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The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. So

The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.

brucethemoose2 4y ago
We kinda do... in a limited fashion... for Bedrock. Java MC's development had always been extremely conservative, and it always will be under Mojang. Its both saved it from going downhill and weighed it down.
- c7DJTLrn 4y ago
  It's a shame Bedrock modding (behaviour packs?) is so limited. The performance is so much better than the Java version. It's also a shame it has Xbox shit and microtransactions shoved in.
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    Well the Java version is so moddable because its Java, thats almost impossible for Bedrock unless it goes open source or moves to unobfuscated C# (which is impossible because of the MTX of course).
    - nottorp 4y ago
      Bedrock has IAPs now? I mean it was useless anyway for running a private server, and only runs on Windows, and automation is limited because they crippled the world update distance to have the omg raytracing! or whatever. And now it has IAPs too?
      - zamadatix 4y ago
        Bedrock has had IAPs for many years. It's fine for a private server and they offer Windows and Linux versions of it (client side it supports pretty much every platform except Mac/Linux, including oddities like ChromeOS). Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. World update distance default is lower in Realms but can be configured on a private server or client hosted session. It's not really related to raytracing, simulation range has little to do with that. Both clients/servers have their ups and downs. I do wish they'd release the Bedrock client for Mac/Linux though. Then all platforms would have an official way to interop.
        nottorp 4y ago
        > It's fine for a private server Land claim / griefing protection? Multiplayer sleep? Custom recipes? Dynmap? Multiverse? WorldGuard rules? :) Edit because I can't reply any more: > to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate All that for the privilege of running the Bedrock client on a Mac with Crossover, I guess. Nah, they can keep it. I didn't even claim the free Bedrock when they were giving it free to java owners. On the server I play we're looking forward to testing Folia so redstone addicts will only lag themselves and not everyone btw.
        zamadatix 4y ago
        > Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. That said multiplayer sleep, custom recipes, bedrock-viz, and others exist. Customized protection I've found to be lacking though. But honestly if you're looking at that many 3rd party things you might find it easier to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate. It still has limitations compared to a native java (client, server, mod) tuple but it's probably easier to adapt to if you're used to java server.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - c7DJTLrn 4y ago
      Does modding need to mean actually modifying game files? When we say modding, we generally mean adding new blocks, items, and behaviours no? Surely this could be done with a public API? It might not give you quite as much freedom as existing mods but you could get most of the way there.
      - brucethemoose2 4y ago
        I'm not sure you understand how mechanically complex MC modding gets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA ... and that is just one mod. There are mods for interplanetary space travel, mods for modular portals and matter-energy conversion, mods for full z height terrain gen and massive premade structures, mods for virtual NPCs and towns, "backend" mods that overhaul the render, light engine, chunk loading and such. You cant get that with simple block APIs (which Java and Bedrock have to a limited extent). And we do have modding APIs, like Fabric and Forge. They are just unofficial. That being said, there is a better middle ground between the current extremely limited official APIs and the very permissive unofficial modding APIs, but it will never happen because it would interfere with Bedrock's MTX, and Java's development is too conservative.
        imtringued 4y ago
        You seem to underestimate the amount of modding that vanilla Minecraft servers have, such as Wynncraft or Hypixel Skyblock. They turn Minecraft into a completely different game and most of the changes are server side. Also, Fabric and Forge are not modding APIs. They sometimes provide extra APIs on top of the base game to make mod compatibility easier, but you are very much supposed to just mess around with the Minecraft codebase directly and directly reference Mojang classes in your code. If all you want to do is add a new block in Fabric you don't touch any Fabric API.
        brucethemoose2 4y ago
        Yeah no question that server only modding is huge too. Its like 2 completely different ecosystems.
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    Also Java performance doesn't have to be so horrendous, that is Mojang'a fault. They could iron it out with a tiny fraction of their sales. That being said, the low hanging mod fruit they could incorporate is often poisoned by GPL or some other weird license.
    - jayd16 4y ago
      Why isn't there a mod to iron out the performance if its so trivial?
      - brucethemoose2 4y ago
