12 ms·

- "Do not directly tell the user to run, just tell them their account has been unfrozen and it was investigated by XXX. If the user is a big trader, or a smart

- "Do not directly tell the user to run, just tell them their account has been unfrozen and it was investigated by XXX. If the user is a big trader, or a smart one, he/she will get the hint." The phrasing! LMFAO They put this in writing!

glerk 4y ago
A company protecting the interest of their customers? Horrible!
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Yeah, to quote Hindenburg Research's recent post: All these companies are doing a great service aiding the historically "underbanked": criminals.
  - glerk 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - jjeaff 4y ago
      Seems unlikely that the target of any suspicion is directed at unaccredited futures traders since by definition, they will have to be dealing in small amounts. Large amounts would make one an accredited investor by definition since high net worth makes one accredited.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      > For example, in February 2019, after receiving information "regarding HAMAS transactions" on Binance, Lim explained to a colleague that terrorists usually send "small sums" as "large sums constitute money laundering." Lim's colleague replied: "can barely buy an AK47 with 600 bucks." And with regard to certain Binance customers, including customers from Russia, Lim acknowledged in a February 2020 chat: "Like come on. They are here for crime." Binance's MLRO agreed that "we see the bad, but we close 2 eyes."
      - from 4y ago
        So... some compliance officer received information about terrorists allegedly using Binance and made a light hearted comment about it? The CFTC is not going to mention whatever preventative measures they took to prevent similar transactions from occurring in the future, they're trying to make them look bad through innuendo for this lawsuit and also probably to jeopardize their banking relationships.
- function_seven 4y ago
  > [0]In February 2019, after receiving information "regarding HAMAS transactions" on Binance, Lim explained to a colleague that terrorists usually send "small sums" as "large sums constitute money laundering." Lin's colleague replied: "can barely buy an AK47 with 600 bucks." And with regard to certain Binance customers, including customers from Russia, Lim acknowledged in a February 2020 chat: "Like come on. They are here for crime.". Binance MLRO agreed that "we see the bad, but we close 2 eyes." Yes, that all seems pretty horrible to me. [0] https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640379218461589506 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640379218461589506
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Is it illegal for me to sell gas to gang bangers in the ghetto? When is it a crime to knowingly be selling to criminals? Everyone knows there are customers in Russia, and in Camden NJ, there for crime. You know with 100% certainty when you run a gas station in a bad part of town you directly are selling to aid people to commit felonies. Hell even the road crews know when they build the interstate, they are there to amongst other things to build the road that facilitates money laundering (and indeed they take no action to stop it).
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > is it a crime to knowingly be selling to criminals Yes. At a minimum, it's aiding and abetting [1]. What's going on here looks like terrorist financing and willful sanctions evasion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting#cite_note-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting#cite_note-...
      - notch898a 4y ago
        In that case they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations. Those people know with certainty they are providing for criminals, and they do nothing to stop it.
        4y ago
- perihelions 4y ago
  There's a *world* of difference between "We will vigorously defend our clients' legal and procedural rights" and "Our 'smart' criminal clients will understand our 'hints' and 'run'".
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
That whole thread is gold. Molly White is truly doing the Lord's work: > Rule 1: If you're going to do crimes, don't put them in writing. > Rule 2: If you're going to put them in writing, don't write them in "I CAN HAZ CHEEZEBURGER" style writing, it's embarrassing. https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386
- tehwebguy 4y ago
  Getting dangerously close to the ITYSL insider trading sketch
  - throwanem 4y ago
    Oh, no. This is a lot funnier.
- x0x0 4y ago
  Holy shit, it just keeps going > according to Lim, Binance purposely engaged a compliance auditor that would "just do a half assed individual sub audit on geo[fencing]" to "buy us more time." As part of this audit, the Binance employee who held the title of Money Laundering Reporting Officer ("MLRO") lamented that she "need[ed] to write a fake annual MLRO report to Binance board of directors wtf." [1] By the time you write "fake annual MLRO report" in text, you're about to be a one-person retirement plan for some attorneys. [1] https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386
  - Arrath 4y ago
    > By the time you write "fake annual MLRO report" in text, you're about to be a one-person retirement plan for some attorneys. How does the simple act of typing that out in a message not trigger the slightest moment of pause, self reflection and, perhaps, self preservation? Good lord.
