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Apple introduces Apple Pay Later
- ape4 4y agoAnother Apple "invention" that was all ready invented decades ago.
- logicalmonster 4y agoThis seems like a logical and interesting service that should drive quite a few sales for Apple as people impulse-buy status symbols they shouldn't really try to afford. My big concern with using some of these "pay later" types of services is that it seems incredibly risky to your credit score even if you do everything right and pay it off on time. If Apple or anybody else can clarify on this point, that would be great. Otherwise, I'd never touch this.
- jpollock 4y agoThey typically don't pull a credit score, or register a loan. They try to maintain a continuous auth for the next month's payment. That essentially lowers your credit card limit by the payment amount for the lifetime of the loan. If any single payment fails, they will then try and go for the remainder.
- logicalmonster 4y agoI don't think a credit pull is the biggest concern here. Couldn't using this reduce the average age of your accounts, which is a big factor in credit score calculation?
- jpollock 4y agoIt doesn't register a loan, so there's no new account to affect credit score?
- logicalmonster 4y agoYou used the word "typically" in the last post, which isn't a very precise or confidence inducing word when dealing with something important to your life.
- twblalock 4y agoThe only thing that reduces the average age of your accounts is opening new accounts or closing old ones.
- imwithstoopid 4y agoI hate this entire industry...Klarna, Affirm...now Apple BNPL sad that Apple has had to resort to "financializing" their own customer base
- justinator 4y agoI mean I had an Apple Loan for students way back in 2000 with an APR % that would have made me pay $8,000 for a 400mhz G4 had I followed their payment schedule...
- shagie 4y agoWhen I bought my Centris 650 in college, I bought it using a loan that was initially set up by Apple. I don't see anything surprising or new about this other than that Apple has an easier way of managing that loan than a book of paper that you ripped one out each month and sent it in along with a paper check.
- zitterbewegung 4y agoiPhones have been financed and or given 0% loans by nearly every carrier and they have $51 billion dollars cash on hand. Providing their own loans makes sense regardless.
- MarkSweep 4y agoOh wow, they actually are doing their own loans instead of taking the usual route and having a bank provide the financing. From the press release: > Apple Pay Later is offered by Apple Financing LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc., which is responsible for credit assessment and lending.
- AdamJacobMuller 4y agoI saw one of these while checking out on Uber Eats recently. #1, no, I don't want to spread my $50 worth of sushi out over 4 months #2, if you do need to do that, maybe you shouldn't be ordering from Uber eats? It seems extremely parasitical. I'm equally bothered that these companies are doing this and that some consumers feel the need to do this (and think this is a good idea)...
- bootloop 4y agoIf you think you need this you certainly shouldn't use it.
- soupfordummies 4y agoNeed... STUFF!
- koromak 4y agoBNPL schemes are (or at least were as of a year ago) destroying Gen Z. This one may be less destructive as it doesn't look like interest rates are a thing, but still. Don't get into the habit of spend ing money you don't have.
- erulabs 4y agoSpeculation, but the lack of interest rates is probably more destructive. The profit here comes from more usage on Apples cc system rather than some other bank taking the rake. Apple is incentivized to make “spending money you don’t have” as easy as possible - it directly benefits from it - and thus makes it even more appealing with no interest rates.
- MisterPea 4y agoIs there any data on this? Not trying to refute, just genuinely interested in impact over generations.
- drsnow 4y agoQuadPay, Affirm, Apple now, there are SO many schemes going on to entice people who can't actually afford things to buy them with credit and destroy themselves financially. It's very common and your request for data strikes me the same as if you had asked if there's data on whether the Sun shines. It's just so obvious it's mind-boggling to question it.
- lavezzi 4y agoThis is honestly disgusting predatory behaviour which seems to be rampant in Fintech right now. The majority of people they are targeting for this service shouldn't be put in the position to have this available to them.
- kart23 4y agoThis is gonna make a major dent, if not kill Affirm and all the other companies in the BNPL space. Having it integrated is just so convenient.
- thot_experiment 4y agoI'm not sure about that, grain of salt because I did no research to back this up but aren't apple users in general wealthier and therefore less likely to be the market for this sort of thing?