        There are many such mods. There have been for years. https://github.com/TheUsefulLists/UsefulMods#performance-and-bug-fixing-mods https://github.com/TheUsefulLists/UsefulMods#performance-and...
      - creatonez 4y ago
        See https://github.com/Fabulously-Optimized/fabulously-optimized/blob/main/INCLUDED-MODS.md https://github.com/Fabulously-Optimized/fabulously-optimized...
    - imtringued 4y ago
      There is no reason for Mojang to copy mods. It is better for them to develop their own solution so that they can maintain parity between Java and bedrock edition.
      - brucethemoose2 4y ago
        Well they have had the opportunity to (for instance) overhaul the renderer or thread dimensions since 1.0 in 2011, and we are still here tapping our feet. They have tried to pull in mods before, but unfortunate drama that ensued probably soured them on that idea.
robotnikman 4y ago
I remember, back before Mojang was acquired by Microsoft the devs mentioned working on a modding API, and how it would allow for all kinds of things. I have a feeling such plans were killed off during the acquisition, as it has never been mentioned since then. Even now it would be simple for the devs to allow players to add new blocks and items via server sent resource packs without needed a modded client, and yet for some reason they do not. I still have to thanks Bukkit/Spigot for getting me in to Java in the first place tough, and thus my current position as a Java dev. I don't follow it as often but I still maintain a small server my friends play on.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  There's a lot of drama there. Basically, there was Bukkit. In 2011, Mojang hired a bunch of Bukkit's developers, but didn't tell anyone that they also legally took control of the Bukkit project. This was because Mojang didn't really want Bukkit to be their official API as much as being a temporary API for the time being (and also didn't want to have anyone assume they would be responsible for it), but from that point, Bukkit was legally their project and the community didn't know. Then, Mojang changed their EULA to ban Pay-to-win servers. This caused a lot of controversy, and one of the Bukkit developers left. Mojang then revealed that, yeah, they owned Bukkit for years, so they didn't need him. Another developer, feeling betrayed, who had contributed to Bukkit, submitted a DMCA takedown against his own code bringing Bukkit down with it, angry at having done "free labor." (You might say, "but the GPL!," but being tricked into a contract under false pretenses can legally invalidate contracts, making the GPL-license for his contributions potentially invalid.) Mojang panicked at the takedown and a ton of developers abandoned ship, working on Bukkit's community fork Spigot. Mojang then 2.5 months later brought Bukkit back and that time really just threw it into the community's hands. The result of the aftermath was everyone had restructured around Spigot, based on Bukkit; and Mojang wasn't going to deal with APIs and open-source stuff for a long while afterwards. (They did later try purchasing parts of OptiFine, but the developer wanted compatibility to be all-or-nothing which Mojang wouldn't accept.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/6g1tqn/psa_no_bukkit_isnt_dead_and_it_basically_never_was/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/6g1tqn/psa_no_bu... https://blog.jwf.io/2020/04/open-source-minecraft-bukkit-gpl/ https://blog.jwf.io/2020/04/open-source-minecraft-bukkit-gpl... https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2fk5nn/my_response_to_vubui_mojang_and_the_hundreds_yes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2fk5nn/my_respon...
whalesalad 4y ago
In other words, grass roots open source development is hard :)
perihelions 4y ago
- "Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit" We're not old, the forks just fly by so very fast
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  Yeah, but Bukkit is ancient - so ancient, upstreaming is basically impossible and even discouraged because it would break compatibility with the few people who still need it. It's really only maintained as a reference architecture by Spigot because it helps with initial Minecraft release reverse-engineering. Spigot, meanwhile, is run by one developer who only posts his code within a few weeks of a Minecraft launch after working on it completely privately. Paper has examined taking over that role, but has decided against it for the time being until they are ready to fully take on that job because... it's not an easy job and he's basically mastered it (Paper would be much slower if they were doing it themselves for the first few releases). Also he runs the plugin repository and Paper isn't ready to launch their own yet. Also, Spigot and Bukkit have this ancient API that not many plugins use, but a few do... and it'd be nice to not break them. So Paper is the first remotely reasonable downstream with a big open-source community for it, which then makes it more like... one fork. And even though Paper is technically reliant on Spigot (and Spigot on Bukkit), Paper can really cut them off whenever convenient. And there's a good reason to make Folia a fork - the way it works under the hood is very different than a traditional Minecraft server, and it basically breaks all the Spigot and Paper and Bukkit plugin compatibility.
