15 ms·

I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

204 points by janvdberg 4y ago

noduerme 4y ago
pfft. The original discussion was fun like Christmas even though I hate this topic
erk__ 4y ago
For some reason auto scroll (middle mouse scroll) just breaks on this site which is rather annoying, it just seems to always want to scroll horizontally. Does anyone have an idea why this happens? Edit: After having a look it seems to be because of the use of `overflow: auto` which seems to default to `overflow: scroll` on Firefox.
- mnw21cam 4y ago
  Must be some Javascript you're allowing the page to run, because it works fine for me.
  - erk__ 4y ago
    I checked with Javascript disabled and it did not make any difference, so I think it is just Firefox being a big strange with the overflow parameter.
    - mnw21cam 4y ago
      That's weird. For reference, I'm on Chromium.
jaclaz 4y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34686094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34686094
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tunnuz 4y ago
I feel your pain. I also had to give up my 2017 iPhone SE, too bad. The good thing is that I managed to change the battery myself at least 3 or 4 times, effectively extending its lease. I have since then picked up an iPhone 12 mini, which is only slightly larger and I love it.
- Jaxan 4y ago
  What’s wrong with the old SE? I still use mine daily. (Indeed I had to replace the battery too.)
  - vanilla_nut 4y ago
    I held onto my 2016 SE until last month, through 3 battery changes as well. It's no longer receiving updates to the latest iOS, and only gets limited security update backports. Sadly, it won't be long before certain crappy-but-necessary-apps like banking and 2FA auth insist on you installing an update that doesn't exist on iOS 15. Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions, and if you report that a button or something renders off screen, app devs dismiss your device as "legacy". I finally got fed up jumping through hoops to make Safari bearable. I ultimately ended up upgrading to an Xperia XZ1 Compact running Lineage 20. It's the last small android phone with a headphone jack andna flagship processor. Runs beautifully and it's actually a bit smaller than the iPhone 12/13 Minis.
    - Jaxan 4y ago
      > Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions Yes that is actually an issue. Websites also seem to think people with small screens don't exist. I don't recognise the other problems. But you might be right that banking apps at some point will stop working.
      - ajmurmann 4y ago
        A related problem: I started to notice an increasing number of websites or apps where there is some interactive element at the bottom that keeps getting hidden by navigation unless I actively keep dragging up. The Search bar here on HN is an example of this. It didn't happen till a year or so ago. Happens on my 14Pro and when on my wife's 14 Plus. Does anyone know what's up with that?
traverseda 4y ago
I'd like to see "right to downgrade" put in to law, if I buy a product I should have the option to have it run older firmware, or play an older version of a game I bought.
- Aachen 4y ago
  I was recently surprised to learn the Google app repository browser doesn't let you do that. If you use apps that are also on f-droid, it might be better to install from there to avoid being locked into a new version that you don't like. Or make backups so you have the old apk and can restore the data directory as well (iirc it doesn't let you keep that upon downgrading). For system images, it's a bit harder. I don't really have a good solution that would downgrade the OS without also restoring an old app state.
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  I don't think anyone is stopping you from using an older version of a game or older firmware, given you can obtain them (legally) and you're ok with the limitations this might impose. For example, if you're not on the latest version of a multiplayer game, you might not be allowed to play. On older firmwares you might not get full access to the application store. Etc. The point is, you don't need a law, but it might not be easy to get an older version running.
  - favsq 4y ago
    Most phones don't allow you to downgrade your version of the OS. Definitely iPhone doesn't.
    - brk 4y ago
      Hell, tons of software-driven things don't allow you to downgrade, it's not just phones. And often for good reason, a software upgrade on a modern "thing" often contains firmware or patches for various chipsets in the device, not just some OS or app-level features and fixes. Orchestrating a downgrade, and ensuring it doesn't accidentally brick something, would be a major testing headache across the matrix of all potential FROM and TO versions of software that could be involved. All so that some super edge case user can be accommodated.
terhechte 4y ago
If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it is also that this support takes a lot of time while there's a tiny fraction of people that, like the author, use an old phone. I've worked on apps with +1Mio users, and we did have users who were on very old devices using apps which were severely outdated. Those were maybe 1000-2000 of the one million. Adding a constant additional workload of up to 30% (you also have to run CI and everything on older devices) for 1000-2000 users is just not feasible. If you want to continue to use older hardware, just accept that you also have to use older software. I also don't expect to be able to run VSCode on a 1996 Pentium 60. I'd run Emacs instead, or Vim, or whatever else was en vogue in 1996
- LtWorf 4y ago
  > If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. Here in Sweden taxi and public transport apps need to be kept up to date or they stop working.
  - wruza 4y ago
    This. You can live without basic apps or updates. Even without twitter, in non-pathological cases. But services like taxi, banking, e-stores, delivery apps just stop working due to API changes on their side, together with OS requirements. And there may be no useful alternative (e.g. a website doesn’t cut it).
- dncornholio 4y ago
  Hard agree. I was happy running old iOS. Until my banking app required me to upgrade my phone. If it wasn't for this, I'd still be running with my iPhone 7. I also used my Samsung S2 way beyond reasonable terms, think maybe 6 years I have used that one and it was still perfectly usable when I switched to iPhone. It's my festival phone now.
Aachen 4y ago
> Feel free to skip this aside, unless you’re stingy like me. [...] If I’d buy a new phone today, I’d consider these options: It goes on to list only Apple devices. That's a bit dubious when being self-proclaimed stingy. One might recommend an off-brand device for a fifth of the price that will last half as long, or a competing brand for half the price that lasts just as long. Perhaps longer if you're interested in doing the upgrades yourself, something which isn't possible on a device that you don't actually get access to from the manufacturer.
- javchz 4y ago
  Sadly vendor lock it's a hard pill to swallow by design, making the switch harder. Most people already have a lot of apps purchased, exclusive messaging apps, or workflows that are too embedded into a platform.
- returningfory2 4y ago
  Also they don’t list the 2022 iPhone SE with the lowest storage space (64GB) in that table. they’re “stingy”, but not stingy enough to consider the entry level model? Overall I find this article incoherent.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    With how much storage everything takes up nowadays, I wouldn't buy a phone with 64GB either. My current phone is 64GB, and it feels like I'm always teetering the line of being full. I don't even take pictures.
titzer 4y ago
Welcome to the sum of all the local incentives. There are precious few who will serve a market for little or no profit, leaving most actors chasing the next sale/upgrade/market and rounding off the long tail of consumers who have little or no revenue potential. Face it, you are essentially worthless to the entire chain, except advertisers, so you'll be getting...uh bupkiss.
arbuge 4y ago
> Now you may think that it’s slow as mud in a pond. But, contrary to my experience with previous models, the iPhone SE actually got faster with iOS updates! ... > Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. ... > Some apps get slow and unresponsive Resetting my phone helped, but then within a week or two, the same apps are slow again. Rather contradictory article.
- tiagod 4y ago
  I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. Apps could get slower with their own updates (more bloat, less efficiency due to testing on newer devices) while the OS itself gets more efficient.
- reportgunner 4y ago
  How do you even tell that some apps got faster. Apple probably just put in faster animations and the user thinks the app is fast because things move quicker while they wait for the app do to something.
Jemm 4y ago
Trust me. Developers don't like having to update and rebundle their apps every year.
- tonetheman 4y ago
  [dead]
favsq 4y ago
>Because consider how much time you spend trying to not harm the environment in your free time: shopping for sustainable products, bringing your reusable cup, recycling. That's saying that people should share your views on politics, which is not rational.
- hdhrufjdi 4y ago
  Destroying what we live of is not rational
issafram 4y ago
I did not expect for him to end up blaming app developers
- contravariant 4y ago
  Especially when android seems to be demonstrably better at keeping apps working on old OS's.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
binarymax 4y ago
I have an iPhone 6s. I’m in the same boat. Yesterday the capital one app warned me to update as my iOS version is no longer supported. Well, I can’t. I really don’t want to get a new phone. I’m considering just going with a feature phone to cut down on screen time…but I’ll need something that supports Authenticator or MFA one time code gen. I’m in the denial phase of the 6 stages of grief with this thing.
Waterluvian 4y ago
I don’t understand how you can say your phone has been getting faster and then list every definition of slowness for why you need a new phone.
PaywallBuster 4y ago
buy 2nd hand
magic_hamster 4y ago
This might be a good opportunity to mention oldversion.com. It helped me out of a jam a couple of times. And I haven't verified it, but it seems to me like oldversion was around way before everything was being uploaded to archive.org. If you're into vintage software or older versions of current programs, check it out.
andrekandre 4y ago
> Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. I think it’s because today’s apps require more RAM than their older versions. is it that? i seem to remember something about flash chips wearing down over time and get less and less performance... could it be that instead?
- mnw21cam 4y ago
  The flash chips in the SSD in my actual computer don't seem to have done this, and they're older and have had higher write traffic. If this is a thing, does this just indicate the phone manufacturers are saving a few pence on each unit at our expense?
  - nehal3m 4y ago
    >If this is a thing, does this just indicate the phone manufacturers are saving a few pence on each unit at our expense? Would this surprise you? If, before I bought a phone, I would have some insight into how long the storage chips will last that would definitely factor into my purchasing decision. This is not something reviews cover, or are even able to cover. Hope LTT Labs sets something up here.
    - mnw21cam 4y ago
      Yeah, this is definitely something I would factor into my purchasing decisions. My phone is showing trouble after just 3.5 years of use, which is unacceptable in my view. It isn't even as if I have used it heavily.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Apple is making you buy a new iphone. They decided not to support the old API or to create adapters so that the ecosystem can live on decades. Meanwhile, you can sill run apps from 20 years ago on Windows.
- Hypergraphe 4y ago