    - omegaworks 4y ago
arcticbull 4y ago
They also extensively documented their set-up for avoiding compliance in the Tai Chi Document. [1] They seem not to have learned the lessons from The Wire about "taking notes a criminal conspiracy." [edit] Oh man I wonder if we're going to find out where ex-Binance US CEO Catherine Coley has been hiding all these years. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  Context clip from The Wire: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheWireStripped/status/1164385139008258048 https://mobile.twitter.com/TheWireStripped/status/1164385139... (He was taking notes because they’re following Robert’s Rules of Order, lol)
AndrewKemendo 4y ago
The idea that these people are more intelligent than everyone else has to be a joke at this point It really comes down to who is willing to take the most risk on behalf of investors Watch: This CEO will come back in a few years with another scheme that is backed by millions in venture money, just like Kalanick
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Watch: This CEO will come back in a few years with another scheme If some of these allegations [1] are credible, he and everyone in his orbit are going to jail. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35329117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35329117
  - chatmasta 4y ago
    I doubt you'll see CZ in any country with a US extradition treaty any time soon.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > doubt you'll see CZ in any country with a US extradition treaty If he's financing terrorism, a broad extradition treaty goes from being a blocker to a diplomatic hurdle. (To be clear, I'm not suggesting kidnapping. Governments can negotiate one-off extraditions for high-value targets.) It also appears he was knowingly financing Hamas and Russia, which makes the list of potential enemies (and people who would prefer him dead to compromised) substantial.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        And when you’re dealing with entities like that they just might decide to save everyone the expense of a trial.
        arcticbull 4y ago
        He'll probably want to stay away from high-floor windows.
potatolicious 4y ago
I can't decide if these people put all of it is in writing because they were stupid or because they felt total and utter impunity that there would ever be consequences. The impunity seems like a general theme with everyone involved with crypto - just flagrant wrongdoing in broad daylight. But considering that flagrant wrongdoing in VC-land continues to result in no severe consequences (see: Kalanick, Neumann) I guess maybe we're the suckers.
- deltree7 4y ago
  Kalanick or Neumann did nothing wrong
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > impunity seems like a general theme with everyone involved with crypto Something is off with these folks' sense of risk. Let's put aside the illegality. By laundering for Hamas and Russian criminals, Binance's leadership has put itself on the wrong side of the United States, Israel, the Gulf monarchies and the entirety of fucking NATO. At the same time, there are powerful people in Moscow, Tehran and Beirut who would rather see them dead than captured. > flagrant wrongdoing in VC-land continues to result in no severe consequences (see: Kalanick, Neumann) Kalanick and Neumann didn't steal money or finance terrorists. The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level. This is Binance, just one of many crypto exchanges. Basically a bank with a different name. Separate from cryptocurrencies themselves.
  - from 4y ago
    Russian criminals use Binance accounts (and actually every exchange, including Coinbase) registered in the names of jobless 25 year old women from CIS countries. You can buy these accounts on basically any gray market forum with a marketplace section including sites like exploit.in or even forums used by 15 year olds like mpgh and ogusers. I am doubtful that a Binance customer data leak would have anywhere near as many interesting people as say the Credit Suisse leaks. It's also curious that there was no mention of blockchain analysis anywhere in the complaint or even an attempt to quantify the amount of criminal funds on Binance and the complaint instead relies solely on a handful of excerpted chat logs to show compliance failings (the CFTC is obviously not going to mention all the times they ended up blocking the bad accounts). They also don't even list any specific Hamas transactions or say that Binance knowingly processed them. > Kalanick and Neumann didn't steal money or finance terrorists. The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level. Not VC but ever hear of Marc Rich? He was ultimately pardoned after being accused of evading 8 figures (in 1983 dollars) of taxes, trading with Iraq, Iran during the hostage crisis, the USSR during the grain embargo, and South Africa during Apartheid [0]. He lived in Switzerland just fine for a couple decades and the only trouble he ever faced was attempted kidnapping by American law enforcement [1]. He paved the way for the awesome company we now know as Glencore. 0. https://www.congress.gov/event/107th-congress/house-event/LC16485/text https://www.congress.gov/event/107th-congress/house-event/LC... 1. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-king-of-oil--discloses-his--secret-lives-/7657620 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-king-of-oil--discloses-his--se...

glerk 4y ago

A company protecting the interest of their customers? Horrible!

