6 ms·

> after she was first contacted by investigators, she carried out an elaborate attempt to frame her housekeeper Not only that, but she continued to make purcha

> after she was first contacted by investigators, she carried out an elaborate attempt to frame her housekeeper Not only that, but she continued to make purchases! For all the dumb things she did prior to that contact (using her own addresses and a phone that's trivially associated with her), continuing to make buys while you know damn well you're being watched is just breathtakingly stupid. I don't get it.

samstave 4y ago
So youre telling me, all I need to do to get a seat on the San Jose California Police Union, is to not frame my housekeeper for my illegal drug smuggling empire, which certainly NEVER involved any of the upstanding cops in the actual police dept? - My father was a cop in Oakland in the '70s... He resigned after he witnessed OPD murder several people. His famous quote was "Once you're looking for 'bad' everywhere - pretty soon, thats all you can see'" -- When I grew up in the 80s in Lake Tahoe (we moved from Oakland to Tahoe in 1979) -- the cops were known to have been outcasts from San Jose CA for being the worst offenders, and were pushed back to Tahoe as 'punishment' (in the same way that Catholic priests are 'punished')... We knew that the Tahoe cops were jerks, and it was widely known they were all San Jose rejects... Anyway, I got caught in a bit of legal trouble in 7th grade (was taking boats out for joy rides and leaving them on beaches)... And the 'detective' who found me was later found out as being on Escobar's pay roll.... In the 1980s, Escobar was flying in tons of cocaine to truckee and south lake tahoe, and this cop, and the dad of a kid I went to school with were the guys who were funneling all that coke to Vegas and Reno...
- mistrial9 4y ago
  interesting -- an old man that built Casinos and lived in .. Sparks.. had a son who was a good-enough skier and definitely local to Tahoe in the 80s. The son had an "ad agency" which turned out to be a front for this activity. "You have to make a thousand a day" he was rumored to say.. that means a thousand in your pocket each day in good times, or just cash moving when things are slow. What you say about Escobar and local flights, that fits. Miami Vice was a TV show at that time, not entirely fictional!
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  That's interesting, didn't know you were from Oakland. You might also want to read this other bit of local news that surfaced earlier this week. https://oaklandside.org/2023/03/27/murder-conviction-overturned-oakland-police-charles-butler-giovonte-douglas-witness-false-testimony/ https://oaklandside.org/2023/03/27/murder-conviction-overtur...
  - samstave 4y ago
    Yeah... and I am ashamed that I helped architect OPD's goveCloud deployment...
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  OPD is… not great. Twenty years on and they're still under federal receivership.
  - phkahler 4y ago
    That adds another level...
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  I'd rather live in a town with cops that are busy running a coke smuggling operation than live in a town with bored cops.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    This is the plot of quite a few comedies...
    - smcin 4y ago
      ... and several Carl Hiaasen novels
  - lazide 4y ago
    Depends. Which one would you rather bump into at 2am when ‘no one is supposed to be out’?
    - notjulianjaynes 4y ago
      I've been pulled over for minor traffic infractions almost exclusively by bored cops in rural or college towns, and I live next to a city who's narcotics division is presently being sued by the US DOJ. I'm white though.
      - lazide 4y ago
        Pulled over != shaken down or shot to remove witnesses, is I guess what I’m hinting at. A department with bored, but honest, cops will be pretty safe - and stay boring. Albeit with annoyances like traffic rules being enforced. A department with criminals running it will do what the criminals need, including murdering whoever they need to. If they’re smart, maybe it means the other criminals steer clear?
- pyuser583 4y ago
