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Not good enough. You have to also put a stop payment at your bank against all PayPal transactions.

burnte 4y ago
I changed banks back in 07 over this.
krenel 4y ago
[EU/SEPA Only] If you have signed a B2B SEPA Direct Debit (SDD), it's enough to revoke it on your banking portal as you have mentioned. Your bank is required for a signed Mandate to be able to debit your account. If you have been debited already for a B2B SDD, you only have 3 inter-banking business days to try to Reject the payment (if your bank offers that as a service), afterwards the bank that has issued the SDD is not legally bounded to return the money. If it's a Core SEPA Direct Debit, there is not the concept of a "signed mandate" but according to the rulebook [1] you have up to 13 months [2] to ask for a Return. [_sigh_] I've spend so much team reading those rulebooks [1] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-payment-schemes/sepa-direct-debit/sepa-direct-debit-core-rulebook-and https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-payme... [2] "If the request for a Refund concerns an Unauthorised Transaction, a Debtor must present its claim to the Debtor PSP within 13 months of the debit date. [...]"
miroljub 4y ago
Is thin an American thing? Can they just pool money at will? In the EU, if you revoke their SEPA direct debit permission, they are committing a fraud if they try to pull money, and 99.9999% of companies will not even try. If someone still does it, you can revoke the transaction in your online banking interface, and the company will then have to pay an additional fee to the bank.
- hedora 4y ago
  If they're large enough, they can get away with it, and the bank's insurance just eats the cost. Experian routinely generates unauthorized credit card charges. The banks know, but they rely too heavily on the credit rating industry to stand up to them.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  I think a "stop payment" is the US name for revoking direct debit permissions.
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    There is no initial permission. Anyone with your info can pull money out of your account. A stop payment just blocks a specific person from doing it again.
- neltnerb 4y ago
  I've had to call my bank and they had a very hard time unapproving someone after I'd given them deposit permissions but ended the business relationship. It was weird. They seemed very confused by the request.
- throwaway742 4y ago
  Yeah all that is needed to do an ACH pull is a name, account number, and routing number. There is no real security.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  If you spot it in time. Plenty of people don't actually monitor their bank account all that closely. This is how lots of money gets stolen.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    Supposedly there is no time limit on direct debit claims: https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-debit-guarantee/ https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-...
    - memsom 4y ago
      Having had to deal with this is a previous job, from what I remember the rules DD are pretty strict and if you mess up as the collection agency, you have to put it right. You also don't get to just recollect - the few times we had software issues, we needed to write to all the people you are going to recollect from and inform them it will happen.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    You have a lot of time though, it's just that it gets harder to reverse. Netflix' fraud detection is garbage and someone created an account with random letters, some throwaway email and my bank account. I didn't notice until it was like three months in. For the two later transactions, I could reverse them immediately and the money was back in my account on the next business day. The other one was outside of that window, but my bank filed a request with their bank and it took forever, but eventually they paid it back. I believe this works for something like 13 months. Beyond that, you could still sue the person (and their bank) who fraudulently debited money out of your account, but you don't get a default win. So at least in Germany you have about a year to notice.

I changed banks back in 07 over this.

[EU/SEPA Only] If you have signed a B2B SEPA Direct Debit (SDD), it's enough to revoke it on your banking portal as you have mentioned. Your bank is required for a signed Mandate to be able to debit your account. If you have been debited already for a B2B SDD, you only have 3 inter-banking business days to try to Reject the payment (if your bank offers that as a service), afterwards the bank that has issued the SDD is not legally bounded to return the money. If it's a Core SEPA Direct Debit, there is not the concept of a "signed mandate" but according to the rulebook [1] you have up to 13 months [2] to ask for a Return. [_sigh_] I've spend so much team reading those rulebooks [1] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-payment-schemes/sepa-direct-debit/sepa-direct-debit-core-rulebook-and https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-payme... [2] "If the request for a Refund concerns an Unauthorised Transaction, a Debtor must present its claim to the Debtor PSP within 13 months of the debit date. [...]"

miroljub 4y ago

Is thin an American thing? Can they just pool money at will? In the EU, if you revoke their SEPA direct debit permission, they are committing a fraud if they try to pull money, and 99.9999% of companies will not even try. If someone still does it, you can revoke the transaction in your online banking interface, and the company will then have to pay an additional fee to the bank.

hedora 4y ago
If they're large enough, they can get away with it, and the bank's insurance just eats the cost. Experian routinely generates unauthorized credit card charges. The banks know, but they rely too heavily on the credit rating industry to stand up to them.
marcosdumay 4y ago
I think a "stop payment" is the US name for revoking direct debit permissions.
- throwaway742 4y ago
  There is no initial permission. Anyone with your info can pull money out of your account. A stop payment just blocks a specific person from doing it again.
neltnerb 4y ago
I've had to call my bank and they had a very hard time unapproving someone after I'd given them deposit permissions but ended the business relationship. It was weird. They seemed very confused by the request.
throwaway742 4y ago
Yeah all that is needed to do an ACH pull is a name, account number, and routing number. There is no real security.
jacquesm 4y ago
If you spot it in time. Plenty of people don't actually monitor their bank account all that closely. This is how lots of money gets stolen.
- tomxor 4y ago
  Supposedly there is no time limit on direct debit claims: https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-debit-guarantee/ https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-...
  - memsom 4y ago
    Having had to deal with this is a previous job, from what I remember the rules DD are pretty strict and if you mess up as the collection agency, you have to put it right. You also don't get to just recollect - the few times we had software issues, we needed to write to all the people you are going to recollect from and inform them it will happen.
- luckylion 4y ago
  You have a lot of time though, it's just that it gets harder to reverse. Netflix' fraud detection is garbage and someone created an account with random letters, some throwaway email and my bank account. I didn't notice until it was like three months in. For the two later transactions, I could reverse them immediately and the money was back in my account on the next business day. The other one was outside of that window, but my bank filed a request with their bank and it took forever, but eventually they paid it back. I believe this works for something like 13 months. Beyond that, you could still sue the person (and their bank) who fraudulently debited money out of your account, but you don't get a default win. So at least in Germany you have about a year to notice.