  Can't agree more ! The levels of API backward compatibility of the Windows API is really impressive and should be taken as an example for everyone. Some Opensource projects like OpenSSL do have the same philosophy. This is harder for the developpers to maintain old APIs but it does develop a sense of trust on the products.
mnw21cam 4y ago
On a similar note, I have a Motorola G8+, Android 10. It has 4GB of RAM, plenty of free space in storage, and the CPU isn't actually that bad still. The battery is in good condition. A brand new phone doesn't necessarily have any better stats. For some reason, it is slow. As in, it will still usually run apps at full speed, the framerate in a flight sim is just as high as before etc, but then it will just freeze up for seconds at a time, or suddenly do something really slowly for a while. Sometimes it will fail to respond to the power button short-press to turn the screen on, but if I try again a minute later it will be fine. I have experienced this with multiple Androids over time. My previous phone got so bad that it sometimes wouldn't actually respond quickly enough to be able to answer a phone call, which is when I got the new one. What causes this? Is there some build-up of junk lying around in the system that I could press a magic button and clear out, without having to reinstall all my stuff from scratch? I could buy a new phone. But given a new one wouldn't have much more resources than my current one, it very much feels like the wrong workaround for a problem that shouldn't exist.
- timvisee 4y ago
  I still use my OnePlus 5 which is now (almost) 5 years old! It has 8GB of memory with Android 13 and a custom ROM. It's still faster than some phones that are released today. I agree though that some apps are extremely resource intensive for the sometimes seemingly things they have to do.
  - V1ndaar 4y ago
    Funny. I'm still on a OnePlus 6 and I see similar bizarre freezes as OP when I open the photo gallery. Or just when starting the camera often I have to wait 15-20s before the phone realizes that I have pictures. Sometimes when swiping through the gallery it will become excessively slow and stop reacting to panning / swiping / zooming. It's what is driving me close to grabbing a new phone at some point this year.
    - timvisee 4y ago
      Not fun! Using a custom ROM? I'm running LineageOS with minimal Google Apps.
sideshowb 4y ago
My friend recently was forced to upgrade his phone by ... our local rail company Transport for Wales. Their smart ticketing app dropped support for his old handset with their latest update. The app is essential if you want a flexible season ticket (a substantial saving over the regular fares) so upgrading was an obvious choice for him ... so much for sustainable transport though :(
- seabass-labrax 4y ago
  Is it not still possible to print out the e-ticket (QR code ticket) in advance via the Web? That appears to be an option for all National Rail tickets sold in England at least.
  - sideshowb 4y ago
    No, it's really so app only.
janandonly 4y ago
This hit home hard for me: > You decided that you wanted to use some framework/feature/API and save developer time. Which is odd. Because consider how much time you spend trying to not harm the environment in your free time: shopping for sustainable products, bringing your reusable cup, recycling. And then think of the minutes you save with new programming stuff compared to the number of iPhones discarded because of that.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  Interestingly, I felt the opposite reading that. Probably in the author’s country (I’m assuming the Netherlands, given the name and the prices in EUR) this is a general sentiment, but in America where most of the apps the author is using were written the average programmer probably does not care about this as much as the author thinks they do. This is not saying this for better or worse, just acknowledging the reality of the situation.
- frodetb 4y ago
  Me too, and I was disappointed to see this comment section mostly full of people either blaming the author or explaining why their experience actually makes sense. It's like a positive feedback-loop (though I guess morally negative) between manufacturers, developers, and users, all three dragging/pushing on the other to roll down the hill of faster hardware and heavier apps, none of them really in control or able to stop, and therefore also not directly to blame. The upgrade-train to Waste City has no breaks. Still, it seems to me at least that the manufacturers are the only ones strictly happy about the situation.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  These days, everything eventually gets sacrificed at the altar of "developer comfort". Backward compatibility gets thrown under the bus so code can be "cleaned up" and to reduce the testing scope. Software performance gets thrown under the bust so we can all program in Javascript. Platform-specific features get thrown under the bus in favor of a cross-platform framework so we only have to target one API. Download sizes get thrown under the bus so we can ship containers because it's hard to get programs to work on other people's computers. Less-frequently used features get thrown under the bus because it's hard to maintain all that old code.
gambiting 4y ago
Yeah I have an iPad Mini 2(from 2014!) Which works absolutely fine - it even still receives security updates from apple. I thought it would be a great tablet for my kid to watch cartoons on, but nope, even though you can download the latest version of Netflix and Disney+ both apps just crash after 5-10 minutes of playback. And I'm guessing there's no one at either company interested in fixing this. I've restored the tablet to factory settings and the same thing still happens. So I ended up buying the cheapest Amazon Fire tablet for like £50 which is probably the slowest computing device I've ever owned but it runs all streaming services without any trouble. I'd much rather use the iPad.
- lordnacho 4y ago
  I have old tablets that are barely able to show a clock app, which is essentially the last thing they can be used for. Every single thing you try to do with it is slow as molasses.
- nottorp 4y ago
  For a while the problem with older iDevices was the rapid ram increases across generations. Which leads to random crashes or crashes after some time on older devices because the devs tested on the latest and greatest. I think the ram growth has stagnated now? I kinda stopped caring.
fooblaster 4y ago
This is what you get when you get trapped in the apple ecosystem. I'd consider getting a pixel 6a - I purchased mine for 150$ with a trade in of a pixel 2 and it will get 5 years of software support.
- popol12 4y ago
  Are you aware that 2016 was 7 years ago ? The iPhone SE had 7 years of updates.
  - fooblaster 4y ago
    Given the costs compared to a new iphone I think the support window for the pixel 6a is reasonable
ericabiz 4y ago
I run phone repair shops and the app starting up slowness is often caused by a failing battery. In fact, at our shops, on older iPhones, I can test the battery state by opening the camera app. If it takes 10-20 seconds to open, it’s usually the battery causing it. (The other cause is storage being close to full.) This won’t help the app resetting issue, which the author correctly identifies as a RAM problem (that I also encounter on my personal iPhone 13 Pro. Apple is horribly stingy with RAM even on the Pro models.) In general, if you use your phone daily, I recommend getting the battery replaced every 2-2.5 years.
- creshal 4y ago
  > Apple is horribly stingy with RAM even on the Pro models. 6 gigabytes of RAM on a phone is hardly stingy, when laptops with 8 gigabytes are still considered reasonable.
  - muyuu 4y ago
    i think by stingy she means that they are not using the best memory chips to save money, so ram modules go bad often
    - creshal 4y ago
      That's the first time I've ever heard of that, is there anything to read up on that?
      - muyuu 4y ago
        I have no idea tbh, but that's what ericabiz seemed to imply, maybe I'm wrong and she meant something else
- thefz 4y ago
  > In general, if you use your phone daily, I recommend getting the battery replaced every 2-2.5 years. Another thing that people forget to do... please restart in once in a while.
jon889 4y ago
Says it's a perfectly functioning phone and then lists how it's not because it's old and got worn out. apps requiring later versions is an issue but the % of people on old iOS versions is really quite small. It makes no sense to waste development time on implementing something for <1% of customers on iOS 14, when you could use a newer API in one line of code.
- chongli 4y ago
  It’s not just apps requiring later versions, it’s apps using more and more memory due to the use of ever-more bloated frameworks and the like. The vast majority of these apps would’ve run fine on a computer from the 1980’s running at a handful of MHz in mere kilobytes of RAM, if they were optimized. But they use the trendiest frameworks and require gigabytes of RAM and gigahertz of clock cycles to run their todo-list (or whatever it is they do).
- hpaavola 4y ago
  Apps don't support older OS versions -> Nobody uses old OS -> No point supporting old OS as nobody uses those -> Apps don't support older OS versions -> ...
bioemerl 4y ago
Apple is making you use a new phone by dropping support for it in their OS updates. The fact that this happens at all anywhere at any time at any place for any reason, and can't just install an update yourself should be unacceptable and legislated against
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Apple supports the phones for 7 years, the current proposals floating around the EU are to mandate 4 years. They also don’t break anything, the apple services all continue to work forever, it’s 3rd party devs who drop support for older api versions. Nothing makes them do this.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    I'm not talking about a mandate for operating system support, I'm talking about a mandate to allow the user to install operating systems if they want to. It's not third party devs fault that the perfectly good hardware and an old iPhone is denied the ability to operate to a version of the operating system with the latest API support. You don't see this on Windows. You see it on Android, and it shouldn't happen there either. This wasn't a thing until mobile phones became a thing, and companies to seized the opportunity to be able to force all their hardware to be obsolete.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      I seriously doubt this will make any difference to the average consumer. Every iPhone that has been dropped from api updates is so old that people have worked out how to completely bypass the security on them. You can install full Linux on most of these old iPhones. But absolutely no one has time to maintain an alternate OS for 7+ year old phones. And even if they did, no commercial apps would be ported to it. I'm all for mandating ability to flash custom firmware and OSs, but I'm under no delusion that some free labor will spring up and an alternate mobile ecosystem will flourish based on users with 7+ year old iphones. Android also has this issue but there are so many android phones that no one is really paying attention. Try using a 7+ year old Android and you'll notice many apps don't show up in the Play store. Sometimes it's because they only target the newer Android API versions, sometimes it's because your SoC doesn't have some instruction available, etc. Windows is probably the worst offender of the lot. My brand new gaming desktop is currently flagged as not supported by Windows 11. Apple does 7 years support while Microsoft does as little as 0.
ceva 4y ago
It's called Capitalism :)
- Hypergraphe 4y ago
  It's called wasting our resources !
graderjs 4y ago
Maybe one day there will be AI-optimized "emulation" apps that work on older hardware, but emulate newer hardware, making intelligent code path optimizations / branch prediction, etc with the help of AI-generated bytecode that lets you not have to upgrade your hardware, you just upgrade the emulator you use to run apps supposedly only supported on newer hardware. Also, whenever I hear "you're making me"--I instantly think of those Hollywood action/thriller movies, where in the climax, the villain often says, "You're making me do this" or something to that effect--and instantly distrust the speaker!