  I live in city with a pretty squeaky clean police department. They are extremely paranoid when hiring - especially “experienced” officers who often turn out to be rejects. Recently the BLM folks were able to get a big say in police hiring. They’ve been demanding more Black officers. It’s hard to get any officers at all, and the city doesn’t have many Black residents. So they’ve been pushing to change the rules about hiring officers with “previous experience” - basically turning “previous experience” from a negative to a positive.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    > They are extremely paranoid when hiring - especially “experienced” officers who often turn out to be rejects. > So they’ve been pushing to change the rules about hiring officers with “previous experience” - basically turning “previous experience” from a negative to a positive. It's crazy. You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of reality.
    - lazide 4y ago
      You’d be surprised - if you can find the right scapegoats, folks can even do that for a long time!
- steve76 4y ago
  [dead]
sophacles 4y ago
The idea is that continuing to make purchases adds plausibility to the framing. You appear as if you are cooperating fully, and innocent (because a guilty person who knows they are being investigated stops doing the illegal thing). If it was the housekeeper doing the crime, they wouldn't know bout the investigation so they would keep criming. Since you don't know how long you've been monitored prior to learning of the investigation you don't want to suddenly change the routine either... Same reasoning as the first point. The only real move you have is to hope hope the evidence points at the housekeeper and the frame-up tricks the investigators. Im not saying i agree with any of the above, but it's the type of reasoning behind the actions.
- function_seven 4y ago
  I can't believe I didn't think it through like this. I reverse my judgement here. There are two ways this can play out for the accused: (1) The misdirection works and she's off scot-free, or (2) it fails, and she's in roughly the same amount of trouble as she would have been had she not continued making the purchases. Thanks.
  - behringer 4y ago
    Roughly yes, but man do I hope that's an extra charge or two.
- roundandround 4y ago
  I don't know if that's it. The old joke was if you get caught its time to expand your business since it will need to support a legal team for decades.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- notSupplied 4y ago
  Honestly not a bad pilot episode right there.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
adamwong246 4y ago
It is almost as if the police believe they can act with impunity.
- nradov 4y ago
  The suspect in this case was not a police officer.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    But at least we can agree she was police adjacent right?
    - bhhaskin 4y ago
      That is like saying she was union adjacent and so all unions are bad. Let's not distort the facts.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        We're not saying that all police are bad. We are saying her crimes are made worse by her police adjacency
      - jMyles 4y ago
        It is possible to refrain from oversimplifying (all police officers are "bad", all unions are "bad") while still synthesizing a plausible theory: Police union interests are aligned with the interests of drug cartels and other grave threats to society, for each keeps the other relevant.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
    wait... who is in a "police union" and not a police officer?
    - nradov 4y ago
      She was not a police union member, just an employee of the union. Unions frequently hire non-member administrative staff.
P_I_Staker 4y ago
It's also extremely common. Like more than you could possibly imagine, including other forms of crime. I'm not sure if the reasoning is fairly complex, or boils down to a couple factors, a few I can name: 1. People inflate their lifestyles to depend on crime income, and the financial situation doesn't exactly improve when they get caught; you get new expenses 2. Pathology... ie. they just can't help themselves. If you've known a klepto, or pathological liar, you know they are often addicted. It's bizarre to see behaviors like stealing in the same way as drug addiction, but they can be. 3. They simply think they'll get away with it. Good chance they thought they wouldn't get caught in the first place. So now they just got to tweak the method, or figure it will take the same amount of time to catch up with them; by then they'll be out of it (and in prison) You can see this kind of thing with white collar crime and almost everything. Even with sex criminals. There was a guy that committed many sex assaults by intentionally attempting to infect w/HIV, through deception... (said he was using protection). Kept doing it after getting caught. Guess it doesn't make sense to question why a criminal would act like a criminal.