- keiferski 4y agoSupposedly 87% of American teenagers have an iPhone, so Apple does seem to have a wide range of customers. https://www.howtogeek.com/778355/new-study-says-87-of-us-teens-have-an-iphone/ https://www.howtogeek.com/778355/new-study-says-87-of-us-tee...
- exizt88 4y agoYeah, the commenters here are missing a HUGE disruption in the BNPL market. Klarna was already ailing — I wonder if they can survive this punch. Interesting to see how BNPL industry will respond.
- oh_sigh 4y agoWhat's the value proposition of a zero interest/no fee buy now pay later scheme? Is it just reaming folks who miss a payment? A loss leader getting more users into the Wallet ecosystem?
- pythko 4y agoI found this video to be a good explainer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JaMRpcDrQ&pp=ygUbQnV5IG5vIHBheSBsYXllciBtb2Rlcm4gbWJh https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JaMRpcDrQ&pp=ygUbQnV5IG5vIHB... It seems like many of them act like credit cards and charge the merchant a percentage, since they “drive consumption” and encourage people to buy stuff. Of course, this fee will likely be added into the price that all consumers pay, so as these get bigger, we all will be subsidizing interest free loans to people in the form of 1%-3% higher prices. Much like credit cards are today.
- pastor_bob 4y agomaking buying higher priced items easier to stomach. This is clearly targeted to people with good credit.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago> This is clearly targeted to people with good credit. The commercials for Apple Pay have me thinking the exact opposite. * People with good credit don't need to manage their monthly credit payment. They simply pay it all off. * People with good credit also don't really need to apply for an emergency credit card (unless they happen to forget their wallet). My impression is many of these products are akin to loan sharks. They loose/break even on "good" borrowers, but make loads on people who are "so close" to being able to fully repay.
- scrollaway 4y agoIt makes products more “affordable” (emphasis on the quotes) by spreading the payment for them over multiple salary cycles. That TV you didn’t buy because you couldn’t afford it? You told yourself you don’t need it, but now that you can mechanically pay for it, you “need” it so you’ll buy it. It also allows the sellers to increase their prices or even simply upsell without pricing out their own consumer base.
- imtig3rman 4y agoApple using its cash surplus to slowly become a bank.
- comte7092 4y agoThey’re partnering with Goldman Sachs, as they have in the past. Goldman is providing the actual banking services.
- zyang 4y ago"The fruit bank will have its due".
- scottyah 4y agoThis is Warren Buffet's forte, allocating massive amounts of capital. Since Apple is his first/only tech company, I wonder if he's playing a part in this.
- shagie 4y agoThis is a traditional path for many large companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Credit_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Credit_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discover_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discover_Card
- bakugo 4y agoI will never understand this obsession Americans have with debt.
- imwithstoopid 4y agohttps://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/HH_LS@GDD/CAN/GBR/USA/DEU/ITA/FRA/JPN/VNM https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/HH_LS@GDD/CAN/GBR/US... USA is bad but not the worst, this is a global plague
- armatav 4y agoFunny how more debt is green in this IMF chart.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- scottyah 4y agoA dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. Pair that with American Optimism and trusting the Fed, debt just makes sense. It's basically temporal arbitrage.
- rootusrootus 4y agoI still don't understand this obsession everyone else has with finding reasons to criticize Americans. Especially when it's frequently based on ignorance. The other reply to your comment is pretty instructive. There appears to be a positive correlation between how wealthy a country is and how high the household debt load is.
- jahewson 4y agoChina is almost as bad and Norway and Sweden are worse. Basically, if you have lots of money, you have access to lots of credit.
- umeshunni 4y ago> Apple Pay users can split purchases into four payments with zero interest and no fees What's the business model for all these BNPL companies if they have zero fees and zero APR? Are they counting on some % of users requiring extensions? Are they getting a % of transaction value as fees?
- pb7 4y agoIncreasing sales by reducing the obstacle of not having all of the money now.
- jstanley 4y ago> Are they getting a % of transaction value as fees? Yes, this. And it's worth it for the merchant because they make more sales. patio11 has a good article about it: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- okdood64 4y agoAffirm charges merchants a fee for sales.