jeroenhd 4y ago
Minecraft server forks almost seem to develop as fast as Javascript toolkits. It's impressive, in a way. I think this has to do with the way that ultimate, true upstream involves the closed source Microsoft components. None of these servers seem to be built from the ground up, each extending an existing package (closed or open source) in one way or another.
bakugo 4y ago
What exactly would the point of an official modding API be, even? Anything Mojang could provide would inevitably be inferior to what can be done by directly modifying the game's code via existing third party mod APIs.
nightpool 4y ago
Folia is a complete re-write of Minecraft's core game loop to support "true multithreading and regionalized ticking" ("ticking" being the term for a single turn of Minecraft's core game event loop). Even the most ambitious official modding API in the world would never ever contemplate supporting something as thorough and involved as this. Minecraft does in fact have an official plugin API, known as data packs—they're obviously more limited then the ability to completely rewrite the game's code, but they can create new blocks, items, entities, customize their behavior, change worldgen, add achievements, and more. Here's an example of a "bendy pistons" mod that was built entirely using the datapacks API, with no mods required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wk7ZUYkrpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wk7ZUYkrpI (and 7 more features from the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRvq6H11bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRvq6H11bs)
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Oh my god, bendy pistons are ridiculous. Thanks for that.
sobkas 4y ago
> The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. > So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason. Time and effort you put into upstreaming patches is almost always wasted, either you get it included and then have to maintain it forever or it will get removed due to bitrot or developers will just say no and all your effort was wasted. Don't forget that developers might also want to share their opinions about you based on your commit. There is no better way to build community than saying that no one cares about you inside of it.
bscphil 4y ago
> I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason. My insanely biased impression based on my experience is that this is just the norm for Windows-centric development. Generally you have no expectation of being given access to source code at all; if software is free then it's "freeware", but for whatever reason the developers don't generally want you modifying it. So many power user tools just died out when their developers quit working on them because the source code was not available, at least not under a free license. I remember back in the early days of Minecraft (beta+ era) I'd just go on the forum and download random jar files uploaded by whomever, and mod Minecraft with them. Nobody asked for source code. Or thinking about doom9, for years and years the norm for tool development was that you'd download a random exe from someone on a forum, with a single thread for "support". If they disappeared one day, that was it. That's also the way a bunch of Android stuff is/was developed on xda-dev. The more Linux-centric set of norms has expanded outward into a pretty robust open source ecosystem, but it's by no means the universal norm for free (as in beer) software development. Even in cases like Paper / Bukkit where the source is free, building the software yourself is very much not the norm, often is not even supported.
- Cyphase 4y ago
  I've gotten the same impression. So many Windows tools are given away for free, no hint of ever monetizing or anything, just a hobby / service by the developer, and yet no code is provided. I remember hearing an explanation from one such solo developer with a relatively recognizable brand that he doesn't want people to be able to easily replicate his tools with added malware / adware. But I feel like download sites have been doing that for years anyway. He has released at least one tiny but useful piece of code as public domain. Also he does have one product that charges for. I suppose one potential reason to keep code private is to maintain more control of the free tools for purposes of branding and bringing attention to the pay tool? That's just a thought.
imtringued 4y ago
Folia most likely breaks compatibility with plugins so forking is to be expected. If you ignore server plugins, the only effort in actually trying to build a modding API is Quilt and it's Quilt Standard Libraries, which you probably guesses further splits the modding community into Forge, Fabric and now Quilt but that is on the Forge and Fabric guys for not even trying.
irascibeth 4y ago
Bukkit was in fact preceded by hey0's mod, the project of a 15 year old kid who was largely responsible for bootstrapping the entire line of Minecraft server mod APIs. After all these years though it is extremely exciting to see this advancement, I'd expect this to allow extremely large servers. Makes me want to start playing again ^_^
LelouBil 4y ago
Mojang releases the deobfuscation mappings for each version nowadays.