samstave 4y ago

So youre telling me, all I need to do to get a seat on the San Jose California Police Union, is to not frame my housekeeper for my illegal drug smuggling empire, which certainly NEVER involved any of the upstanding cops in the actual police dept? - My father was a cop in Oakland in the '70s... He resigned after he witnessed OPD murder several people. His famous quote was "Once you're looking for 'bad' everywhere - pretty soon, thats all you can see'" -- When I grew up in the 80s in Lake Tahoe (we moved from Oakland to Tahoe in 1979) -- the cops were known to have been outcasts from San Jose CA for being the worst offenders, and were pushed back to Tahoe as 'punishment' (in the same way that Catholic priests are 'punished')... We knew that the Tahoe cops were jerks, and it was widely known they were all San Jose rejects... Anyway, I got caught in a bit of legal trouble in 7th grade (was taking boats out for joy rides and leaving them on beaches)... And the 'detective' who found me was later found out as being on Escobar's pay roll.... In the 1980s, Escobar was flying in tons of cocaine to truckee and south lake tahoe, and this cop, and the dad of a kid I went to school with were the guys who were funneling all that coke to Vegas and Reno...

mistrial9 4y ago
interesting -- an old man that built Casinos and lived in .. Sparks.. had a son who was a good-enough skier and definitely local to Tahoe in the 80s. The son had an "ad agency" which turned out to be a front for this activity. "You have to make a thousand a day" he was rumored to say.. that means a thousand in your pocket each day in good times, or just cash moving when things are slow. What you say about Escobar and local flights, that fits. Miami Vice was a TV show at that time, not entirely fictional!
anigbrowl 4y ago
That's interesting, didn't know you were from Oakland. You might also want to read this other bit of local news that surfaced earlier this week. https://oaklandside.org/2023/03/27/murder-conviction-overturned-oakland-police-charles-butler-giovonte-douglas-witness-false-testimony/ https://oaklandside.org/2023/03/27/murder-conviction-overtur...
- samstave 4y ago
  Yeah... and I am ashamed that I helped architect OPD's goveCloud deployment...
inferiorhuman 4y ago
OPD is… not great. Twenty years on and they're still under federal receivership.
- phkahler 4y ago
  That adds another level...
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
I'd rather live in a town with cops that are busy running a coke smuggling operation than live in a town with bored cops.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  This is the plot of quite a few comedies...
  - smcin 4y ago
    ... and several Carl Hiaasen novels
- lazide 4y ago
  Depends. Which one would you rather bump into at 2am when ‘no one is supposed to be out’?
  - notjulianjaynes 4y ago
    I've been pulled over for minor traffic infractions almost exclusively by bored cops in rural or college towns, and I live next to a city who's narcotics division is presently being sued by the US DOJ. I'm white though.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Pulled over != shaken down or shot to remove witnesses, is I guess what I’m hinting at. A department with bored, but honest, cops will be pretty safe - and stay boring. Albeit with annoyances like traffic rules being enforced. A department with criminals running it will do what the criminals need, including murdering whoever they need to. If they’re smart, maybe it means the other criminals steer clear?
pyuser583 4y ago
I live in city with a pretty squeaky clean police department. They are extremely paranoid when hiring - especially “experienced” officers who often turn out to be rejects. Recently the BLM folks were able to get a big say in police hiring. They’ve been demanding more Black officers. It’s hard to get any officers at all, and the city doesn’t have many Black residents. So they’ve been pushing to change the rules about hiring officers with “previous experience” - basically turning “previous experience” from a negative to a positive.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  > They are extremely paranoid when hiring - especially “experienced” officers who often turn out to be rejects. > So they’ve been pushing to change the rules about hiring officers with “previous experience” - basically turning “previous experience” from a negative to a positive. It's crazy. You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of reality.
  - lazide 4y ago
    You’d be surprised - if you can find the right scapegoats, folks can even do that for a long time!
steve76 4y ago
[dead]

sophacles 4y ago

The idea is that continuing to make purchases adds plausibility to the framing. You appear as if you are cooperating fully, and innocent (because a guilty person who knows they are being investigated stops doing the illegal thing). If it was the housekeeper doing the crime, they wouldn't know bout the investigation so they would keep criming. Since you don't know how long you've been monitored prior to learning of the investigation you don't want to suddenly change the routine either... Same reasoning as the first point. The only real move you have is to hope hope the evidence points at the housekeeper and the frame-up tricks the investigators. Im not saying i agree with any of the above, but it's the type of reasoning behind the actions.

function_seven 4y ago
I can't believe I didn't think it through like this. I reverse my judgement here. There are two ways this can play out for the accused: (1) The misdirection works and she's off scot-free, or (2) it fails, and she's in roughly the same amount of trouble as she would have been had she not continued making the purchases. Thanks.
- behringer 4y ago
  Roughly yes, but man do I hope that's an extra charge or two.
roundandround 4y ago
I don't know if that's it. The old joke was if you get caught its time to expand your business since it will need to support a legal team for decades.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
notSupplied 4y ago
Honestly not a bad pilot episode right there.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago

adamwong246 4y ago

It is almost as if the police believe they can act with impunity.

nradov 4y ago
The suspect in this case was not a police officer.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  But at least we can agree she was police adjacent right?
  - bhhaskin 4y ago
    That is like saying she was union adjacent and so all unions are bad. Let's not distort the facts.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      We're not saying that all police are bad. We are saying her crimes are made worse by her police adjacency
    - jMyles 4y ago
      It is possible to refrain from oversimplifying (all police officers are "bad", all unions are "bad") while still synthesizing a plausible theory: Police union interests are aligned with the interests of drug cartels and other grave threats to society, for each keeps the other relevant.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
  wait... who is in a "police union" and not a police officer?
  - nradov 4y ago
    She was not a police union member, just an employee of the union. Unions frequently hire non-member administrative staff.

P_I_Staker 4y ago

It's also extremely common. Like more than you could possibly imagine, including other forms of crime. I'm not sure if the reasoning is fairly complex, or boils down to a couple factors, a few I can name: 1. People inflate their lifestyles to depend on crime income, and the financial situation doesn't exactly improve when they get caught; you get new expenses 2. Pathology... ie. they just can't help themselves. If you've known a klepto, or pathological liar, you know they are often addicted. It's bizarre to see behaviors like stealing in the same way as drug addiction, but they can be. 3. They simply think they'll get away with it. Good chance they thought they wouldn't get caught in the first place. So now they just got to tweak the method, or figure it will take the same amount of time to catch up with them; by then they'll be out of it (and in prison) You can see this kind of thing with white collar crime and almost everything. Even with sex criminals. There was a guy that committed many sex assaults by intentionally attempting to infect w/HIV, through deception... (said he was using protection). Kept doing it after getting caught. Guess it doesn't make sense to question why a criminal would act like a criminal.