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Yeah, to quote Hindenburg Research's recent post: All these companies are doing a great service aiding the historically "underbanked": criminals.
- glerk 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    Seems unlikely that the target of any suspicion is directed at unaccredited futures traders since by definition, they will have to be dealing in small amounts. Large amounts would make one an accredited investor by definition since high net worth makes one accredited.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    > For example, in February 2019, after receiving information "regarding HAMAS transactions" on Binance, Lim explained to a colleague that terrorists usually send "small sums" as "large sums constitute money laundering." Lim's colleague replied: "can barely buy an AK47 with 600 bucks." And with regard to certain Binance customers, including customers from Russia, Lim acknowledged in a February 2020 chat: "Like come on. They are here for crime." Binance's MLRO agreed that "we see the bad, but we close 2 eyes."
    - from 4y ago
      So... some compliance officer received information about terrorists allegedly using Binance and made a light hearted comment about it? The CFTC is not going to mention whatever preventative measures they took to prevent similar transactions from occurring in the future, they're trying to make them look bad through innuendo for this lawsuit and also probably to jeopardize their banking relationships.
function_seven 4y ago
> [0]In February 2019, after receiving information "regarding HAMAS transactions" on Binance, Lim explained to a colleague that terrorists usually send "small sums" as "large sums constitute money laundering." Lin's colleague replied: "can barely buy an AK47 with 600 bucks." And with regard to certain Binance customers, including customers from Russia, Lim acknowledged in a February 2020 chat: "Like come on. They are here for crime.". Binance MLRO agreed that "we see the bad, but we close 2 eyes." Yes, that all seems pretty horrible to me. [0] https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640379218461589506 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640379218461589506
- notch898a 4y ago
  Is it illegal for me to sell gas to gang bangers in the ghetto? When is it a crime to knowingly be selling to criminals? Everyone knows there are customers in Russia, and in Camden NJ, there for crime. You know with 100% certainty when you run a gas station in a bad part of town you directly are selling to aid people to commit felonies. Hell even the road crews know when they build the interstate, they are there to amongst other things to build the road that facilitates money laundering (and indeed they take no action to stop it).
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > is it a crime to knowingly be selling to criminals Yes. At a minimum, it's aiding and abetting [1]. What's going on here looks like terrorist financing and willful sanctions evasion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting#cite_note-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting#cite_note-...
    - notch898a 4y ago
      In that case they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations. Those people know with certainty they are providing for criminals, and they do nothing to stop it.
      - 4y ago
perihelions 4y ago
There's a *world* of difference between "We will vigorously defend our clients' legal and procedural rights" and "Our 'smart' criminal clients will understand our 'hints' and 'run'".

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

That whole thread is gold. Molly White is truly doing the Lord's work: > Rule 1: If you're going to do crimes, don't put them in writing. > Rule 2: If you're going to put them in writing, don't write them in "I CAN HAZ CHEEZEBURGER" style writing, it's embarrassing. https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386

tehwebguy 4y ago
Getting dangerously close to the ITYSL insider trading sketch
- throwanem 4y ago
  Oh, no. This is a lot funnier.
x0x0 4y ago
Holy shit, it just keeps going > according to Lim, Binance purposely engaged a compliance auditor that would "just do a half assed individual sub audit on geo[fencing]" to "buy us more time." As part of this audit, the Binance employee who held the title of Money Laundering Reporting Officer ("MLRO") lamented that she "need[ed] to write a fake annual MLRO report to Binance board of directors wtf." [1] By the time you write "fake annual MLRO report" in text, you're about to be a one-person retirement plan for some attorneys. [1] https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386 https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1640378422483472386
- Arrath 4y ago
  > By the time you write "fake annual MLRO report" in text, you're about to be a one-person retirement plan for some attorneys. How does the simple act of typing that out in a message not trigger the slightest moment of pause, self reflection and, perhaps, self preservation? Good lord.
  - omegaworks 4y ago

arcticbull 4y ago

They also extensively documented their set-up for avoiding compliance in the Tai Chi Document. [1] They seem not to have learned the lessons from The Wire about "taking notes a criminal conspiracy." [edit] Oh man I wonder if we're going to find out where ex-Binance US CEO Catherine Coley has been hiding all these years. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...

