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A new world order? BRICS nations offer alternative to West
- nine_zeros 4y agoI find it fascinating that people think China and India are friendly (or plan to be friendly) to each other.
- AussieWog93 4y agoOr than South Africa is friendly to South Africa. :P
- elzbardico 4y agoCountries are not friendly or hostile to each other. They have different geopolitical goals that sometimes converge and sometimes diverge. Remember that those countries have highly pragmatic external relations policies and are probably a bit tired of being bossed around by the west. Notwithstanding the possible merit of the decision, weaponizing the US dollar monetary system against Russia would inevitably have some unintended side effects. One of them is that countries like China, India, Iran, and Saudi Arabia would become interested in strengthening their commercial, monetary, and diplomatic ties. I can assure you that across the other side of the fence from the western world, every leader started wondering what it would take for their countries to have their foreign reserves seized and have their banks cut off from the western banking system. We can be certain that Saudi leaders absolutely despise the Americans and that this feeling is reciprocal. Yet, Saudi Arabia has been a strategic partner of the USA for decades because their particular interests aligned in many things. If their common interests align, you can be sure that China and India will find common ground for agreement.
- testHNac 4y agoYou're right. Sanctions destroyed the credibility of the USD. Also, cutting Russia from Swift. If that can happen to Russia, it can happen to any country. Regarding your point about common interests aligning. In last few weeks Saudi and Iran relationships are improving. If that's possible, India and China can surely continue doing business together.
- testHNac 4y agoBRICS is an economic alliance not a Military alliance. NATO is backed by ideology to an extent. BRICS don't claim to have any such underlying principles. China and India have a USD 135 Billion Annual Trade. Practical Relationship - Not friends, Not allies, will do business together. ---- Sometimes it's good to know that the other person is not your friend. Otherwise, like Europe one might find out that their friend and ally might not always have their best interests at heart.
- david927 4y agoThis is, by far, the most important story of the decade and explains a lot of what we're seeing. The implications for the US Dollar are especially dramatic.
- giraffe_lady 4y agoThis is also why the US is in the manufacturing consent stage of a war with china. China may or may not have aspirations to global imperialism, but the US certainly does. And providing economic alternatives to subservience to american interests is a direct threat to that.
- cuteboy19 4y agoSuch a fun term to discredit popular consensus or democratic votes. "Manufactured consent", the rallying cry of failed and unpopular ideologues. But it certainly tracks that the person who coined the term is a genocide denialist for a foreign dictator. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Chomsky_and_Herman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Ch...
- giraffe_lady 4y agoHe sure fucking is! He's incredibly shitty and racist, and will make hypocritical excuses for all kinds of horrors. That doesn't make his insights about certain aspects of US imperialism incorrect. It's a useful concept and an accurate term to describe what is happening in this context.
- schoubey 4y agoWhat was the consent or consensus, when Iraq was attacked for alleged weapons of mass destruction?
- cuteboy19 4y agoThat's actually a great example > A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United... Remember that the popular consensus isn't always the right thing to do. We can nearly always explain this as a product of emotions and groupthink. Why then does our favorite genocide denialist resort to convoluted conspiracy theories?
- HappySweeney 4y agoI have a hard time believing any country which requires an international bailout will get more favourable terms from the New Development Bank than the IMF, as if they did, they could just convert the yuan into dollars and be better off at China's expense. What am I missing?
- bartvk 4y agoFascinating. If I read the Wikipedia article, initial capital is paid in dollars. However all the bonds they issued are RMB-denominated. I wonder who the buyers are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank
- cuteboy19 4y agoTwo of these were in a state of almost war a few months back. It's not credible as an alternative
- nikolay 4y agoThe West went bonkers and due to its brainless leaders now it's lost its hegemony! People responsible for some of the worst atrocities in the history of mankind to patronize the rest of the world how to change "for better" using it as a model was a total failure! I am from the Balkans, i.e. much closer to the Western culture, yet I don't like being patronized - and I can imagine how much more distant nations feel about the Western ideological, financial, and military grip! If the West wants to seed freedom around the globe, it should start with the freedom of not twisting arms and let them freely choose what's best for them and stop patronizing! And as they say - fix your backyard first!