- andylynch 4y ago
  Well, you can already do things like this, eg emulating x86 on some microcontroller. But the problem tends to be that the emulation runs magnitudes slower than the new hardware, so it is impractical for almost every use case beside Doom ports to exotic hardware.
  - graderjs 4y ago
    Yes yes yes, that's why I included AI-optimized >>> ^^ see above! :p :) xx;p
nehal3m 4y ago
At some point you're better off switching to a dumb phone for phone calls and a tablet with a data-SIM for everything else.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  I tried doing that a couple years ago. The problem with dumb phones (or at least the problem when I researched this several years ago) is that it’s a niche market with high enough demand that all of the products are low-effort, low quality and exorbitantly priced for what you get.
  - eddieroger 4y ago
    I won't argue low effort, but I just went to my carrier's site (Verizon), and I can get a "basic" flip phone for $80 unsubsidized. The high end of the range, a ruggedized Kyocera, was $240. I don't think this is unreasonable for a range of devices that have much lower market desire than they did 15 years ago. At $80, I'd call that a disposable travel phone.
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  I found when I got an iPad (I never had a laptop at home), that I stopped using my phone much but when I do use it, I still need all the main features of a smartphone, like a decent camera, apps to manage everything (maps, public transport tickets, apps to order food/drinks etc), sadly everything is in a very app world these days. I wish there would be more effort put into making more basic smartphones, less running full blown OS and just have a few basic functions, like a decent camera, internet access, messaging and maps, but because they are mini computers they are bloated as hell.
Reason077 4y ago
C’mon, he’s still using a phone from 2016 (which was the low-end model even in 2016), and by his own admission it’s still pretty usable for most things. I think that’s a pretty good run. All the Android users I know have been through at least 3 or 4 phones in that period. And so have some of the iPhone users who obsessively upgrade every 2 years even though they don’t need to! (Typing this on an iPhone X from 2017…)
- popol12 4y ago
  It wasn't low end ! It was released with the same flagship SoC that was inside the last iPhone released (iPhone 7)
  - JoBrad 4y ago
    The SE has always been the low-end phone, regardless of its internals.
  - wruza 4y ago
    Apple doesn’t do a wide spectrum of ends, but SE is a low end, both price and hw-wise. It just doesn’t suck as much as 10%-priced devices android industry can offer, and most downgrades go to cameras, borders, etc. Which is nice, since not everyone is a selfie type.
  - eddieroger 4y ago
    It is the cheapest of the phones they offer. It is literally the low end of the range. It has the same chip, but older everything else. It's OK for something to be the low end - it has a market and a purpose. It isn't a slam against the device.
- SamBorick 4y ago
  The hardware is still working. I think it's reasonable that the software should continue to work until the hardware is physically incapable of booting. An entire industry deciding that hardware "should" only last 6 years is shameful. (Typing this on a macbook pro 2012)
zabzonk 4y ago
they are trying to make me replace my feature phone. and i hate using a phone at all!
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> 2. Some apps get reset when I’m trying to multitask This is an issue I've been having too (iphone XR), since this didn't use to be the case and the apps I use aren't significantly different from the ones I used a few years ago, it makes me think this is some kind of forced obsolescence or an OS bug. It also highlights that many apps don't implement a suspend very well.
patwolf 4y ago
It's not just phones. Yesterday I tried to dust off a MacBook Air from 2012 so that the kids could play some games. It was used regularly up until 3 years ago, but now pretty much all software is broken, and it won't let me upgrade anything. Hopefully there's a Linux distro that will work on it.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  Interesting, I still have a 2012 MBP that works great. I mostly use command line software on it, but it works just fine.
- bombolo 4y ago
  Linux is your only shot, apple removed support for i386 binaries and opengl, so 99% of games no longer works.
- neurostimulant 4y ago
  Manjaro runs great on my MBP 2012. Or you can turn your MacBook Air into a "hackintosh" and install the latest macos on it using OpenCore Legacy Patcher [1]. Just be aware that recent version of macos relies heavily on hardware acceleration (video playback, cryptography, etc) and will fallback to CPU on older unsupported hardware, which is slow and deplete your battery fast. [1] https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
- SamBorick 4y ago
  I'm currently running KDE Neon on a MBP 2012, and I've installed linux on a few apple devices from that era. The nvidia drivers can be a struggle, and wifi drivers have to be configured manually. But the performance is awesome!
Reason077 4y ago
> ”iPhones are getting more expensive” Certainly true in Europe, but remember that the Euro has declined in value significantly relative to the USD in the past few years. If you convert the € prices back into USD at the time of introduction, I bet they haven’t increased any faster than inflation.
petodo 4y ago
If you were using Android I would suggest just go for some mainstream model from Samsung (S series), Xiaomi (Mi X) or Pixel (basically any model) with pretty much guaranteed long term unofficial ROM updates even after official support cease if your problem were depreciated new app versions, but since you are voluntarily locked yourself to closed iOS, I have no suggestion other than stop updating apps and use the apps which were fine before. Btw. multitasking doesn't really work even on brand new iPhones. For the record I am running gapps free Lineage with Android 8.1 on my phone from 2018 without any issues, I can hardly find app which would not run on 5 years old Android 8.1, if something (rarely) doesn't work it's because of relying on gapps.
puika 4y ago
When it comes to phones, I tend to stick to lower-mid range ones that I know allow custom ROMs and have a certain community behind it and somewhat well supported. For instance I am running Android 12 on a 2016 ZUK Z2 shipped with 7, and if we ignore battery life and decreased performance it's still like having a new phone now. Same thing for my Redmi note 7 with Android 13. I cannot say the same for my iPad Air 2 from 2015, stuck on iOS 12 since I don't even know when, and can barely use it for anything apart from youtube and (supported) websites.
volleygman180 4y ago
Apple is to blame, honestly. Android at least releases support libraries to allow older devices to receive more patches as well as some newer platform features. This is unheard of on Apple's platforms. If Apple changes any code, then they simply push out a new version - if a framework has bugs since iOS 12 and they've fixed it, the fix will only rollout for iOS 16+ users and leave everyone else behind. Security updates are the one exception, but Apple is capable of much more. The company continues to step away from being a steward of good technology.
pcdoodle 4y ago
This makes me wonder if some people don't even get into writing software because of how ephemeral our platforms are today. "Not worth it." "This work will have to be redone every few years now." I still use 10+ year old software and hardware for getting very cool things done, and it really put things into perspective.
philipphutterer 4y ago
the whole planet upgrade their electronics at least every decade is just an obviously stupid thing and not enough people talk about it This is so true! How can we developers make this a bigger thing? Isn't there a market for this by now?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I do not understand how it is an "obviously stupid thing". Technology advances quite a bit in 10 years, or at least it did from 1990s to 2010s. Not to mention that the newer devices yield considerable utility and efficiencies that make older devices redundant.
  - pbmonster 4y ago
    > or at least it did from 1990s to 2010s. You write it yourself. Up to the 2010s. The majority of phone users use zero features - with the possible exception of the camera sensor - that where not also available at very high quality in 2013. For phones, I currently see zero reason for further hardware upgrades.
  - aequitas 4y ago
    > Technology advances quite a bit in 10 years It certainly hasn't for mundane tasks like browsing the web or playing simple games. I recently bought a 10 year old 21,5 inch iMac for my kids for around the price that a same sized, also full hd, brand new screen would cost. Only that screen doesn't come with built-in i5 CPU, SSD, Gigabit and AC networking. It replaces a 2011 Macbook Pro only because I want something stationary for them and not something they get tempted to lug around and drop on the floor. Apple doesn't allow the latest OS's to be installed (though there are ways around that[0]) but I haven't felt the need for it. So unless you need raw performance or extreme power savings because you run your device 24/7 there should be no need to get the latest and "greatest". [0] https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
- reportgunner 4y ago
  It's gonna take a few decades, there are people who are in their first decade and there are people who are not even in their first decade.
lapcat 4y ago
I was quite satisfied with my iPhone 7 (2016) and didn't experience any problems with it, unlike the article author. However, iOS 16 doesn't support iPhone 7, so I had to buy a new iPhone SE (2022), which was the cheapest model available. The 2 phones are mostly identical, and indeed it's difficult to distinguish them if set side by side.
- ericpauley 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, why did you need to upgrade for iOS 16? 15 will likely be receiving security updates for a while longer.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    I make apps for iOS, so I need to run the latest.
SCdF 4y ago
I've mentioned this on here before, but my otherwise perfectly functional Pixel 3A has been out of security-patch support for nearly a year. It's disgusting honestly, my only options are to try to find some open source project keeping patches up to date, have my most important information on an unpatched device, or throw it in the trash.
- UncleSlacky 4y ago
  LineageOS looks like your best bet: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sargo/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sargo/
  - SCdF 4y ago
    Honestly my best bet is to never buy an android again, which is what I will likely be doing. (I know the original article I'm commenting on _is about iPhones_, but their phone is from 2016, and mine is from 2019, which from the perspective of losing support in 2022 is basically twice as good)
- YellOh 4y ago
  Huh. I've been using a Pixel 2 for a long time (got it early after release), and for some reason it's never occurred to me to worry. My battery life is still awesome, so I figured I'd just use this thing until it dies. If you do switch to OSS, let me know how it goes -- I've considered switching to Replicant or PureOS for freedom/privacy reasons, but haven't had a good enough reason to put in the effort yet. Edit: looking at the release date, it looks like I've had my phone for ~5.5 years, and luckily I've had zero of the problems of the person who wrote the original article. All my apps still work as expected, and I've never noticed issues with new apps I download. I'm not saying their problems aren't real, just that they're not usiversal.
- Vrondi 4y ago
  You can put Lineage OS on it and have security patches again: https://lineageosroms.com/sargo/ https://lineageosroms.com/sargo/
