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> In this case, TikTok isn't even doing anything illegal as far as we know, because the United States has basically no data privacy laws that would be relevant

> In this case, TikTok isn't even doing anything illegal as far as we know, because the United States has basically no data privacy laws that would be relevant here in the first place. The solution to that problem isn't to ban TikTok, it's to create a regulatory framework where companies are obligated to follow certain rules. That's the thing: TikTok is basically state-sponsored, Apple/Google approved spyware. I don't have a link handy, but I remember reading that security researchers found the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it, meaning that the CCP can make millions of Android phones do whatever they want, especially if the code uploaded includes exploits. But how do you legislate against that sort of thing? Especially when Congress demonstrates how tech illiterate it is? It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. The platform does not not moderate in the slightest any of the various "tiktok challenges", most of which are dangerous to both the participant and general public, as well as causing lots of expensive damage. They could block or de-emphasize any number of the tags used in these "challenges", but instead they seem to boost them. So we have kids sticking forks into electrical sockets in their classrooms and destroying the bathrooms, breaking into Kias and joyriding them at insanely dangerous speeds, purposefully causing people to fall in the most dangerous way possible (kicking their feet out from under them so the brain's natural protective instincts can't protect the head from trauma)...the list just goes on and on. Did anyone notice that damn near every single one of these tiktok challenges seems almost perfectly tailored to cause a lot of damage or injury, and utilizes a population which essentially has nothing to fear from criminal repercussions thanks to our criminal justice system sealing their records once they come of age?

mxkopy 4y ago
> It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. If only we had a system which taught children how to make better decisions. Some sort of teachery, perhaps. Maybe we should focus on investing in such places before laying the blame on what is basically Vine 2.0.
27fingies 4y ago
> the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it you mean like a browser?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- schmuelio 4y ago
  Like basically every browser-based app, so electron apps as well as most android apps. From my understanding iPhone apps work slightly differently but I sincerely doubt that it's not common place in that space as well. I'm not saying that it's definitely completely fine, but it _is_ really common in that space.
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  Like an app that can update itself over the air
killingtime74 4y ago
Are there social media moderation laws? No? Then maybe start there. Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. The only result is the government has been used to eliminate a competitor to Facebook, who cannot compete in the marketplace. Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 4y ago
  > Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. For that to be a relevant argument you would have to amass some relevant user base. I wish you good luck.
- palata 4y ago
  > I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. Isn't that the whole idea here? I mean, with TokTok being a US company, obviously. > Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here. Indeed.
LordDragonfang 4y ago
>the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it So can your web browser. Unless you can actually provide a source here to clarify, you're spreading baseless speculation. Even if the CCP were literally controlling tiktok, it would be stupid of them to turn it into literal malware for a few moments of... what, exactly? And in doing so destroy the most popular social media app of its generation that literally every social app is trying to copy and catch up to. The CCP aren't cartoon villains.
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  You wouldn’t do that at scale unless you were basically going to war anyway. Scenario 1: deploy malware on highly targeted devices Scenario 2: deploy ddos logic or similar to all devices within a region Interpret this as ‘what could happen in theory’ as opposed to any TikTok specific accusation. I’m not even sure it is possible to dynamically execute code under Android or iOS.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    You can dynamically execute code on Android. Not on iOS, as far as I am aware. It's a pretty common design pattern for games, for example.
- schmuelio 4y ago
  I don't know if there's been new stuff about it recently, but there's a good chance this is just sourced from a single reddit post that says they decompiled the app and found "loads of dodgy security problems just trust me" I haven't found a source for this that doesn't trace back to this one reddit post.
tdeck 4y ago
> but I remember reading that security researchers found the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it, This is a pretty normal thing in Android and a number of larger apps (and many games) use it to some extent as a way to modularize the application. An app can basically download dex files or other artifacts, load them, and execute them from within the app's process. While it's arguably not a good feature for the platform to have, this isn't necessarily some kind of diabolical hack. The newer version of this is on-demand dynamic modules (which are hosted by Google), unfortunately I'm drawing a blank recalling what the older DIY version was called. https://developer.android.com/codelabs/on-demand-dynamic-delivery#0 https://developer.android.com/codelabs/on-demand-dynamic-del...
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  Does this permit out of band code execution, or does it require google or similar pre-cache any code to be executed? The latter is still a significant benefit over the former, as it guarantees non-targeted code deployment (at least if you trust the App Store) Edit: and revocation.
  - tdeck 4y ago
    The android platform lets you download code from anuwhere and sideliad it into your app (IIRX Unity can do this for you, for example). The thing I linked to does require you to upload to Play because I can't recall if there's a name for the DIY version. Either way if the app itself is pulled any code downloaded is running within the app, so it goes away too.
warent 4y ago
You know what happens when you ban a young person from doing something? They grow resentful and sympathize with the bad thing. If you shelter a young person, they leave and may never return. Banning Tiktok would be the biggest strategic miscalculation I've ever seen. Basically every Gen Z and half of the millennials will hate the US Govt and sympathize with Tiktok, by extension sympathize with China. Before we flail around hastily trying to shove some ham-fisted laws down our young people, because the immortal warmongering bigoted cockroaches who run this country don't understand how the internet series of tubes works, we should consider very carefully how damaging this will be to our young people's loyalty to the US. If the government is unqualified to make the correct laws, they need to work with people smarter than themselves or step aside, because the consequences of this will be catastrophically worse than stupid dangerous "challenges" which exist outside of Tiktok anyway and have since long before the internet.
- staticman2 4y ago
  You've made an argument that I've seen a bunch of times here. It's a rhetorical argument that goes like this, the content is fairly irrelevent: "Combating [bad thing] actually helps [bad thing]. You see, [bad thing] becomes forbidden fruit when people combat it, and everyone is drawn to forbidden fruit. If you really are concerned about [bad thing] let [bad thing] be unopposed. Let [bad people] do [bad thing]. It's not an argument I find particularly convincing. A cynic might think it allows the person making it to seemingly support [bad thing] without, you know, putting their actually opinion out there that they in fact like [bad thing]. As for the specifics of your argument, within a few months to a year I would expect Millennials to not really give a crap that Tiktok is gone- they would simply move to a Tiktok clone, it would be as uninteresting as WB channel becoming the CW channel.
  - warent 4y ago
    Combating [bad thing] actually helps [bad thing]. That was never said nor do I hold that stance. If you really are concerned about [bad thing] let [bad thing] be unopposed. Let [bad people] do [bad thing]. That was never said nor do I hold that stance. You must have accidentally replied to the wrong comment.
aryanmann 4y ago
I'm not sure I agree about the conspiratorial nature of challenges. Challenges have been an artifact of popular social media since challenges started on YouTube, then Vine, and now TikTok. To say that TikTok challenges: (1) occur at a higher/worrying frequency (2) are designed to cause injury and destruction via an army of minors and (3) are "heated" up by TikTok, is a bold claim which at least anecdotally seems ridiculous.
benmmurphy 4y ago
A large number of popular apps in the iPhone App Store have the ability to receive code remotely and execute it. I think this is especially common for games that will often use a scripting language to implement the game and then will push soft updates using the scripting language. But: 1) do you think apple limits what functions these scripting languages can access? 2) do you think apple audits the scripting language to ensure it cannot execute native code via an exploit? for example a lot of Lua runtimes are 'broken' and its trivial to get native code execution.