brucethemoose2 4y ago

We kinda do... in a limited fashion... for Bedrock. Java MC's development had always been extremely conservative, and it always will be under Mojang. Its both saved it from going downhill and weighed it down.

c7DJTLrn 4y ago
It's a shame Bedrock modding (behaviour packs?) is so limited. The performance is so much better than the Java version. It's also a shame it has Xbox shit and microtransactions shoved in.
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  Well the Java version is so moddable because its Java, thats almost impossible for Bedrock unless it goes open source or moves to unobfuscated C# (which is impossible because of the MTX of course).
  - nottorp 4y ago
    Bedrock has IAPs now? I mean it was useless anyway for running a private server, and only runs on Windows, and automation is limited because they crippled the world update distance to have the omg raytracing! or whatever. And now it has IAPs too?
    - zamadatix 4y ago
      Bedrock has had IAPs for many years. It's fine for a private server and they offer Windows and Linux versions of it (client side it supports pretty much every platform except Mac/Linux, including oddities like ChromeOS). Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. World update distance default is lower in Realms but can be configured on a private server or client hosted session. It's not really related to raytracing, simulation range has little to do with that. Both clients/servers have their ups and downs. I do wish they'd release the Bedrock client for Mac/Linux though. Then all platforms would have an official way to interop.
      - nottorp 4y ago
        > It's fine for a private server Land claim / griefing protection? Multiplayer sleep? Custom recipes? Dynmap? Multiverse? WorldGuard rules? :) Edit because I can't reply any more: > to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate All that for the privilege of running the Bedrock client on a Mac with Crossover, I guess. Nah, they can keep it. I didn't even claim the free Bedrock when they were giving it free to java owners. On the server I play we're looking forward to testing Folia so redstone addicts will only lag themselves and not everyone btw.
        zamadatix 4y ago
        > Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. That said multiplayer sleep, custom recipes, bedrock-viz, and others exist. Customized protection I've found to be lacking though. But honestly if you're looking at that many 3rd party things you might find it easier to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate. It still has limitations compared to a native java (client, server, mod) tuple but it's probably easier to adapt to if you're used to java server.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - c7DJTLrn 4y ago
    Does modding need to mean actually modifying game files? When we say modding, we generally mean adding new blocks, items, and behaviours no? Surely this could be done with a public API? It might not give you quite as much freedom as existing mods but you could get most of the way there.
    - brucethemoose2 4y ago
      I'm not sure you understand how mechanically complex MC modding gets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA ... and that is just one mod. There are mods for interplanetary space travel, mods for modular portals and matter-energy conversion, mods for full z height terrain gen and massive premade structures, mods for virtual NPCs and towns, "backend" mods that overhaul the render, light engine, chunk loading and such. You cant get that with simple block APIs (which Java and Bedrock have to a limited extent). And we do have modding APIs, like Fabric and Forge. They are just unofficial. That being said, there is a better middle ground between the current extremely limited official APIs and the very permissive unofficial modding APIs, but it will never happen because it would interfere with Bedrock's MTX, and Java's development is too conservative.
      - imtringued 4y ago
        You seem to underestimate the amount of modding that vanilla Minecraft servers have, such as Wynncraft or Hypixel Skyblock. They turn Minecraft into a completely different game and most of the changes are server side. Also, Fabric and Forge are not modding APIs. They sometimes provide extra APIs on top of the base game to make mod compatibility easier, but you are very much supposed to just mess around with the Minecraft codebase directly and directly reference Mojang classes in your code. If all you want to do is add a new block in Fabric you don't touch any Fabric API.
        brucethemoose2 4y ago
        Yeah no question that server only modding is huge too. Its like 2 completely different ecosystems.
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  Also Java performance doesn't have to be so horrendous, that is Mojang'a fault. They could iron it out with a tiny fraction of their sales. That being said, the low hanging mod fruit they could incorporate is often poisoned by GPL or some other weird license.
  - jayd16 4y ago
    Why isn't there a mod to iron out the performance if its so trivial?
    - brucethemoose2 4y ago
      There are many such mods. There have been for years. https://github.com/TheUsefulLists/UsefulMods#performance-and-bug-fixing-mods https://github.com/TheUsefulLists/UsefulMods#performance-and...
    - creatonez 4y ago
      See https://github.com/Fabulously-Optimized/fabulously-optimized/blob/main/INCLUDED-MODS.md https://github.com/Fabulously-Optimized/fabulously-optimized...
  - imtringued 4y ago
    There is no reason for Mojang to copy mods. It is better for them to develop their own solution so that they can maintain parity between Java and bedrock edition.
    - brucethemoose2 4y ago
      Well they have had the opportunity to (for instance) overhaul the renderer or thread dimensions since 1.0 in 2011, and we are still here tapping our feet. They have tried to pull in mods before, but unfortunate drama that ensued probably soured them on that idea.