- jankassens 4y agoI understand this is instead of the 2% cash back that Apple Card pays on full payments. I assume the merchant fees are the same either way.
- rootusrootus 4y ago> I understand this is instead of the 2% cash back that Apple Card pays on full payments. That would reduce the appeal a little. And that's different than their own-store policy on their card -- if you buy from Apple with an Apple Card on the installment plan, you get the 0% for 12 months or whatever, and you get the 3% cash back too. Thanks for the 2% comment, by the way. Made me go look, since I only recall it being 1% (for most things). Turns out it's 2% whenever I use my Apple Watch to do the transaction. Works for me!
- WC3w6pXxgGd 4y ago[dead]
- kruuuder 4y agoFeels like Apple is more and more seduced/mesmerized by the opportunity to provide random consumer services that promise large revenues. Why add yet another new product to your portfolio when you're still struggling so much with software quality?
- azemetre 4y agoBecause companies don't get punished for poor software quality, if they did Oracle would cease to exist.
- geodel 4y agoI'd say Slack, but it seems very popular with cool crowd.
- kimbernator 4y agoIt's got issues but when the other big option is Teams, there's not a lot of room for complaining
- rykuno 4y agoWhy are people upset about this? Huge win for the _responsible_ consumer. If something is 0% interest, its free money.
- rootusrootus 4y agoMy guess - people think it is fooling unsophisticated customers into making poor financial choices and buying things they should know they can't afford. But I'm with you, I don't see it as a big deal. I routinely take advantage of the 'no interest installment plan' for my Apple toy purchases on my Apple card. Why wouldn't I want to hold off on giving them my money for as long as possible, especially in an inflationary environment?
- BenSahar 4y agoEven outside the current inflationary period, I like using no-interest financing to give myself the option of paying for something over time. I don’t typically finance anything I can’t afford to buy outright. I just like to feel like I have extra breathing room in the case of some emergency.
- not_your_vase 4y agoResponsible people have already a lot of easy choices for short term free money. Banks almost literally throw credit cards at people, with 45-60 days without any charge (and even with cashback) - assuming that you can afford it. BNPL usually don't target these people.
- kimbernator 4y agoMy credit card is 0% interest if I pay it off, and I get all sorts of benefits from it. Why would a responsible consumer use this over a credit card?
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoCredit cards already let you pay for stuff up to 60 days later with 0% interest. This new service is shorter term than that.
- 4y ago
- acd 4y agoWhat are the financial incentives for Aplle to providing this service for free? US interest rates currently being close to 5 percent.
- SkyPuncher 4y agoLikely a percentage of the transaction. In this case, a part of a larger transaction that people can now "afford".
- brundolf 4y agoWith "zero interest and no fees", what happens in these products if somebody falls behind, or even just decides not to pay?
- karaterobot 4y agoGood question! I don't see anything about it, other than that it'll damage your credit history. To me this seems like a recipe for trouble, I'll stay away from it. There's also a part of my brain that jumps to: "if you missed a payment, would they just lock you out of your laptop by some remote command?", though there is no indication of this, and it seems unlikely (as of now).
- rootusrootus 4y agoSame thing that happens when you refuse to pay your credit card bill, I assume. Annoying bill collectors, maybe a court judgement, and for sure a dramatic cut in your credit score.
- Ocerge 4y agoMy laptop died recently, and I went with an M2 MBP. I went in expecting to pay it in full, but with no interest/fees, why wouldn't I choose this? It beats inflation, even if only minimally. Seems predatory towards people who are buying stuff they can't afford, otherwise I don't see how they make money (minus the overpriced laptop I just bought, I guess).
- __derek__ 4y agoIf you're in the US and have good credit, you can do better by opening a credit card with a 0% APR period for 12+ months in addition to a sign-up bonus (e.g., Chase Freedom Unlimited, Amex Blue Business Plus), although that takes a little more effort.
- Rimintil 4y ago> Chase Freedom Unlimited > After the intro period, a variable APR of 19.49%–28.24% I suppose it isn't an issue if you pay your card off every month, but that's a high APR.
- __derek__ 4y agoYou don't need to pay it off every month during the intro APR period: pay the minimum for the first N statements, then pay the full balance, and you'll pay $0 in interest or fees.