muyuu 4y ago
it's because of stuff like this, and the absurd security/surveillance model, that I simply refuse to install any apps every app is an added dependency and a possible headache if you incorporate it in your workflow perhaps paradoxically, if only superficially, the only apps that make sense to install are games and simple tools with immediate replacement in your computer or web - and even that comes with caveats regarding security and privacy preservation
ericpauley 4y ago
The analysis of phone lifetimes based on software support is dubious. Apple generally supports groups of devices together that are similar hardware. Given iPhones 12-14 are virtually identical I’d expect these will all lose support around the same time. Generally, this article is apple hate on steroids!! Apple is still releasing security updates for a 7-year-old device; name a mainstream android phone that’s doing that. The author should get a refurbished 12 mini. $350 right now and will probably get 5+ years of updates.
- ovao 4y ago
  I don’t think you read the article fully. The gripe is more about what mobile app developers do with respect to long-term support for older hardware/OS versions and much less about what Apple does.
  - wccrawford 4y ago
    Apple and Google now both require that you keep your app up to date with the new SDKs, even if your app works perfectly fine on the old version. As you upgrade to fix changes for that, it gets harder and hard to maintain support for older OSes. I'm not at all surprised that most app developers don't spend the time to ensure that their app continues to work on older devices, especially those that have a tiny marketshare now. You can blame it on the developer for not supporting that, but it's in response to things that Apple and Google are doing, and I'd argue that they're really the ones at fault.
- dmix 4y ago
  Those 12-14 minis are amazing phones. My girlfriend has one and the form factor is perfect for her and it was affordable. Feels high quality in your hand, reminded me of a modern iPhone 4.
- Aromasin 4y ago
  I was trying to find an answer to your question and found a great website I thought I should share, documenting when Samsung EOL their devices. Oldest mobile device (not including smart watches) to have security updates is the Galaxy C7 from 2017. Genuine device support only extends as far back as 2019 to the Samsung S10 though. I found Apple's list also, which I'll share below. https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile https://support.apple.com/en-ie/guide/iphone/iphe3fa5df43/ios https://support.apple.com/en-ie/guide/iphone/iphe3fa5df43/io...
a-dub 4y ago
at least apple ships security updates for older devices. last i looked, they go back at least 7 years. before the pixel 6, qualcomm pixels capped out at 3 years. it should be a legal requirement to unlock bootloaders and possibly even open source the software when a company chooses to stop providing security updates for embedded computers. either that or there should be a fine for every device for every year it is unsupported in the first ten years after manufacture.
xbar 4y ago
"For no apparent reason, Safari acts like there’s no internet connection. Rebooting solves that until a week later." My iPhone 13 Pro does this all the time when I'm not on Wifi. Time to visit the Apple store and make them give me a free phone. Is it actually a phone problem? Doubtful. But they should pay. Oh yes, they will pay (by providing a replacement under their silly-expensive replacement plan).
- dmix 4y ago
  What about Chrome? Or is it general connectivity?
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
I buy a discount old non-iPhone from Target for $29. When I drop it and it's destroyed, I drop by Target and get another one. I have in my lifetime spent less than 10% of one iPhone on phones total. It runs maybe half as fast as a current phone. At 3% of the price.
- returningfory2 4y ago
  The math doesn’t check out? My iPhone SE is $430 new, so as soon as you’ve bought two of these throwaway phones you’re over 10%? Making this comment to push back on the idea that somehow iPhones are insanely expensive; the SE is not.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Just bragging. And yes they are insanely expensive. And the SE is half the phone the most expensive iPhone is. About the same phone I have. So there's then no reason at all to buy it over a $29 phone. At least not from my point of view
- nebula8804 4y ago
  I used to buy these phones. There is a value in not having to deal with some garbage build of Android in day to day usage. Just because you are fine with this compromise does not mean the majority of the Apple user base will be.
Phiwise_ 4y ago
>Buys apple phone >Shocked at cost of keeping up with normal industry progress I always think I'll never be surprised again by the sheer scale of compartmentalization of knowledge some people in this industry are capable of.
- dmix 4y ago
  If your point is that they would have experienced better software longevity with an Android device I have a bridge to sell you. The slow software issues experienced by older phones is universal across the industry. And buying cheap disposable Android phones means you’re trading off quality in hardware. My mom’s android phone went from really slow to completely unusable within 3yrs after an OS update.
- pwb25 4y ago
  the problem is the gated app stores and forced updates I use a laptop from 2016 with no problem at all really for programming for example
MagicMoonlight 4y ago
Just get the battery replaced. You wrote this entire article without trying the cheap repair service they offer that normally restores it to 100% speed. Try it then come back to us. 99% of the time its only slow because of battery throttling.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vbarrielle 4y ago
I think the blame can be put on the closed ecosystems of phones. On laptops and desktops, with the possibility to install any OS, it's more often possible to meet the requirements of up-to-date frameworks using the same hardware. My laptop is from 2010 and is still running everything I want, it's up to date and responsive. With the current hardware of phones, and even their hardware of 6 years ago, I don't see any reason why they should be changed, other than being closed platforms where one cannot control the OS.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  and app markets
- joshspankit 4y ago
  Anyone remember when hardware manufacturers and media companies were separate? I think we took a dark turn when Apple started signing the legal agreements needed to distribute copyright media to people who bought Apple hardware.
hankchinaski 4y ago
>You decided that if less than 1% of your users use a certain old device, it’s no longer relevant. Which is odd, because to many businesses, 1% of users can make the difference between profit or loss. If that 1% of customers are as stingy as you are, they are probably right on ignoring you
mrzool 4y ago
> Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. I think it’s because today’s apps require more RAM than their older versions. Also SSD wear and tear after years of use can cause a device to become sluggish.
fortran77 4y ago
Rumor mill says that the next iPhone won't have a physical "silent" switch. This will be a dealbreaker for me and I suspect many other people. Not sure what to do when my current phone becomes unusable.
helf 4y ago
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remote_phone 4y ago
Had OP tried changing the battery? It might be the better that is causing slow performance.
causality0 4y ago
I was forced to give up my beloved OnePlus 6 when AT&T started only accepting whitelisted handsets. Being able to use any GSM phone was the whole reason I moved my family from Verizon two years earlier.
livrem 4y ago
I would not mind more permanent (subsets of) standards on all platforms. The only stable environments that seem to exist are accidental, being emulators for dead platforms like Dosbox or UAE. Software for a modern, non-dead, platform is almost guaranteed to run at best for a few years before it, as they say, rots.
ajmurmann 4y ago
I wonder if the SE just was released with too little memory. I bought a iPhone SE 2020 and swapped it out a little over a year later for an iPhone 14Pro because of the app reset issue (granted I bought the phone when it already had been on the market for a while). Before that I had my iPhone 6S for over 5 years and had expected to keep the SE for much longer as well. I now also wish memory numbers were more of a focus when Apple releases a new phone. We keep hearing about storage, cameras neutral processors and yet lack of memory makes the device a pain to use shortly after release. I only now looked up memory for these devices on Wikipedia and the 2020 SE has only 2Gb of memory, just like the iPhone 6SE had! I'm honestly shocked that the SE still had the same memory as a phone 5 years earlier and also by how low the absolute numbers are.
martin_drapeau 4y ago
I used to think this way but over the years I came to realize that iPhone progress comes at a price and the benefits greatly outweigh the cost. Notably: - iPhones improve over time (Face ID was somewhat slow on 10 but is really fast on 12) - Replacing allows Apple to fund next generations If no one upgraded, progress would not be as fast. My next wish is for Siri to be faster (no latency please) and smarter. With LLMs become mainstream, I can finally see a day this may happen. I'm more that happy to upgrade my phone every 2 or 3 generations to fund improvements of Apple silicon.
joshspankit 4y ago
Something I have not seen yet: Apple has a significant part in this. To keep an app on the app store, the dev has to pay the yearly fee, and keep up to date with Apple’s requirements (which they legally agree to do through agreeing to the updated TOS). To keep up to date with Apple’s requirements they must (sometimes) make a minor edit to their code and upload the new version. To upload the new version they must use the latest version of XCode. To use the latest version of XCode they must also be running the latest version of macOS (and sometimes must update their dev device(s) to the latest version of iOS). If they use the latest version of XCode their code must compile on it. To compile their code they must (most times) use Apple’s new internal APIs and remove references to old Apple APIs. Apple treats devs like consumers. The ever-advancing wall of “progress” pushes devs forward just like it pushes users forward. No one has the choice to stay behind peacefully.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  This is all true, and the interesting thing to me is that I don't think it's intentional. That is, it seems to be the natural result of steady innovation without special effort being made to keep things stable for those who want to avoid innovation. Should they make that extra effort? Sure, arguably they should. Apple's philosophy has always been to look forward, not back, though, and things like supporting 32-bit code on 64-bit architectures require a lot of effort for little perceived gain. Then again, that effort means people can jump off of the circular treadmill, so maybe it's worth it.
  - joshspankit 4y ago
    You might be right about it not being intentional (putting aside the argument that lack of choice is itself a choice), but I would argue that putting in the effort is their responsibility as a part of the larger goal of sustainability. In this case Apple says they want their products to be completely sustainable, and yet they are choosing profit over sustainability by putting fences on either side of the circular treadmill.
    - pwinnski 4y ago
windex 4y ago
With AI enabled programming coming in etc, I expect many apps will start getting faster as code gets refactored to not use bloated thirdparty frameworks etc. Older devices, and electronic waste should reduce with the possible optimizations of apps. I maintain my devices well and have pristine devices I still use from 2010, but the apps make it run like molasses.
paletteOvO 4y ago
You are using Apple's products. That's why you have no choice.