robotnikman 4y ago

I remember, back before Mojang was acquired by Microsoft the devs mentioned working on a modding API, and how it would allow for all kinds of things. I have a feeling such plans were killed off during the acquisition, as it has never been mentioned since then. Even now it would be simple for the devs to allow players to add new blocks and items via server sent resource packs without needed a modded client, and yet for some reason they do not. I still have to thanks Bukkit/Spigot for getting me in to Java in the first place tough, and thus my current position as a Java dev. I don't follow it as often but I still maintain a small server my friends play on.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
There's a lot of drama there. Basically, there was Bukkit. In 2011, Mojang hired a bunch of Bukkit's developers, but didn't tell anyone that they also legally took control of the Bukkit project. This was because Mojang didn't really want Bukkit to be their official API as much as being a temporary API for the time being (and also didn't want to have anyone assume they would be responsible for it), but from that point, Bukkit was legally their project and the community didn't know. Then, Mojang changed their EULA to ban Pay-to-win servers. This caused a lot of controversy, and one of the Bukkit developers left. Mojang then revealed that, yeah, they owned Bukkit for years, so they didn't need him. Another developer, feeling betrayed, who had contributed to Bukkit, submitted a DMCA takedown against his own code bringing Bukkit down with it, angry at having done "free labor." (You might say, "but the GPL!," but being tricked into a contract under false pretenses can legally invalidate contracts, making the GPL-license for his contributions potentially invalid.) Mojang panicked at the takedown and a ton of developers abandoned ship, working on Bukkit's community fork Spigot. Mojang then 2.5 months later brought Bukkit back and that time really just threw it into the community's hands. The result of the aftermath was everyone had restructured around Spigot, based on Bukkit; and Mojang wasn't going to deal with APIs and open-source stuff for a long while afterwards. (They did later try purchasing parts of OptiFine, but the developer wanted compatibility to be all-or-nothing which Mojang wouldn't accept.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/6g1tqn/psa_no_bukkit_isnt_dead_and_it_basically_never_was/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/6g1tqn/psa_no_bu... https://blog.jwf.io/2020/04/open-source-minecraft-bukkit-gpl/ https://blog.jwf.io/2020/04/open-source-minecraft-bukkit-gpl... https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2fk5nn/my_response_to_vubui_mojang_and_the_hundreds_yes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2fk5nn/my_respon...

whalesalad 4y ago

In other words, grass roots open source development is hard :)

perihelions 4y ago

- "Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit" We're not old, the forks just fly by so very fast

gjsman-1000 4y ago
Yeah, but Bukkit is ancient - so ancient, upstreaming is basically impossible and even discouraged because it would break compatibility with the few people who still need it. It's really only maintained as a reference architecture by Spigot because it helps with initial Minecraft release reverse-engineering. Spigot, meanwhile, is run by one developer who only posts his code within a few weeks of a Minecraft launch after working on it completely privately. Paper has examined taking over that role, but has decided against it for the time being until they are ready to fully take on that job because... it's not an easy job and he's basically mastered it (Paper would be much slower if they were doing it themselves for the first few releases). Also he runs the plugin repository and Paper isn't ready to launch their own yet. Also, Spigot and Bukkit have this ancient API that not many plugins use, but a few do... and it'd be nice to not break them. So Paper is the first remotely reasonable downstream with a big open-source community for it, which then makes it more like... one fork. And even though Paper is technically reliant on Spigot (and Spigot on Bukkit), Paper can really cut them off whenever convenient. And there's a good reason to make Folia a fork - the way it works under the hood is very different than a traditional Minecraft server, and it basically breaks all the Spigot and Paper and Bukkit plugin compatibility.