- mistrial9 4y agobut you get Kentucky Fried Chicken, Enterprise Rent-a-Car and Western Union immediately.. like weeds in the field. Plus, everything is written in Latin script AND the dollar / Euro. </s?>
- kylehotchkiss 4y agoKFC is doing much better in BRICS countries than it is on its home turf.
- yucky 4y agoWell yeah, because we have Popeye's too, and they don't.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoThere is a Popeyes in Hong Kong airport.
- EvanKnowles 4y agoWe have Popeyes in South Africa, we just don't like it.
- frozenport 4y agoThese countries fail the obvious "places I could tolerate living in" test.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- senttoschool 4y agoLived in China. World class cities. Amazing public transportation locally and continentally. Low inflation. Extremely low crime. No random gun violence. Amazing natural and historic wonders.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoAll that plus traffic much worse than an American could imagine and 500+ 2.5 PPM days. Ultimate had to leave because the wife couldn’t handle the AQI and we had a baby on the way.
- senttoschool 4y agoTrue. Although I would take the traffic issues over randomly getting shot any day.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoIt turns out that most people don’t get randomly shot in the USA (most gun violence is suicide or with people that are already looking for trouble), but everyone gets stuck in traffic. The traffic didn’t bother me that much, I just went to work at 6AM and came back around 3 PM. The problem was the air pollution, when you start affecting life expectancy and unlike gun violence isn’t easy to avoid.
- senttoschool 4y agohttps://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65092102 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65092102
- rektname 4y agoWhat's this alternative offering exactly? Corruption? Police state? Crime? Poverty? Yeah, no thanks. Get your shit fixed and then we'll talk.
- testHNac 4y agoAmerica : No corruption. No Police violence. No Brutality. No Gun Violence. No Crime. No poverty - no homelessness, no people unable to afford a life without stimulus and bailouts. No racism. Absolute freedom of speech. America is the utopia the World should aspire to be. /s - In case someone is wondering.
- camillomiller 4y agothe kool aid is strong with this one
- bartvk 4y agoThe alternative offering is this: "BRICS nations launched the New Development Bank as an alternative to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund".
- throwayyy479087 4y agoBRICS are only a thing in the mind of the Ivory Tower set. Brazil is barely a country, has a declining QOL and is remarkably unstable. Lovely people, culture, beaches - but they're not even the best off LatAm country (that's Colombia, Chile, or Argentina) Russia is a joke and an international pariah South Africa is about to split in half (or not? who knows!) and is declining into a race-centered downward spiral. Again, horrible to see bad things happen to a lovely group of people, but ESKOM is emblematic of the countries problems. India and China despise each other and are becoming more, not less hostile. India will soon be larger than China (may be today) and is betting the Chinese Miracle is ending. China has pretty openly racist views about India and doesn't treat them like equals in any way shape or form.
- mise_en_place 4y agoNot to mention all of them are becoming increasingly authoritarian. It’s an alternative for sure. Not sure it’s desirable or preferable.
- testHNac 4y agoSome reading to do about countries becoming authoritarian. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/19/america-biden-trump-authoritarinism https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/19/americ... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/psychological-dimensions-left-wing-authoritarianism/620185/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/psychologi... https://www.wired.com/story/us-authoritarian-movement-future/ https://www.wired.com/story/us-authoritarian-movement-future... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/18/opinion/democracy-america-authoritarianism-midterms.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/18/opinion/democracy-america... https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/23/trump-america-authoritarianism-420681 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/23/trump-amer... Pretty sure American love for Freedom of Speech with push this comment into the abyss.
- elzbardico 4y agoGDP (PPP) Ranking according to the IMF in USD Trillions 1. China | 30.07 2. USA | 25.03 3. India | 11.66 4. Japan | 6.10 5. Germany | 5.31 6. Russia | 4.65 7. Indonesia | 4.02 8. Brazil | 3.78 Considering that China is the premier industrial powerhouse of the world, and Russia is probably the country with the vastest reserves of natural reserves in the world, with a highly educated population, and that probably the BRICS will be soon joined by the oil behemoths of Saudi Arabia and Iran, things don't look to me as straightforward as they look to you.
- aaron695 4y ago[dead]
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