6 ms·

> Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it. My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained t

> Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it. My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. Sometimes, all people need to know is 'no' and most of the time they don't even need an explanation.

closewith 4y ago
In large swathes of the world, refusing to use WhatsApp means losing contact with the majority of people you know. It's the de facto communications method in many countries.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  I live in a country where WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I uninstalled it 2 years ago and told my contacts that they can find me on Telegram if they'd like to contact me. Most of my friends and family switched to Telegram, and I'm really grateful for that. I don't miss any updates, and I'm able to communicate on a platform I like. In the beginning, they found it odd, but eventually started to like it and some now even prefer it.
  - closewith 4y ago
    My honest reply is that you don't know the conversations you were excluded from because of this decision.
    - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
      And to be honest, I realize that, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Maybe some won't be, but the path of idealism isn't always the most convenient.
      - danielheath 4y ago
        Taking the consequences works fine if you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. "Sorry kids, you aren't going to your friends parties or playing sports with them because my ideals conflict with your reality" is not a tenable position.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Not to worry your kids friends will share that they have a party. If you forbid your daughter from dating a guy they will find there way around that somehow.
        mlatu 4y ago
        you forgot something... here, just add: "your mileage may vary" and bob's your aunty
        NayamAmarshe 4y ago
        > Taking the consequences works fine if you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. Yeah, definitely. I'm just responsible for myself. The day I have to be responsible for others, I'll just immigrate to a country where everybody uses Telegram haha.
      - rndmio 4y ago
        Tbh I'm kind of amused that you rail against WhatsApp and then went and installed Telegram rather than Signal.
        NayamAmarshe 4y ago
        I have done my research well and I still support Telegram. I don't think Signal has what is needed to rival WhatsApp. Telegram is a much better option that does not sell your user data and still has the best privacy options. Where most people like to disagree is the security part, but E2EE is not as important to me as long as my privacy is respected.
        4y ago
    - adesanmi 4y ago
      This is a blessing, not a curse.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      This is just rationalizing FOMO. Of course you don't know the things you don't know.
      - 411111111111111 4y ago
        Except you actually are getting excluded in a lot of conversations after uninstalling, thus it's not just a fear... So it's not FOMO, it's just plain MO.
      - closewith 4y ago
        Yes, I continue to use WhatsApp because I have fear of missing out. Missing out on conversations from my extended family, friends (only about 1/4 use Signal and all groups are on WhatsApp), work (the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp), voluntary undertakings (all of which are organised on WhatsApp), organising stuff for the kids (again all on WhatsApp). So it's a valid fear based on the reality in my social circle and country. Unilaterally moving to Signal means self-imposed isolation.
        jen20 4y ago
        > the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp This part is terrifying: does Ireland not have the equivalent of HSR (UK, in combination with a patchwork of other legislation) or HIPAA?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        erehweb 4y ago
        Interested in a bit more context re Ireland Health Service - how does this work with older people / those in remote areas?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        4y ago
    - mvuksano 4y ago
      And that's a good thing maybe.
    - 1659447091 4y ago
      I look at this as being more of a hidden blessing. The people I had been actual friends with, not just acquaintances, had no problems adding Signal. It was mostly for expat friends since in my part of the US we just SMS/iMessage, and we have group messages on Signal for the couple of mixed-location mutual friends. They still use WhatsApp for their other contacts but turns out this filtered for the people that cared enough if I were in their life or not. Even after making the effort to keep up with the ones that only wanted to use WhatsApps, through email or regular text message, they couldn't be bothered. I guess I have moved into the point in my life where I prefer the quality of friends who wanted me around for more than being an extra body to fill out their party guest list (and similar).
- bsenftner 4y ago
  This is so wrong, it demonstrates how our human society is fundamentally broken, if not operated and manipulated.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  A tale about choices and consequences.
- belter 4y ago
  And I confess to have done that, to achieve exactly those expected consequences... :-)
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Lucky here, Whatsapp isn't the goto
luluganeta 4y ago
that's a nice company, but parent comment had a really important point about depending on Whatsapp for basic social interaction. most informal social groups, parents included, now communicate mainly on whatsapp. You can naturally say no (i did) but then your kid is left out of most social events unless you're actively syncing with other parents every week to be in the loop (which is what i do and it's excruciating). Whatsapp as a platform is extremely convenient, which is why other people will have a hard time understanding your reluctance to adhere, it's not uncommon to be seen as eccentric. so again, congratulations on finding a great company, but there are real issues with the general social dependence on a single invasive platform.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  Yeah, I totally understand your point. I had to be the stubborn one to leave WhatsApp and refuse any communication unless they contact me on Telegram. Some didn't like it at first, but thankfully most of them now love Telegram. I have a “My way or the highway” kinda attitude when it comes to WhatsApp, it has certainly caused problems once or twice, but I'm very firm on my stance against Facebook apps.
  - duud 4y ago
    How is Telegram more privacy preserving than WhatsApp?
    - tcfhgj 4y ago
      It isn't. It creates massive barriers for using e2ee
      - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
        I get where you're coming from but Telegram is objectively better than WhatsApp due to several reasons: - Privacy controls for each user. - No hard requirement for a phone number. - Cloud encryption. - Open Source clients. - Telegram's track record. - Business model not revolving around selling user data. WhatsApp is a black box and nobody has any good arguments for it other than 'supposed' E2EE that nobody knows anything about. The fact that WhatsApp's T&C forbid you from even reverse engineering the obfuscated binaries and Facebook being the force behind WhatsApp, I'm still surprised that people take their E2EE claim seriously. It's like me promising you that I'm not looking at you, while I stand facing you, right behind you.
bilekas 4y ago
Ignoring the red flag the company would require whatsapp, I can easily see a company not forcing you to use it and being okay. But as op mentioned > kids' sports activities and parent groups Try telling your kids football team coach that you object to Whatsapp and your kids friends' parents that you will not join Facebook for privacy reasons, it's a much harder ask, they might say fine, but you can't expect other people to change their behavior based on your beliefs. No matter how right you are.
- malka 4y ago
  Then, lie. "I can't because my Facebook got hacked, and I got banned from Facebook. I tried multiple time to recreate an account but it was banned each time :('
mbesto 4y ago
> My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. IANAL but if this is on your personal device they can't compel you to do so. Otherwise they need to provide a company issued device.