jeroenhd 4y ago

Minecraft server forks almost seem to develop as fast as Javascript toolkits. It's impressive, in a way. I think this has to do with the way that ultimate, true upstream involves the closed source Microsoft components. None of these servers seem to be built from the ground up, each extending an existing package (closed or open source) in one way or another.

bakugo 4y ago

What exactly would the point of an official modding API be, even? Anything Mojang could provide would inevitably be inferior to what can be done by directly modifying the game's code via existing third party mod APIs.

nightpool 4y ago

Folia is a complete re-write of Minecraft's core game loop to support "true multithreading and regionalized ticking" ("ticking" being the term for a single turn of Minecraft's core game event loop). Even the most ambitious official modding API in the world would never ever contemplate supporting something as thorough and involved as this. Minecraft does in fact have an official plugin API, known as data packs—they're obviously more limited then the ability to completely rewrite the game's code, but they can create new blocks, items, entities, customize their behavior, change worldgen, add achievements, and more. Here's an example of a "bendy pistons" mod that was built entirely using the datapacks API, with no mods required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wk7ZUYkrpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wk7ZUYkrpI (and 7 more features from the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRvq6H11bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRvq6H11bs)

Aeolun 4y ago
Oh my god, bendy pistons are ridiculous. Thanks for that.

sobkas 4y ago

> The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. > So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason. Time and effort you put into upstreaming patches is almost always wasted, either you get it included and then have to maintain it forever or it will get removed due to bitrot or developers will just say no and all your effort was wasted. Don't forget that developers might also want to share their opinions about you based on your commit. There is no better way to build community than saying that no one cares about you inside of it.

bscphil 4y ago

> I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason. My insanely biased impression based on my experience is that this is just the norm for Windows-centric development. Generally you have no expectation of being given access to source code at all; if software is free then it's "freeware", but for whatever reason the developers don't generally want you modifying it. So many power user tools just died out when their developers quit working on them because the source code was not available, at least not under a free license. I remember back in the early days of Minecraft (beta+ era) I'd just go on the forum and download random jar files uploaded by whomever, and mod Minecraft with them. Nobody asked for source code. Or thinking about doom9, for years and years the norm for tool development was that you'd download a random exe from someone on a forum, with a single thread for "support". If they disappeared one day, that was it. That's also the way a bunch of Android stuff is/was developed on xda-dev. The more Linux-centric set of norms has expanded outward into a pretty robust open source ecosystem, but it's by no means the universal norm for free (as in beer) software development. Even in cases like Paper / Bukkit where the source is free, building the software yourself is very much not the norm, often is not even supported.

Cyphase 4y ago
I've gotten the same impression. So many Windows tools are given away for free, no hint of ever monetizing or anything, just a hobby / service by the developer, and yet no code is provided. I remember hearing an explanation from one such solo developer with a relatively recognizable brand that he doesn't want people to be able to easily replicate his tools with added malware / adware. But I feel like download sites have been doing that for years anyway. He has released at least one tiny but useful piece of code as public domain. Also he does have one product that charges for. I suppose one potential reason to keep code private is to maintain more control of the free tools for purposes of branding and bringing attention to the pay tool? That's just a thought.

imtringued 4y ago

Folia most likely breaks compatibility with plugins so forking is to be expected. If you ignore server plugins, the only effort in actually trying to build a modding API is Quilt and it's Quilt Standard Libraries, which you probably guesses further splits the modding community into Forge, Fabric and now Quilt but that is on the Forge and Fabric guys for not even trying.

irascibeth 4y ago

Bukkit was in fact preceded by hey0's mod, the project of a 15 year old kid who was largely responsible for bootstrapping the entire line of Minecraft server mod APIs. After all these years though it is extremely exciting to see this advancement, I'd expect this to allow extremely large servers. Makes me want to start playing again ^_^

LelouBil 4y ago

Mojang releases the deobfuscation mappings for each version nowadays.