mxkopy 4y ago

> It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. If only we had a system which taught children how to make better decisions. Some sort of teachery, perhaps. Maybe we should focus on investing in such places before laying the blame on what is basically Vine 2.0.

27fingies 4y ago

> the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it you mean like a browser?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
schmuelio 4y ago
Like basically every browser-based app, so electron apps as well as most android apps. From my understanding iPhone apps work slightly differently but I sincerely doubt that it's not common place in that space as well. I'm not saying that it's definitely completely fine, but it _is_ really common in that space.
aardvarkr 4y ago
Like an app that can update itself over the air

killingtime74 4y ago

Are there social media moderation laws? No? Then maybe start there. Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. The only result is the government has been used to eliminate a competitor to Facebook, who cannot compete in the marketplace. Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here.

tuwtuwtuwtuw 4y ago
> Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. For that to be a relevant argument you would have to amass some relevant user base. I wish you good luck.
palata 4y ago
> I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. Isn't that the whole idea here? I mean, with TokTok being a US company, obviously. > Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here. Indeed.

LordDragonfang 4y ago

>the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it So can your web browser. Unless you can actually provide a source here to clarify, you're spreading baseless speculation. Even if the CCP were literally controlling tiktok, it would be stupid of them to turn it into literal malware for a few moments of... what, exactly? And in doing so destroy the most popular social media app of its generation that literally every social app is trying to copy and catch up to. The CCP aren't cartoon villains.