closewith 4y ago

In large swathes of the world, refusing to use WhatsApp means losing contact with the majority of people you know. It's the de facto communications method in many countries.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago
I live in a country where WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I uninstalled it 2 years ago and told my contacts that they can find me on Telegram if they'd like to contact me. Most of my friends and family switched to Telegram, and I'm really grateful for that. I don't miss any updates, and I'm able to communicate on a platform I like. In the beginning, they found it odd, but eventually started to like it and some now even prefer it.
- closewith 4y ago
  My honest reply is that you don't know the conversations you were excluded from because of this decision.
  - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
    And to be honest, I realize that, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Maybe some won't be, but the path of idealism isn't always the most convenient.
    - danielheath 4y ago
      Taking the consequences works fine if you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. "Sorry kids, you aren't going to your friends parties or playing sports with them because my ideals conflict with your reality" is not a tenable position.
      - ipaddr 4y ago
        Not to worry your kids friends will share that they have a party. If you forbid your daughter from dating a guy they will find there way around that somehow.
      - mlatu 4y ago
        you forgot something... here, just add: "your mileage may vary" and bob's your aunty
      - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
        > Taking the consequences works fine if you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. Yeah, definitely. I'm just responsible for myself. The day I have to be responsible for others, I'll just immigrate to a country where everybody uses Telegram haha.
    - rndmio 4y ago
      Tbh I'm kind of amused that you rail against WhatsApp and then went and installed Telegram rather than Signal.
      - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
        I have done my research well and I still support Telegram. I don't think Signal has what is needed to rival WhatsApp. Telegram is a much better option that does not sell your user data and still has the best privacy options. Where most people like to disagree is the security part, but E2EE is not as important to me as long as my privacy is respected.
        4y ago
  - adesanmi 4y ago
    This is a blessing, not a curse.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    This is just rationalizing FOMO. Of course you don't know the things you don't know.
    - 411111111111111 4y ago
      Except you actually are getting excluded in a lot of conversations after uninstalling, thus it's not just a fear... So it's not FOMO, it's just plain MO.
    - closewith 4y ago
      Yes, I continue to use WhatsApp because I have fear of missing out. Missing out on conversations from my extended family, friends (only about 1/4 use Signal and all groups are on WhatsApp), work (the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp), voluntary undertakings (all of which are organised on WhatsApp), organising stuff for the kids (again all on WhatsApp). So it's a valid fear based on the reality in my social circle and country. Unilaterally moving to Signal means self-imposed isolation.
      - jen20 4y ago
        > the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp This part is terrifying: does Ireland not have the equivalent of HSR (UK, in combination with a patchwork of other legislation) or HIPAA?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - erehweb 4y ago
        Interested in a bit more context re Ireland Health Service - how does this work with older people / those in remote areas?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - 4y ago
  - mvuksano 4y ago
    And that's a good thing maybe.
  - 1659447091 4y ago
    I look at this as being more of a hidden blessing. The people I had been actual friends with, not just acquaintances, had no problems adding Signal. It was mostly for expat friends since in my part of the US we just SMS/iMessage, and we have group messages on Signal for the couple of mixed-location mutual friends. They still use WhatsApp for their other contacts but turns out this filtered for the people that cared enough if I were in their life or not. Even after making the effort to keep up with the ones that only wanted to use WhatsApps, through email or regular text message, they couldn't be bothered. I guess I have moved into the point in my life where I prefer the quality of friends who wanted me around for more than being an extra body to fill out their party guest list (and similar).
bsenftner 4y ago
This is so wrong, it demonstrates how our human society is fundamentally broken, if not operated and manipulated.
tinus_hn 4y ago
A tale about choices and consequences.
belter 4y ago
And I confess to have done that, to achieve exactly those expected consequences... :-)
pleb_nz 4y ago
Lucky here, Whatsapp isn't the goto