204 points by janvdberg 4y ago

pfft. The original discussion was fun like Christmas even though I hate this topic

For some reason auto scroll (middle mouse scroll) just breaks on this site which is rather annoying, it just seems to always want to scroll horizontally. Does anyone have an idea why this happens? Edit: After having a look it seems to be because of the use of `overflow: auto` which seems to default to `overflow: scroll` on Firefox.

mnw21cam 4y ago
Must be some Javascript you're allowing the page to run, because it works fine for me.
- erk__ 4y ago
  I checked with Javascript disabled and it did not make any difference, so I think it is just Firefox being a big strange with the overflow parameter.
  - mnw21cam 4y ago
    That's weird. For reference, I'm on Chromium.

jaclaz 4y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34686094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34686094

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tunnuz 4y ago

I feel your pain. I also had to give up my 2017 iPhone SE, too bad. The good thing is that I managed to change the battery myself at least 3 or 4 times, effectively extending its lease. I have since then picked up an iPhone 12 mini, which is only slightly larger and I love it.

Jaxan 4y ago
What’s wrong with the old SE? I still use mine daily. (Indeed I had to replace the battery too.)
- vanilla_nut 4y ago
  I held onto my 2016 SE until last month, through 3 battery changes as well. It's no longer receiving updates to the latest iOS, and only gets limited security update backports. Sadly, it won't be long before certain crappy-but-necessary-apps like banking and 2FA auth insist on you installing an update that doesn't exist on iOS 15. Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions, and if you report that a button or something renders off screen, app devs dismiss your device as "legacy". I finally got fed up jumping through hoops to make Safari bearable. I ultimately ended up upgrading to an Xperia XZ1 Compact running Lineage 20. It's the last small android phone with a headphone jack andna flagship processor. Runs beautifully and it's actually a bit smaller than the iPhone 12/13 Minis.
  - Jaxan 4y ago
    > Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions Yes that is actually an issue. Websites also seem to think people with small screens don't exist. I don't recognise the other problems. But you might be right that banking apps at some point will stop working.
    - ajmurmann 4y ago
      A related problem: I started to notice an increasing number of websites or apps where there is some interactive element at the bottom that keeps getting hidden by navigation unless I actively keep dragging up. The Search bar here on HN is an example of this. It didn't happen till a year or so ago. Happens on my 14Pro and when on my wife's 14 Plus. Does anyone know what's up with that?

traverseda 4y ago

I'd like to see "right to downgrade" put in to law, if I buy a product I should have the option to have it run older firmware, or play an older version of a game I bought.

Aachen 4y ago
I was recently surprised to learn the Google app repository browser doesn't let you do that. If you use apps that are also on f-droid, it might be better to install from there to avoid being locked into a new version that you don't like. Or make backups so you have the old apk and can restore the data directory as well (iirc it doesn't let you keep that upon downgrading). For system images, it's a bit harder. I don't really have a good solution that would downgrade the OS without also restoring an old app state.
magic_hamster 4y ago
I don't think anyone is stopping you from using an older version of a game or older firmware, given you can obtain them (legally) and you're ok with the limitations this might impose. For example, if you're not on the latest version of a multiplayer game, you might not be allowed to play. On older firmwares you might not get full access to the application store. Etc. The point is, you don't need a law, but it might not be easy to get an older version running.
- favsq 4y ago
  Most phones don't allow you to downgrade your version of the OS. Definitely iPhone doesn't.
  - brk 4y ago
    Hell, tons of software-driven things don't allow you to downgrade, it's not just phones. And often for good reason, a software upgrade on a modern "thing" often contains firmware or patches for various chipsets in the device, not just some OS or app-level features and fixes. Orchestrating a downgrade, and ensuring it doesn't accidentally brick something, would be a major testing headache across the matrix of all potential FROM and TO versions of software that could be involved. All so that some super edge case user can be accommodated.

terhechte 4y ago

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it is also that this support takes a lot of time while there's a tiny fraction of people that, like the author, use an old phone. I've worked on apps with +1Mio users, and we did have users who were on very old devices using apps which were severely outdated. Those were maybe 1000-2000 of the one million. Adding a constant additional workload of up to 30% (you also have to run CI and everything on older devices) for 1000-2000 users is just not feasible. If you want to continue to use older hardware, just accept that you also have to use older software. I also don't expect to be able to run VSCode on a 1996 Pentium 60. I'd run Emacs instead, or Vim, or whatever else was en vogue in 1996

LtWorf 4y ago
> If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. Here in Sweden taxi and public transport apps need to be kept up to date or they stop working.
- wruza 4y ago
  This. You can live without basic apps or updates. Even without twitter, in non-pathological cases. But services like taxi, banking, e-stores, delivery apps just stop working due to API changes on their side, together with OS requirements. And there may be no useful alternative (e.g. a website doesn’t cut it).
dncornholio 4y ago
Hard agree. I was happy running old iOS. Until my banking app required me to upgrade my phone. If it wasn't for this, I'd still be running with my iPhone 7. I also used my Samsung S2 way beyond reasonable terms, think maybe 6 years I have used that one and it was still perfectly usable when I switched to iPhone. It's my festival phone now.

Aachen 4y ago

> Feel free to skip this aside, unless you’re stingy like me. [...] If I’d buy a new phone today, I’d consider these options: It goes on to list only Apple devices. That's a bit dubious when being self-proclaimed stingy. One might recommend an off-brand device for a fifth of the price that will last half as long, or a competing brand for half the price that lasts just as long. Perhaps longer if you're interested in doing the upgrades yourself, something which isn't possible on a device that you don't actually get access to from the manufacturer.

javchz 4y ago
Sadly vendor lock it's a hard pill to swallow by design, making the switch harder. Most people already have a lot of apps purchased, exclusive messaging apps, or workflows that are too embedded into a platform.
returningfory2 4y ago
Also they don’t list the 2022 iPhone SE with the lowest storage space (64GB) in that table. they’re “stingy”, but not stingy enough to consider the entry level model? Overall I find this article incoherent.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  With how much storage everything takes up nowadays, I wouldn't buy a phone with 64GB either. My current phone is 64GB, and it feels like I'm always teetering the line of being full. I don't even take pictures.

titzer 4y ago

Welcome to the sum of all the local incentives. There are precious few who will serve a market for little or no profit, leaving most actors chasing the next sale/upgrade/market and rounding off the long tail of consumers who have little or no revenue potential. Face it, you are essentially worthless to the entire chain, except advertisers, so you'll be getting...uh bupkiss.

arbuge 4y ago

> Now you may think that it’s slow as mud in a pond. But, contrary to my experience with previous models, the iPhone SE actually got faster with iOS updates! ... > Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. ... > Some apps get slow and unresponsive Resetting my phone helped, but then within a week or two, the same apps are slow again. Rather contradictory article.

tiagod 4y ago
I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. Apps could get slower with their own updates (more bloat, less efficiency due to testing on newer devices) while the OS itself gets more efficient.
reportgunner 4y ago
How do you even tell that some apps got faster. Apple probably just put in faster animations and the user thinks the app is fast because things move quicker while they wait for the app do to something.

Jemm 4y ago

Trust me. Developers don't like having to update and rebundle their apps every year.

tonetheman 4y ago
[dead]

favsq 4y ago

>Because consider how much time you spend trying to not harm the environment in your free time: shopping for sustainable products, bringing your reusable cup, recycling. That's saying that people should share your views on politics, which is not rational.

hdhrufjdi 4y ago
Destroying what we live of is not rational

issafram 4y ago

I did not expect for him to end up blaming app developers

contravariant 4y ago
Especially when android seems to be demonstrably better at keeping apps working on old OS's.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

binarymax 4y ago

I have an iPhone 6s. I’m in the same boat. Yesterday the capital one app warned me to update as my iOS version is no longer supported. Well, I can’t. I really don’t want to get a new phone. I’m considering just going with a feature phone to cut down on screen time…but I’ll need something that supports Authenticator or MFA one time code gen. I’m in the denial phase of the 6 stages of grief with this thing.

Waterluvian 4y ago

I don’t understand how you can say your phone has been getting faster and then list every definition of slowness for why you need a new phone.

PaywallBuster 4y ago

buy 2nd hand

magic_hamster 4y ago

This might be a good opportunity to mention oldversion.com. It helped me out of a jam a couple of times. And I haven't verified it, but it seems to me like oldversion was around way before everything was being uploaded to archive.org. If you're into vintage software or older versions of current programs, check it out.

andrekandre 4y ago

> Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. I think it’s because today’s apps require more RAM than their older versions. is it that? i seem to remember something about flash chips wearing down over time and get less and less performance... could it be that instead?

mnw21cam 4y ago
The flash chips in the SSD in my actual computer don't seem to have done this, and they're older and have had higher write traffic. If this is a thing, does this just indicate the phone manufacturers are saving a few pence on each unit at our expense?
- nehal3m 4y ago
  >If this is a thing, does this just indicate the phone manufacturers are saving a few pence on each unit at our expense? Would this surprise you? If, before I bought a phone, I would have some insight into how long the storage chips will last that would definitely factor into my purchasing decision. This is not something reviews cover, or are even able to cover. Hope LTT Labs sets something up here.
  - mnw21cam 4y ago
    Yeah, this is definitely something I would factor into my purchasing decisions. My phone is showing trouble after just 3.5 years of use, which is unacceptable in my view. It isn't even as if I have used it heavily.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

Apple is making you buy a new iphone. They decided not to support the old API or to create adapters so that the ecosystem can live on decades. Meanwhile, you can sill run apps from 20 years ago on Windows.