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
You wouldn’t do that at scale unless you were basically going to war anyway. Scenario 1: deploy malware on highly targeted devices Scenario 2: deploy ddos logic or similar to all devices within a region Interpret this as ‘what could happen in theory’ as opposed to any TikTok specific accusation. I’m not even sure it is possible to dynamically execute code under Android or iOS.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  You can dynamically execute code on Android. Not on iOS, as far as I am aware. It's a pretty common design pattern for games, for example.
schmuelio 4y ago
I don't know if there's been new stuff about it recently, but there's a good chance this is just sourced from a single reddit post that says they decompiled the app and found "loads of dodgy security problems just trust me" I haven't found a source for this that doesn't trace back to this one reddit post.

tdeck 4y ago

> but I remember reading that security researchers found the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it, This is a pretty normal thing in Android and a number of larger apps (and many games) use it to some extent as a way to modularize the application. An app can basically download dex files or other artifacts, load them, and execute them from within the app's process. While it's arguably not a good feature for the platform to have, this isn't necessarily some kind of diabolical hack. The newer version of this is on-demand dynamic modules (which are hosted by Google), unfortunately I'm drawing a blank recalling what the older DIY version was called. https://developer.android.com/codelabs/on-demand-dynamic-delivery#0 https://developer.android.com/codelabs/on-demand-dynamic-del...

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
Does this permit out of band code execution, or does it require google or similar pre-cache any code to be executed? The latter is still a significant benefit over the former, as it guarantees non-targeted code deployment (at least if you trust the App Store) Edit: and revocation.
- tdeck 4y ago
  The android platform lets you download code from anuwhere and sideliad it into your app (IIRX Unity can do this for you, for example). The thing I linked to does require you to upload to Play because I can't recall if there's a name for the DIY version. Either way if the app itself is pulled any code downloaded is running within the app, so it goes away too.

warent 4y ago

You know what happens when you ban a young person from doing something? They grow resentful and sympathize with the bad thing. If you shelter a young person, they leave and may never return. Banning Tiktok would be the biggest strategic miscalculation I've ever seen. Basically every Gen Z and half of the millennials will hate the US Govt and sympathize with Tiktok, by extension sympathize with China. Before we flail around hastily trying to shove some ham-fisted laws down our young people, because the immortal warmongering bigoted cockroaches who run this country don't understand how the internet series of tubes works, we should consider very carefully how damaging this will be to our young people's loyalty to the US. If the government is unqualified to make the correct laws, they need to work with people smarter than themselves or step aside, because the consequences of this will be catastrophically worse than stupid dangerous "challenges" which exist outside of Tiktok anyway and have since long before the internet.

staticman2 4y ago
You've made an argument that I've seen a bunch of times here. It's a rhetorical argument that goes like this, the content is fairly irrelevent: "Combating [bad thing] actually helps [bad thing]. You see, [bad thing] becomes forbidden fruit when people combat it, and everyone is drawn to forbidden fruit. If you really are concerned about [bad thing] let [bad thing] be unopposed. Let [bad people] do [bad thing]. It's not an argument I find particularly convincing. A cynic might think it allows the person making it to seemingly support [bad thing] without, you know, putting their actually opinion out there that they in fact like [bad thing]. As for the specifics of your argument, within a few months to a year I would expect Millennials to not really give a crap that Tiktok is gone- they would simply move to a Tiktok clone, it would be as uninteresting as WB channel becoming the CW channel.
- warent 4y ago
  Combating [bad thing] actually helps [bad thing]. That was never said nor do I hold that stance. If you really are concerned about [bad thing] let [bad thing] be unopposed. Let [bad people] do [bad thing]. That was never said nor do I hold that stance. You must have accidentally replied to the wrong comment.

aryanmann 4y ago

I'm not sure I agree about the conspiratorial nature of challenges. Challenges have been an artifact of popular social media since challenges started on YouTube, then Vine, and now TikTok. To say that TikTok challenges: (1) occur at a higher/worrying frequency (2) are designed to cause injury and destruction via an army of minors and (3) are "heated" up by TikTok, is a bold claim which at least anecdotally seems ridiculous.

benmmurphy 4y ago

A large number of popular apps in the iPhone App Store have the ability to receive code remotely and execute it. I think this is especially common for games that will often use a scripting language to implement the game and then will push soft updates using the scripting language. But: 1) do you think apple limits what functions these scripting languages can access? 2) do you think apple audits the scripting language to ensure it cannot execute native code via an exploit? for example a lot of Lua runtimes are 'broken' and its trivial to get native code execution.