- SoftTalker 4y agoJust don't forget, because if you're late paying off the balance they will usually charge interest retroactive to the opening date of the account (not sure that is the case in this specific example).
- davchana 4y agoPayPal Credit (a specific credit line) does that. Discover, Wells Fargo, Chase, Capital one, all wanted to start interest from the date intro apr ended.
- pastor_bob 4y ago> Users will be asked to link a debit card from Wallet as their loan repayment method; to help prevent users from taking on more debt to pay back loans, credit cards will not be accepted. So in addition to the soft pull requirement, it's clear this is almost exclusively targeted at people with good finances. Not being able to use a credit card is a huger bummer though. Buying something like a macbook pro is a decent way to meet the minimum on a credit card with a signup bonus if you're not a high rolling spender normally.
- WirelessGigabit 4y agoThe problem is that you cannot pay debt with a credit card. Same way like you cannot pay your mortgage with a credit card.
- kitsunesoba 4y agoI haven't traditionally made use of services like this, but am I correct in that one might be able to make small gains with them, much as is possible with credit cards? For example if there's a large purchase one needed to make and had the cash on hand for, wouldn't it be smarter to let most of that cash accrue some interest in one of the many 4%+ interest savings accounts now available while making payments on the 0% interest BNPL?
- ericpauley 4y agoIn theory yes, but this is way less beneficial than just using a credit card. The average maturity date on Apple (and others) BNPL is 3 weeks. Credit cards have a minimum payment deadline of 3 weeks from the statement without accruing interest, and on average you'll get another 2 weeks on top of that depending on when in the cycle you made the purchase. So you're getting at least the same average time to accrue interest, plus you're getting credit card rewards of 1-5%.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoNo, you are better off with a simple credit card that gives 2% cash back. This is for people who cannot get approved for a credit card.
- pram 4y agoI’ve used the existing payment thing to buy a MacBook Pro on my Apple Card back in 2021. I mean at 0% interest seems like it’s all in your favor if you’re not spending like a dumbass.
- cal85 4y agoI am surprised to see Apple getting into the "buy now, pay later" game, as it's always seemed like a murky industry that works by exploiting poor people who aren't very good with money, and not something I'd expect Apple to want to be associated with. Can anyone steelman it for me? Is there a way of looking at this industry/practice other than "exploitative and predatory"?
- tantalor 4y agoFrom the press release: > [users want] flexible payment options Being able to spread some large purchase over multiple pay periods seems like a obvious use case.
- kzrdude 4y agoCredit cards are commonplace, aren't they? They offer buy now, pay later any consumer product already. But sure, it's exploitative, they want a piece of that already existing cake.
- jonfw 4y agoWhen businesses buy now and pay later, it’s smart business. When consumers do it, they’re being taken advantage of?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- MagicMoonlight 4y agoA credit card lets me delay payment for a month otherwise it’s 30% interest. These schemes let me delay for multiple months for free otherwise it’s 8% interest. It’s 1000% better
- n8cpdx 4y agoI feel like Apple has lost their way with the focus on services. If they are going to focus on services, they should make them best in class. I expect best in class software, but Apple Music still doesn’t have anything like Spotify Connect and it is still incredibly slow and unreliable software (for what it is). I don’t understand how tarnishing the premium brand with BNPL is worth it long term. And I especially don’t understand how all of their 0% interest offers will make sense in a world of 5+% interest rates.
- pathartl 4y agoThey've been taking the shotgun approach for a while. Their product isn't any individual component, it's the platform as a whole. Why people want a company that sells: - Phones - Computers - Tablets - Headphones - AR headsets - Cars - Watches - Streaming boxes - Speakers - Email - Video streaming subscriptions - News aggregation - Fitness routine subscriptions - Music streaming subscriptions - Video game subscriptions - eBooks - Apps - Cloud storage - Credit cards - BPNL is completely beyond me. Yes there's stuff in there they haven't announced. Yes there are a lot of accessories and services not listed. I'm probably a Microsoft shill at this point, but I am a .NET dev running Windows and I have a Microsoft 365 family subscription and bought an Xbox. All of my hardware is from other manufacturers. My finances are not tied to MS. I can't think of another company that has gotten the amount of blind trust that Apple has.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cal85 4y agoIs Spotify Connect distinct from Spotify?