Hypergraphe 4y ago
Can't agree more ! The levels of API backward compatibility of the Windows API is really impressive and should be taken as an example for everyone. Some Opensource projects like OpenSSL do have the same philosophy. This is harder for the developpers to maintain old APIs but it does develop a sense of trust on the products.

mnw21cam 4y ago

On a similar note, I have a Motorola G8+, Android 10. It has 4GB of RAM, plenty of free space in storage, and the CPU isn't actually that bad still. The battery is in good condition. A brand new phone doesn't necessarily have any better stats. For some reason, it is slow. As in, it will still usually run apps at full speed, the framerate in a flight sim is just as high as before etc, but then it will just freeze up for seconds at a time, or suddenly do something really slowly for a while. Sometimes it will fail to respond to the power button short-press to turn the screen on, but if I try again a minute later it will be fine. I have experienced this with multiple Androids over time. My previous phone got so bad that it sometimes wouldn't actually respond quickly enough to be able to answer a phone call, which is when I got the new one. What causes this? Is there some build-up of junk lying around in the system that I could press a magic button and clear out, without having to reinstall all my stuff from scratch? I could buy a new phone. But given a new one wouldn't have much more resources than my current one, it very much feels like the wrong workaround for a problem that shouldn't exist.

timvisee 4y ago
I still use my OnePlus 5 which is now (almost) 5 years old! It has 8GB of memory with Android 13 and a custom ROM. It's still faster than some phones that are released today. I agree though that some apps are extremely resource intensive for the sometimes seemingly things they have to do.
- V1ndaar 4y ago
  Funny. I'm still on a OnePlus 6 and I see similar bizarre freezes as OP when I open the photo gallery. Or just when starting the camera often I have to wait 15-20s before the phone realizes that I have pictures. Sometimes when swiping through the gallery it will become excessively slow and stop reacting to panning / swiping / zooming. It's what is driving me close to grabbing a new phone at some point this year.
  - timvisee 4y ago
    Not fun! Using a custom ROM? I'm running LineageOS with minimal Google Apps.

sideshowb 4y ago

My friend recently was forced to upgrade his phone by ... our local rail company Transport for Wales. Their smart ticketing app dropped support for his old handset with their latest update. The app is essential if you want a flexible season ticket (a substantial saving over the regular fares) so upgrading was an obvious choice for him ... so much for sustainable transport though :(

seabass-labrax 4y ago
Is it not still possible to print out the e-ticket (QR code ticket) in advance via the Web? That appears to be an option for all National Rail tickets sold in England at least.
- sideshowb 4y ago
  No, it's really so app only.

janandonly 4y ago

This hit home hard for me: > You decided that you wanted to use some framework/feature/API and save developer time. Which is odd. Because consider how much time you spend trying to not harm the environment in your free time: shopping for sustainable products, bringing your reusable cup, recycling. And then think of the minutes you save with new programming stuff compared to the number of iPhones discarded because of that.

SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
Interestingly, I felt the opposite reading that. Probably in the author’s country (I’m assuming the Netherlands, given the name and the prices in EUR) this is a general sentiment, but in America where most of the apps the author is using were written the average programmer probably does not care about this as much as the author thinks they do. This is not saying this for better or worse, just acknowledging the reality of the situation.
frodetb 4y ago
Me too, and I was disappointed to see this comment section mostly full of people either blaming the author or explaining why their experience actually makes sense. It's like a positive feedback-loop (though I guess morally negative) between manufacturers, developers, and users, all three dragging/pushing on the other to roll down the hill of faster hardware and heavier apps, none of them really in control or able to stop, and therefore also not directly to blame. The upgrade-train to Waste City has no breaks. Still, it seems to me at least that the manufacturers are the only ones strictly happy about the situation.
ryandrake 4y ago
These days, everything eventually gets sacrificed at the altar of "developer comfort". Backward compatibility gets thrown under the bus so code can be "cleaned up" and to reduce the testing scope. Software performance gets thrown under the bust so we can all program in Javascript. Platform-specific features get thrown under the bus in favor of a cross-platform framework so we only have to target one API. Download sizes get thrown under the bus so we can ship containers because it's hard to get programs to work on other people's computers. Less-frequently used features get thrown under the bus because it's hard to maintain all that old code.

gambiting 4y ago

Yeah I have an iPad Mini 2(from 2014!) Which works absolutely fine - it even still receives security updates from apple. I thought it would be a great tablet for my kid to watch cartoons on, but nope, even though you can download the latest version of Netflix and Disney+ both apps just crash after 5-10 minutes of playback. And I'm guessing there's no one at either company interested in fixing this. I've restored the tablet to factory settings and the same thing still happens. So I ended up buying the cheapest Amazon Fire tablet for like £50 which is probably the slowest computing device I've ever owned but it runs all streaming services without any trouble. I'd much rather use the iPad.

lordnacho 4y ago
I have old tablets that are barely able to show a clock app, which is essentially the last thing they can be used for. Every single thing you try to do with it is slow as molasses.
nottorp 4y ago
For a while the problem with older iDevices was the rapid ram increases across generations. Which leads to random crashes or crashes after some time on older devices because the devs tested on the latest and greatest. I think the ram growth has stagnated now? I kinda stopped caring.

fooblaster 4y ago

This is what you get when you get trapped in the apple ecosystem. I'd consider getting a pixel 6a - I purchased mine for 150$ with a trade in of a pixel 2 and it will get 5 years of software support.

popol12 4y ago
Are you aware that 2016 was 7 years ago ? The iPhone SE had 7 years of updates.
- fooblaster 4y ago
  Given the costs compared to a new iphone I think the support window for the pixel 6a is reasonable

ericabiz 4y ago

I run phone repair shops and the app starting up slowness is often caused by a failing battery. In fact, at our shops, on older iPhones, I can test the battery state by opening the camera app. If it takes 10-20 seconds to open, it’s usually the battery causing it. (The other cause is storage being close to full.) This won’t help the app resetting issue, which the author correctly identifies as a RAM problem (that I also encounter on my personal iPhone 13 Pro. Apple is horribly stingy with RAM even on the Pro models.) In general, if you use your phone daily, I recommend getting the battery replaced every 2-2.5 years.

creshal 4y ago
> Apple is horribly stingy with RAM even on the Pro models. 6 gigabytes of RAM on a phone is hardly stingy, when laptops with 8 gigabytes are still considered reasonable.
- muyuu 4y ago
  i think by stingy she means that they are not using the best memory chips to save money, so ram modules go bad often
  - creshal 4y ago
    That's the first time I've ever heard of that, is there anything to read up on that?
    - muyuu 4y ago
      I have no idea tbh, but that's what ericabiz seemed to imply, maybe I'm wrong and she meant something else
thefz 4y ago
> In general, if you use your phone daily, I recommend getting the battery replaced every 2-2.5 years. Another thing that people forget to do... please restart in once in a while.

jon889 4y ago

Says it's a perfectly functioning phone and then lists how it's not because it's old and got worn out. apps requiring later versions is an issue but the % of people on old iOS versions is really quite small. It makes no sense to waste development time on implementing something for <1% of customers on iOS 14, when you could use a newer API in one line of code.

chongli 4y ago
It’s not just apps requiring later versions, it’s apps using more and more memory due to the use of ever-more bloated frameworks and the like. The vast majority of these apps would’ve run fine on a computer from the 1980’s running at a handful of MHz in mere kilobytes of RAM, if they were optimized. But they use the trendiest frameworks and require gigabytes of RAM and gigahertz of clock cycles to run their todo-list (or whatever it is they do).
hpaavola 4y ago
Apps don't support older OS versions -> Nobody uses old OS -> No point supporting old OS as nobody uses those -> Apps don't support older OS versions -> ...

bioemerl 4y ago

Apple is making you use a new phone by dropping support for it in their OS updates. The fact that this happens at all anywhere at any time at any place for any reason, and can't just install an update yourself should be unacceptable and legislated against

Gigachad 4y ago
Apple supports the phones for 7 years, the current proposals floating around the EU are to mandate 4 years. They also don’t break anything, the apple services all continue to work forever, it’s 3rd party devs who drop support for older api versions. Nothing makes them do this.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  I'm not talking about a mandate for operating system support, I'm talking about a mandate to allow the user to install operating systems if they want to. It's not third party devs fault that the perfectly good hardware and an old iPhone is denied the ability to operate to a version of the operating system with the latest API support. You don't see this on Windows. You see it on Android, and it shouldn't happen there either. This wasn't a thing until mobile phones became a thing, and companies to seized the opportunity to be able to force all their hardware to be obsolete.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I seriously doubt this will make any difference to the average consumer. Every iPhone that has been dropped from api updates is so old that people have worked out how to completely bypass the security on them. You can install full Linux on most of these old iPhones. But absolutely no one has time to maintain an alternate OS for 7+ year old phones. And even if they did, no commercial apps would be ported to it. I'm all for mandating ability to flash custom firmware and OSs, but I'm under no delusion that some free labor will spring up and an alternate mobile ecosystem will flourish based on users with 7+ year old iphones. Android also has this issue but there are so many android phones that no one is really paying attention. Try using a 7+ year old Android and you'll notice many apps don't show up in the Play store. Sometimes it's because they only target the newer Android API versions, sometimes it's because your SoC doesn't have some instruction available, etc. Windows is probably the worst offender of the lot. My brand new gaming desktop is currently flagged as not supported by Windows 11. Apple does 7 years support while Microsoft does as little as 0.

ceva 4y ago

It's called Capitalism :)

Hypergraphe 4y ago
It's called wasting our resources !

graderjs 4y ago

Maybe one day there will be AI-optimized "emulation" apps that work on older hardware, but emulate newer hardware, making intelligent code path optimizations / branch prediction, etc with the help of AI-generated bytecode that lets you not have to upgrade your hardware, you just upgrade the emulator you use to run apps supposedly only supported on newer hardware. Also, whenever I hear "you're making me"--I instantly think of those Hollywood action/thriller movies, where in the climax, the villain often says, "You're making me do this" or something to that effect--and instantly distrust the speaker!

andylynch 4y ago
Well, you can already do things like this, eg emulating x86 on some microcontroller. But the problem tends to be that the emulation runs magnitudes slower than the new hardware, so it is impractical for almost every use case beside Doom ports to exotic hardware.
- graderjs 4y ago
  Yes yes yes, that's why I included AI-optimized >>> ^^ see above! :p :) xx;p

nehal3m 4y ago

At some point you're better off switching to a dumb phone for phone calls and a tablet with a data-SIM for everything else.

SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
I tried doing that a couple years ago. The problem with dumb phones (or at least the problem when I researched this several years ago) is that it’s a niche market with high enough demand that all of the products are low-effort, low quality and exorbitantly priced for what you get.
- eddieroger 4y ago
  I won't argue low effort, but I just went to my carrier's site (Verizon), and I can get a "basic" flip phone for $80 unsubsidized. The high end of the range, a ruggedized Kyocera, was $240. I don't think this is unreasonable for a range of devices that have much lower market desire than they did 15 years ago. At $80, I'd call that a disposable travel phone.
ChildOfChaos 4y ago
I found when I got an iPad (I never had a laptop at home), that I stopped using my phone much but when I do use it, I still need all the main features of a smartphone, like a decent camera, apps to manage everything (maps, public transport tickets, apps to order food/drinks etc), sadly everything is in a very app world these days. I wish there would be more effort put into making more basic smartphones, less running full blown OS and just have a few basic functions, like a decent camera, internet access, messaging and maps, but because they are mini computers they are bloated as hell.

Reason077 4y ago

C’mon, he’s still using a phone from 2016 (which was the low-end model even in 2016), and by his own admission it’s still pretty usable for most things. I think that’s a pretty good run. All the Android users I know have been through at least 3 or 4 phones in that period. And so have some of the iPhone users who obsessively upgrade every 2 years even though they don’t need to! (Typing this on an iPhone X from 2017…)

popol12 4y ago
It wasn't low end ! It was released with the same flagship SoC that was inside the last iPhone released (iPhone 7)
- JoBrad 4y ago
  The SE has always been the low-end phone, regardless of its internals.
- wruza 4y ago
  Apple doesn’t do a wide spectrum of ends, but SE is a low end, both price and hw-wise. It just doesn’t suck as much as 10%-priced devices android industry can offer, and most downgrades go to cameras, borders, etc. Which is nice, since not everyone is a selfie type.
- eddieroger 4y ago
  It is the cheapest of the phones they offer. It is literally the low end of the range. It has the same chip, but older everything else. It's OK for something to be the low end - it has a market and a purpose. It isn't a slam against the device.
SamBorick 4y ago
The hardware is still working. I think it's reasonable that the software should continue to work until the hardware is physically incapable of booting. An entire industry deciding that hardware "should" only last 6 years is shameful. (Typing this on a macbook pro 2012)

zabzonk 4y ago

they are trying to make me replace my feature phone. and i hate using a phone at all!

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> 2. Some apps get reset when I’m trying to multitask This is an issue I've been having too (iphone XR), since this didn't use to be the case and the apps I use aren't significantly different from the ones I used a few years ago, it makes me think this is some kind of forced obsolescence or an OS bug. It also highlights that many apps don't implement a suspend very well.

patwolf 4y ago

It's not just phones. Yesterday I tried to dust off a MacBook Air from 2012 so that the kids could play some games. It was used regularly up until 3 years ago, but now pretty much all software is broken, and it won't let me upgrade anything. Hopefully there's a Linux distro that will work on it.

schwartzworld 4y ago
Interesting, I still have a 2012 MBP that works great. I mostly use command line software on it, but it works just fine.
bombolo 4y ago
Linux is your only shot, apple removed support for i386 binaries and opengl, so 99% of games no longer works.
neurostimulant 4y ago
Manjaro runs great on my MBP 2012. Or you can turn your MacBook Air into a "hackintosh" and install the latest macos on it using OpenCore Legacy Patcher [1]. Just be aware that recent version of macos relies heavily on hardware acceleration (video playback, cryptography, etc) and will fallback to CPU on older unsupported hardware, which is slow and deplete your battery fast. [1] https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
SamBorick 4y ago
I'm currently running KDE Neon on a MBP 2012, and I've installed linux on a few apple devices from that era. The nvidia drivers can be a struggle, and wifi drivers have to be configured manually. But the performance is awesome!

Reason077 4y ago

> ”iPhones are getting more expensive” Certainly true in Europe, but remember that the Euro has declined in value significantly relative to the USD in the past few years. If you convert the € prices back into USD at the time of introduction, I bet they haven’t increased any faster than inflation.

petodo 4y ago

If you were using Android I would suggest just go for some mainstream model from Samsung (S series), Xiaomi (Mi X) or Pixel (basically any model) with pretty much guaranteed long term unofficial ROM updates even after official support cease if your problem were depreciated new app versions, but since you are voluntarily locked yourself to closed iOS, I have no suggestion other than stop updating apps and use the apps which were fine before. Btw. multitasking doesn't really work even on brand new iPhones. For the record I am running gapps free Lineage with Android 8.1 on my phone from 2018 without any issues, I can hardly find app which would not run on 5 years old Android 8.1, if something (rarely) doesn't work it's because of relying on gapps.

puika 4y ago

When it comes to phones, I tend to stick to lower-mid range ones that I know allow custom ROMs and have a certain community behind it and somewhat well supported. For instance I am running Android 12 on a 2016 ZUK Z2 shipped with 7, and if we ignore battery life and decreased performance it's still like having a new phone now. Same thing for my Redmi note 7 with Android 13. I cannot say the same for my iPad Air 2 from 2015, stuck on iOS 12 since I don't even know when, and can barely use it for anything apart from youtube and (supported) websites.

volleygman180 4y ago

Apple is to blame, honestly. Android at least releases support libraries to allow older devices to receive more patches as well as some newer platform features. This is unheard of on Apple's platforms. If Apple changes any code, then they simply push out a new version - if a framework has bugs since iOS 12 and they've fixed it, the fix will only rollout for iOS 16+ users and leave everyone else behind. Security updates are the one exception, but Apple is capable of much more. The company continues to step away from being a steward of good technology.

pcdoodle 4y ago

This makes me wonder if some people don't even get into writing software because of how ephemeral our platforms are today. "Not worth it." "This work will have to be redone every few years now." I still use 10+ year old software and hardware for getting very cool things done, and it really put things into perspective.

philipphutterer 4y ago

the whole planet upgrade their electronics at least every decade is just an obviously stupid thing and not enough people talk about it This is so true! How can we developers make this a bigger thing? Isn't there a market for this by now?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
I do not understand how it is an "obviously stupid thing". Technology advances quite a bit in 10 years, or at least it did from 1990s to 2010s. Not to mention that the newer devices yield considerable utility and efficiencies that make older devices redundant.
- pbmonster 4y ago
  > or at least it did from 1990s to 2010s. You write it yourself. Up to the 2010s. The majority of phone users use zero features - with the possible exception of the camera sensor - that where not also available at very high quality in 2013. For phones, I currently see zero reason for further hardware upgrades.
- aequitas 4y ago
  > Technology advances quite a bit in 10 years It certainly hasn't for mundane tasks like browsing the web or playing simple games. I recently bought a 10 year old 21,5 inch iMac for my kids for around the price that a same sized, also full hd, brand new screen would cost. Only that screen doesn't come with built-in i5 CPU, SSD, Gigabit and AC networking. It replaces a 2011 Macbook Pro only because I want something stationary for them and not something they get tempted to lug around and drop on the floor. Apple doesn't allow the latest OS's to be installed (though there are ways around that[0]) but I haven't felt the need for it. So unless you need raw performance or extreme power savings because you run your device 24/7 there should be no need to get the latest and "greatest". [0] https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
reportgunner 4y ago
It's gonna take a few decades, there are people who are in their first decade and there are people who are not even in their first decade.

lapcat 4y ago

I was quite satisfied with my iPhone 7 (2016) and didn't experience any problems with it, unlike the article author. However, iOS 16 doesn't support iPhone 7, so I had to buy a new iPhone SE (2022), which was the cheapest model available. The 2 phones are mostly identical, and indeed it's difficult to distinguish them if set side by side.

ericpauley 4y ago
Out of curiosity, why did you need to upgrade for iOS 16? 15 will likely be receiving security updates for a while longer.
- lapcat 4y ago
  I make apps for iOS, so I need to run the latest.

SCdF 4y ago

I've mentioned this on here before, but my otherwise perfectly functional Pixel 3A has been out of security-patch support for nearly a year. It's disgusting honestly, my only options are to try to find some open source project keeping patches up to date, have my most important information on an unpatched device, or throw it in the trash.

