- somenameforme 4y ago
  A hostile takeover has a specific meaning. It's simply a takeover attempt where a buyer approaches shareholders instead of the company's management, this is usually (if not always) because the latter fails. And it always comes with a premium and drama, precisely because it goes against the wishes of the management of a company. And the premium is also logical because presumably shareholders of a company "believe" in that company, and an outsider now wants to take it over. A good example [1] is when Inbev (massive multinational beer company) purchased Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser). It made the purchase of Twitter look downright cordial, but was probably outside of most of our bubbles. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anheuser-Busch#Acquisition_by_InBev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anheuser-Busch#Acquisition_by_...
- nailer 4y ago
  Yea, to make people buy your company you need to offer a premium. He backed out saying he was lied to about the current level of fake accounts, which is also reasonable if that was the case.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    > which is also reasonable if that was the case. It would have been reasonable if he had performed due diligence and came to that conclusion, but he explicitly chose to waive due diligence, and then tried to renege anyway.
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
I absolutely will criticize Elon for his behavior around the twitter buyout. He's handled layoff/firing decisions extremely poorly. He's alienated a large portion of the ad buyers. These are not unfounded attacks. Elon does not need you going around personally trying to shut down other people's discussion. That's cult like behavior.
- nailer 4y ago
  It was going to be tough to cut Twitter regardless of who did it. Advertisers were pulling out before the deal was even closed, mainly because of Tiktok. How are the people that disagree with you in this thread trying to shut down your discussion?

api 4y ago

The alcoholic bought his favorite bar.

scubbo 4y ago
I've enjoyed Matt Levine's metaphor in Money Stuff - an MMO-addict bought the maker of his favourite game.

nailer 4y ago

Or he saw something was wrong (which has now been publicly revealed to be true) and had the money to fix it