- dcchambers 4y agoOne of the most valuable life lessons my parents ever taught me was "If you can't afford it now, you can't afford it at all." YES, there is a time and place for financing (especially when interest rates were near zero and you have good impulse control) but the entire "buy now pay later" industry just reeks of preying on people that aren't as financially literate or have little impulse control, and I won't touch the companies with a ten foot pole. Honestly a bit disappointing to see this from Apple.
- paxys 4y agoExactly. Taking a 15-30 year loan to buy a house makes sense. Using Affirm or Klarna or Apple Pay Later to buy groceries or a new laptop does not.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- agentdrtran 4y agoIf your laptop breaks and you need a new one you are probably better off doing BNPL if you can instead of buying a cheap, crappy one now.
- raincole 4y agoWell it's actually boiled down to if you make money with your laptop. I guess most people on HN are programmers so of course they do. But the question is not good laptop vs crappy laptop, it's consumption vs investment.
- Jcowell 4y agoWhat do you’re a student in uni? Averagely, Your laptop won’t make any money until you graduate , get a job , and pay off your loans.
- Aaronstotle 4y agoI initially purchased my new iphone 12 in monthly installments, yes I could have paid for it outright, but I didn't see the point in paying ~1k upfront.
- pastor_bob 4y agoApple card already allows you to pay in monthly installments with no interest and gives you back 3%: https://www.apple.com/apple-card/monthly-installments/ https://www.apple.com/apple-card/monthly-installments/
- hot_gril 4y agoFor people who qualify
- gumby 4y agoFeels to me that something like this cheapens Apple's brand. I don't mean to imply that they had an expensive brand and this changes the demographic (I hate businesses like that), I mean their brand, as far as I can tell, is "high quality, thought through, and works well".* This feels like they are exploiting their existing customer base. * Pls don't argue if you disagree on the actual quality or whatever. This is about how it looks to me that they position themselves. Feel free to argue about how they might be positioning themselves :-)
- keiferski 4y agoI agree completely. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really cannot imagine Apple doing this under Steve Jobs' management. He would have rejected it simply for seeming tacky and reminiscent of products in low quality industries.
- DavidPeiffer 4y agoI was thinking the same thing. My understanding was prior to iPhone, phones were purchased outright, typically costing a couple hundred dollars, and there wasn't such a thing as paying off the phone as part of your monthly cell phone bill. I have always purchased my phones outright, but am curious if there are fees, interest, or a higher total cost of payments via financing (fees and interest on missed payments). That's the only justification I could use to say "maybe Steve would be good with it".
- babypuncher 4y ago> I was thinking the same thing. My understanding was prior to iPhone, phones were purchased outright, typically costing a couple hundred dollars, and there wasn't such a thing as paying off the phone as part of your monthly cell phone bill. This was absolutely a thing before the iPhone. Many carriers offered Blackberries, Palm Treos, and even higher end dumbphones and featurephones at discounts when you signed a service contract.
- gumby 4y agoThe original Mac, in 1984, was offered with a financing package because it was so expensive. And yes, that was when Steve Jobs worked for apple.
- keiferski 4y agoThis business practice seems to have become popular lately. It really gives me a bad feeling, probably because the idea of getting your customers into debt (to your own company) in order to buy your products just seems wrong at a fundamental level. I don't want to live in a world where everything is either rented or paid for with a loan. I can obviously understand why it makes sense from a strictly money point of view, but what is the business strategy against this? All I can think of is pushing a brand message that is explicitly anti-debt and builds its reputation on treating its community of customers well.
- carlosjobim 4y agoMost people are extremely irresponsible with their money, which means that they don't have much disposable cash. So you will lose sales if you can't offer financing to them. No individual will want to have more than 1 Iphone, so once you've sold to those who can afford it or have the discipline to save up for it, you'll have to find a way to sell to those who can't afford and don't have the discipline. Prepare for all consumer goods in America and Europe to be offered on Buy-Now-Pay-Later plans as standard within 3 years.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoAhh, more "innovation" from the tech industry. So much BS that is easily a net negative to society. Saturday Night Live had it spot on years ago: https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44 https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44
- judge2020 4y agoIs there some sort of insurmountable tech debt over at Apple that requires these slow rollouts and long development cycles? They announced Pay later at WWDC 2022, and it's just now releasing, and the Savings account was announced in October and would be available "in the coming months", but is only just now (likely) coming out - and given Pay Later is still limited release, I imagine the savings account feature will be as well.