UncleSlacky 4y ago
LineageOS looks like your best bet: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sargo/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sargo/
- SCdF 4y ago
  Honestly my best bet is to never buy an android again, which is what I will likely be doing. (I know the original article I'm commenting on _is about iPhones_, but their phone is from 2016, and mine is from 2019, which from the perspective of losing support in 2022 is basically twice as good)
YellOh 4y ago
Huh. I've been using a Pixel 2 for a long time (got it early after release), and for some reason it's never occurred to me to worry. My battery life is still awesome, so I figured I'd just use this thing until it dies. If you do switch to OSS, let me know how it goes -- I've considered switching to Replicant or PureOS for freedom/privacy reasons, but haven't had a good enough reason to put in the effort yet. Edit: looking at the release date, it looks like I've had my phone for ~5.5 years, and luckily I've had zero of the problems of the person who wrote the original article. All my apps still work as expected, and I've never noticed issues with new apps I download. I'm not saying their problems aren't real, just that they're not usiversal.
Vrondi 4y ago
You can put Lineage OS on it and have security patches again: https://lineageosroms.com/sargo/ https://lineageosroms.com/sargo/

muyuu 4y ago

it's because of stuff like this, and the absurd security/surveillance model, that I simply refuse to install any apps every app is an added dependency and a possible headache if you incorporate it in your workflow perhaps paradoxically, if only superficially, the only apps that make sense to install are games and simple tools with immediate replacement in your computer or web - and even that comes with caveats regarding security and privacy preservation

ericpauley 4y ago

The analysis of phone lifetimes based on software support is dubious. Apple generally supports groups of devices together that are similar hardware. Given iPhones 12-14 are virtually identical I’d expect these will all lose support around the same time. Generally, this article is apple hate on steroids!! Apple is still releasing security updates for a 7-year-old device; name a mainstream android phone that’s doing that. The author should get a refurbished 12 mini. $350 right now and will probably get 5+ years of updates.

ovao 4y ago
I don’t think you read the article fully. The gripe is more about what mobile app developers do with respect to long-term support for older hardware/OS versions and much less about what Apple does.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  Apple and Google now both require that you keep your app up to date with the new SDKs, even if your app works perfectly fine on the old version. As you upgrade to fix changes for that, it gets harder and hard to maintain support for older OSes. I'm not at all surprised that most app developers don't spend the time to ensure that their app continues to work on older devices, especially those that have a tiny marketshare now. You can blame it on the developer for not supporting that, but it's in response to things that Apple and Google are doing, and I'd argue that they're really the ones at fault.
dmix 4y ago
Those 12-14 minis are amazing phones. My girlfriend has one and the form factor is perfect for her and it was affordable. Feels high quality in your hand, reminded me of a modern iPhone 4.
Aromasin 4y ago
I was trying to find an answer to your question and found a great website I thought I should share, documenting when Samsung EOL their devices. Oldest mobile device (not including smart watches) to have security updates is the Galaxy C7 from 2017. Genuine device support only extends as far back as 2019 to the Samsung S10 though. I found Apple's list also, which I'll share below. https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile https://support.apple.com/en-ie/guide/iphone/iphe3fa5df43/ios https://support.apple.com/en-ie/guide/iphone/iphe3fa5df43/io...

a-dub 4y ago

at least apple ships security updates for older devices. last i looked, they go back at least 7 years. before the pixel 6, qualcomm pixels capped out at 3 years. it should be a legal requirement to unlock bootloaders and possibly even open source the software when a company chooses to stop providing security updates for embedded computers. either that or there should be a fine for every device for every year it is unsupported in the first ten years after manufacture.

xbar 4y ago

"For no apparent reason, Safari acts like there’s no internet connection. Rebooting solves that until a week later." My iPhone 13 Pro does this all the time when I'm not on Wifi. Time to visit the Apple store and make them give me a free phone. Is it actually a phone problem? Doubtful. But they should pay. Oh yes, they will pay (by providing a replacement under their silly-expensive replacement plan).

dmix 4y ago
What about Chrome? Or is it general connectivity?

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

I buy a discount old non-iPhone from Target for $29. When I drop it and it's destroyed, I drop by Target and get another one. I have in my lifetime spent less than 10% of one iPhone on phones total. It runs maybe half as fast as a current phone. At 3% of the price.

returningfory2 4y ago
The math doesn’t check out? My iPhone SE is $430 new, so as soon as you’ve bought two of these throwaway phones you’re over 10%? Making this comment to push back on the idea that somehow iPhones are insanely expensive; the SE is not.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Just bragging. And yes they are insanely expensive. And the SE is half the phone the most expensive iPhone is. About the same phone I have. So there's then no reason at all to buy it over a $29 phone. At least not from my point of view
nebula8804 4y ago
I used to buy these phones. There is a value in not having to deal with some garbage build of Android in day to day usage. Just because you are fine with this compromise does not mean the majority of the Apple user base will be.

Phiwise_ 4y ago

>Buys apple phone >Shocked at cost of keeping up with normal industry progress I always think I'll never be surprised again by the sheer scale of compartmentalization of knowledge some people in this industry are capable of.

dmix 4y ago
If your point is that they would have experienced better software longevity with an Android device I have a bridge to sell you. The slow software issues experienced by older phones is universal across the industry. And buying cheap disposable Android phones means you’re trading off quality in hardware. My mom’s android phone went from really slow to completely unusable within 3yrs after an OS update.
pwb25 4y ago
the problem is the gated app stores and forced updates I use a laptop from 2016 with no problem at all really for programming for example

MagicMoonlight 4y ago

Just get the battery replaced. You wrote this entire article without trying the cheap repair service they offer that normally restores it to 100% speed. Try it then come back to us. 99% of the time its only slow because of battery throttling.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vbarrielle 4y ago

I think the blame can be put on the closed ecosystems of phones. On laptops and desktops, with the possibility to install any OS, it's more often possible to meet the requirements of up-to-date frameworks using the same hardware. My laptop is from 2010 and is still running everything I want, it's up to date and responsive. With the current hardware of phones, and even their hardware of 6 years ago, I don't see any reason why they should be changed, other than being closed platforms where one cannot control the OS.

jonnycomputer 4y ago
and app markets
joshspankit 4y ago
Anyone remember when hardware manufacturers and media companies were separate? I think we took a dark turn when Apple started signing the legal agreements needed to distribute copyright media to people who bought Apple hardware.

hankchinaski 4y ago

>You decided that if less than 1% of your users use a certain old device, it’s no longer relevant. Which is odd, because to many businesses, 1% of users can make the difference between profit or loss. If that 1% of customers are as stingy as you are, they are probably right on ignoring you

mrzool 4y ago

> Starting some apps takes really long, like 10–20 seconds. I think it’s because today’s apps require more RAM than their older versions. Also SSD wear and tear after years of use can cause a device to become sluggish.

fortran77 4y ago

Rumor mill says that the next iPhone won't have a physical "silent" switch. This will be a dealbreaker for me and I suspect many other people. Not sure what to do when my current phone becomes unusable.

helf 4y ago

[dead]

remote_phone 4y ago

Had OP tried changing the battery? It might be the better that is causing slow performance.

causality0 4y ago

I was forced to give up my beloved OnePlus 6 when AT&T started only accepting whitelisted handsets. Being able to use any GSM phone was the whole reason I moved my family from Verizon two years earlier.

livrem 4y ago

I would not mind more permanent (subsets of) standards on all platforms. The only stable environments that seem to exist are accidental, being emulators for dead platforms like Dosbox or UAE. Software for a modern, non-dead, platform is almost guaranteed to run at best for a few years before it, as they say, rots.

ajmurmann 4y ago

I wonder if the SE just was released with too little memory. I bought a iPhone SE 2020 and swapped it out a little over a year later for an iPhone 14Pro because of the app reset issue (granted I bought the phone when it already had been on the market for a while). Before that I had my iPhone 6S for over 5 years and had expected to keep the SE for much longer as well. I now also wish memory numbers were more of a focus when Apple releases a new phone. We keep hearing about storage, cameras neutral processors and yet lack of memory makes the device a pain to use shortly after release. I only now looked up memory for these devices on Wikipedia and the 2020 SE has only 2Gb of memory, just like the iPhone 6SE had! I'm honestly shocked that the SE still had the same memory as a phone 5 years earlier and also by how low the absolute numbers are.

martin_drapeau 4y ago

I used to think this way but over the years I came to realize that iPhone progress comes at a price and the benefits greatly outweigh the cost. Notably: - iPhones improve over time (Face ID was somewhat slow on 10 but is really fast on 12) - Replacing allows Apple to fund next generations If no one upgraded, progress would not be as fast. My next wish is for Siri to be faster (no latency please) and smarter. With LLMs become mainstream, I can finally see a day this may happen. I'm more that happy to upgrade my phone every 2 or 3 generations to fund improvements of Apple silicon.

joshspankit 4y ago

Something I have not seen yet: Apple has a significant part in this. To keep an app on the app store, the dev has to pay the yearly fee, and keep up to date with Apple’s requirements (which they legally agree to do through agreeing to the updated TOS). To keep up to date with Apple’s requirements they must (sometimes) make a minor edit to their code and upload the new version. To upload the new version they must use the latest version of XCode. To use the latest version of XCode they must also be running the latest version of macOS (and sometimes must update their dev device(s) to the latest version of iOS). If they use the latest version of XCode their code must compile on it. To compile their code they must (most times) use Apple’s new internal APIs and remove references to old Apple APIs. Apple treats devs like consumers. The ever-advancing wall of “progress” pushes devs forward just like it pushes users forward. No one has the choice to stay behind peacefully.

pwinnski 4y ago
This is all true, and the interesting thing to me is that I don't think it's intentional. That is, it seems to be the natural result of steady innovation without special effort being made to keep things stable for those who want to avoid innovation. Should they make that extra effort? Sure, arguably they should. Apple's philosophy has always been to look forward, not back, though, and things like supporting 32-bit code on 64-bit architectures require a lot of effort for little perceived gain. Then again, that effort means people can jump off of the circular treadmill, so maybe it's worth it.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  You might be right about it not being intentional (putting aside the argument that lack of choice is itself a choice), but I would argue that putting in the effort is their responsibility as a part of the larger goal of sustainability. In this case Apple says they want their products to be completely sustainable, and yet they are choosing profit over sustainability by putting fences on either side of the circular treadmill.
  - pwinnski 4y ago

windex 4y ago

With AI enabled programming coming in etc, I expect many apps will start getting faster as code gets refactored to not use bloated thirdparty frameworks etc. Older devices, and electronic waste should reduce with the possible optimizations of apps. I maintain my devices well and have pristine devices I still use from 2010, but the apps make it run like molasses.

paletteOvO 4y ago

You are using Apple's products. That's why you have no choice.