luluganeta 4y ago

that's a nice company, but parent comment had a really important point about depending on Whatsapp for basic social interaction. most informal social groups, parents included, now communicate mainly on whatsapp. You can naturally say no (i did) but then your kid is left out of most social events unless you're actively syncing with other parents every week to be in the loop (which is what i do and it's excruciating). Whatsapp as a platform is extremely convenient, which is why other people will have a hard time understanding your reluctance to adhere, it's not uncommon to be seen as eccentric. so again, congratulations on finding a great company, but there are real issues with the general social dependence on a single invasive platform.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago
Yeah, I totally understand your point. I had to be the stubborn one to leave WhatsApp and refuse any communication unless they contact me on Telegram. Some didn't like it at first, but thankfully most of them now love Telegram. I have a “My way or the highway” kinda attitude when it comes to WhatsApp, it has certainly caused problems once or twice, but I'm very firm on my stance against Facebook apps.
- duud 4y ago
  How is Telegram more privacy preserving than WhatsApp?
  - tcfhgj 4y ago
    It isn't. It creates massive barriers for using e2ee
    - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
      I get where you're coming from but Telegram is objectively better than WhatsApp due to several reasons: - Privacy controls for each user. - No hard requirement for a phone number. - Cloud encryption. - Open Source clients. - Telegram's track record. - Business model not revolving around selling user data. WhatsApp is a black box and nobody has any good arguments for it other than 'supposed' E2EE that nobody knows anything about. The fact that WhatsApp's T&C forbid you from even reverse engineering the obfuscated binaries and Facebook being the force behind WhatsApp, I'm still surprised that people take their E2EE claim seriously. It's like me promising you that I'm not looking at you, while I stand facing you, right behind you.

bilekas 4y ago

Ignoring the red flag the company would require whatsapp, I can easily see a company not forcing you to use it and being okay. But as op mentioned > kids' sports activities and parent groups Try telling your kids football team coach that you object to Whatsapp and your kids friends' parents that you will not join Facebook for privacy reasons, it's a much harder ask, they might say fine, but you can't expect other people to change their behavior based on your beliefs. No matter how right you are.

malka 4y ago
Then, lie. "I can't because my Facebook got hacked, and I got banned from Facebook. I tried multiple time to recreate an account but it was banned each time :('

mbesto 4y ago

> My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. IANAL but if this is on your personal device they can't compel you to do so. Otherwise they need to provide a company issued device.