- CharlieDigital 4y agoIt probably has less to do with tech and more to do with regulatory, legal, support structure, and process design.
- gnicholas 4y agoI've never used a BNPL service, partly because I didn't know if it would complicate the process of returns. Does anyone know if there are complications, for example, if you buy two items and return one of them? Does the merchant give you cash that you then end up using to pay off the full BNPL amount? Or does the refund get routed the other way, to the BNPL service, and then eventually to you? For users of a reward card, this alternative probably isn't that useful. I'd miss out on 2% cash back, and the zero-interest period is only 6 weeks, which is just a couple weeks longer than the zero-interest period on a credit card (which bills you once a month, effectively giving you 0-4 weeks of zero-interest). I can see how it could be good for younger folks who need to build up credit and can use this to do so responsibly.
- roody15 4y agoYuck my two cents. Apples jump into financial services and pay as you go services model has really rubbed me the wrong way. If i get another settings alert that I need to setup apple wallet, sign into icloud or now perhaps a notice that I can “pay later” …… geez I already purchased you laptop … leave me alone and just work.
- ketaminisiert 4y agoI don't understand what an advantage there is if you finance a purchase but have to pay off the installments every 2 weeks. I doubt that there are so many people getting paid bi-monthly.
- kevincox 4y ago> with no impact to their credit[4] > 4. Upon purchase, a user’s Apple Pay Later loan and payment history may be reported to credit bureaus and impact their credit. What? Doesn't that footnote directly contradict the text that references it?
- hammock 4y ago“Users can apply for a loan within Wallet with no impact to their credit.” Typically what people worry about are the cost of a hard pull when applying for credit. Apple is saying they will not do a hard pull
- lotsofpulp 4y agoPeople should worry about having small short term loans on their credit report, because it could result in other lenders assessing them as a higher risk and therefore a higher interest rate. For example, you use Apple BNPL, and then in a couple years you go to buy a house, and they see that you use a BNPL service, and so their underwriting classes you as a higher risk and you could end up paying 100bps more on a mortgage. But the wording on Apple's website is fine since the whole claim is technically true: >Users can apply for a loan within Wallet with no impact to their credit.
- hammock 4y agoYeah I get what you are saying. I bought a cup of coffee from Starbucks and they told me it was hot but they didn't tell me the caffeine could make me restless and dehydrated. Are they bad? Should I sue them?
- suresk 4y agoMy favorite part of all these "buy now pay later" services is going to buy some charging cables, a few bags of flour, or other small random stuff and being offered to split a $19 purchase into 4 equal payments.
- bradgessler 4y agoSomething to think about: if for whatever reason you can’t pay Apple, they will disable your iCloud account. https://dcurt.is/apple-card-can-disable-your-icloud-account https://dcurt.is/apple-card-can-disable-your-icloud-account I refuse to get an Apple Card until they firewall the two and make them independent of each other.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoDoes it mean your i-devices will stop working as well? At least the emails I assume, maybe imessages... If google shots down your account, you are out of docs, youtube, gmail... This can literally kill your career. Not to mentions all the "sign up with google/apple" you used.
- bradgessler 4y agoI don’t think so, but it’s trending more in that direction as Apple spins up more services.
- ezfe 4y agoThe linked post doesn't actually say "If you don't pay your credit card bill we disable your iTunes/iCloud" What it actually says is "If you don't pay your credit card bill, we decline new transactions since you're at your credit limit. If your iCloud uses your Apple Card and that transaction is declined, then your iCloud may be disabled."
- toyg 4y agoApple apologists should probably work on replacing their "bUt GoOgLe!" routines, since people have largely moved on from the Google ecosystem as a whole - and in some cases, like this one, Google is not even present in the same market (credit cards).
- JumpCrisscross 4y agoFrom the linked article [1]: "...my bank account number changed in January, causing Apple Card autopay to fail. Then the Apple Store made a charge on the card. Less than fifteen days after that, my App Store, iCloud, Apple Music, and Apple ID accounts had all been disabled by Apple Card." Wouldn't the same thing have happened if he didn't have an Apple Card, but instead had his credit card decline not only on their Apple subscriptions, but also the MacBook they traded in? [1] https://dcurt.is/apple-card-can-disable-your-icloud-account https://dcurt.is/apple-card-can-disable-your-icloud-account
- wackget 4y agoThis is just what the world needs during a cost of living crisis.
- elif 4y agoNothing says "consumers financial interests" like selling them expensive electronics and clothing they can't afford..
- neets 4y agoAt what point does apple become a state in and of its own right?
- hulitu 4y agoWow. I can finaly afford an iPhone 14 Pro. /s Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz. My friends all drive Porsches, i must make amends...
- pphysch 4y agoHow easy do these deferred payment systems make it to manage the cognitive load of such volatile "long-term" payments? Do people just set up autopay? Having a set of monthly rent/utility costs is fine, cause they aren't particularly volatile. Credit card microloans are also fine because they are all managed under 1 balance.
- squeaky-clean 4y agoI can't find information on how Apple will specifically implement it, but Sweetwater has a similar thing (they're a music gear shop) and it's auto-billed. You're essentially signing up for a 3 or 6 month subscription service where the monthly bill is 1/3 or 1/6 of the total cost of goods.
- annexrichmond 4y ago> Apple Pay Later allows users to split purchases into four payments, spread over six weeks So you basically have to start paying early, every 1.5 weeks. This seems worse than credit cards where you don't have to pay it up to like 60 days later. It also seems strictly worse for users than other BNPL's like Affirm where many purchases can be paid over the coarse of several months or years.
- dbbk 4y agoWow 6 weeks is not good. Monzo Flex is 3 months interest free. PayPal Credit is 4 months interest free.
- latchkey 4y agoResponsible lending is providing collateral and then taking out a loan against that collateral. Don't spend what you don't have. This is not that.
- armchairhacker 4y agoThey should introduce "Apple Pay Never" and make it so I can just buy stuff without paying for it at all.
- sircastor 4y agoWell, you wouldn't really be buying stuff at that point...
- kernal 4y agoAnd just like that all of the other pay later services just took a massive haircut.
- bobleeswagger 4y agoKind of surprised it took Apple this long to jump on the defer everything train.
- AVTizzle 4y agoIf you're short USD, I guess this makes all the sense in the world.
- lumb63 4y agoIt does not speak much confidence about the economy for Apple to be making their own “pay later” mechanism.
- MagicMoonlight 4y agoGod I wish the full Apple pay features were available outside the US
- w10-1 4y agoInteresting given that JP Morgan lost $1B last year on the Apple card due to failing to correctly model the creditworthiness of customers. Also surprising that the 3% transaction fee on cards has held up for decades; one would expect that competition would bring it down. Instead, it's created an opportunity for all sorts of businesses. What I like most about this is that the Apple UI makes it dead-simple to see exactly what you spent and what you owe. To my mind, this is the huge benefit of Apple Pay services: instead of mindlessly throwing the card into any slot and getting a shock at the end of the month, you see your status at any time, including what you just bought. I believe this has huge benefits for people living hectic lives to manage their finances. Apple's ability to win in personal financial services depends on their ability to reduce the errors, friction, and confusion that lead to support calls and missed payments. Unlike banks and cards that depend on a plethora of dark fees that confuse consumers, Apple's gambit is to smooth it out, particularly for the unsophisticated. If Apple can set the standard for the industry, I'm all for it. (Yes, I'm lookin' at you, GE Capital.) Are services a distraction for Apple? Goodness, Apple is the economic size and complexity of a small country. Rather than dumping money into buying unrelated companies or X-moonshots that only puff egos, Apple management seems focused on incrementally extending the Apple way where it makes sense: to bring goodness to TV and credit cards and underserved markets, to tax their supply chains with best practices, etc. I wouldn't do it any differently.
- adept_js 4y ago[dead]