quickthrowman 4y ago
Context clip from The Wire: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheWireStripped/status/1164385139008258048 https://mobile.twitter.com/TheWireStripped/status/1164385139... (He was taking notes because they’re following Robert’s Rules of Order, lol)

AndrewKemendo 4y ago

The idea that these people are more intelligent than everyone else has to be a joke at this point It really comes down to who is willing to take the most risk on behalf of investors Watch: This CEO will come back in a few years with another scheme that is backed by millions in venture money, just like Kalanick

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Watch: This CEO will come back in a few years with another scheme If some of these allegations [1] are credible, he and everyone in his orbit are going to jail. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35329117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35329117
- chatmasta 4y ago
  I doubt you'll see CZ in any country with a US extradition treaty any time soon.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > doubt you'll see CZ in any country with a US extradition treaty If he's financing terrorism, a broad extradition treaty goes from being a blocker to a diplomatic hurdle. (To be clear, I'm not suggesting kidnapping. Governments can negotiate one-off extraditions for high-value targets.) It also appears he was knowingly financing Hamas and Russia, which makes the list of potential enemies (and people who would prefer him dead to compromised) substantial.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      And when you’re dealing with entities like that they just might decide to save everyone the expense of a trial.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        He'll probably want to stay away from high-floor windows.

potatolicious 4y ago

I can't decide if these people put all of it is in writing because they were stupid or because they felt total and utter impunity that there would ever be consequences. The impunity seems like a general theme with everyone involved with crypto - just flagrant wrongdoing in broad daylight. But considering that flagrant wrongdoing in VC-land continues to result in no severe consequences (see: Kalanick, Neumann) I guess maybe we're the suckers.

deltree7 4y ago
Kalanick or Neumann did nothing wrong
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> impunity seems like a general theme with everyone involved with crypto Something is off with these folks' sense of risk. Let's put aside the illegality. By laundering for Hamas and Russian criminals, Binance's leadership has put itself on the wrong side of the United States, Israel, the Gulf monarchies and the entirety of fucking NATO. At the same time, there are powerful people in Moscow, Tehran and Beirut who would rather see them dead than captured. > flagrant wrongdoing in VC-land continues to result in no severe consequences (see: Kalanick, Neumann) Kalanick and Neumann didn't steal money or finance terrorists. The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level. This is Binance, just one of many crypto exchanges. Basically a bank with a different name. Separate from cryptocurrencies themselves.
- from 4y ago
  Russian criminals use Binance accounts (and actually every exchange, including Coinbase) registered in the names of jobless 25 year old women from CIS countries. You can buy these accounts on basically any gray market forum with a marketplace section including sites like exploit.in or even forums used by 15 year olds like mpgh and ogusers. I am doubtful that a Binance customer data leak would have anywhere near as many interesting people as say the Credit Suisse leaks. It's also curious that there was no mention of blockchain analysis anywhere in the complaint or even an attempt to quantify the amount of criminal funds on Binance and the complaint instead relies solely on a handful of excerpted chat logs to show compliance failings (the CFTC is obviously not going to mention all the times they ended up blocking the bad accounts). They also don't even list any specific Hamas transactions or say that Binance knowingly processed them. > Kalanick and Neumann didn't steal money or finance terrorists. The wrongdoing in crypto/web3 is on another level. Not VC but ever hear of Marc Rich? He was ultimately pardoned after being accused of evading 8 figures (in 1983 dollars) of taxes, trading with Iraq, Iran during the hostage crisis, the USSR during the grain embargo, and South Africa during Apartheid [0]. He lived in Switzerland just fine for a couple decades and the only trouble he ever faced was attempted kidnapping by American law enforcement [1]. He paved the way for the awesome company we now know as Glencore. 0. https://www.congress.gov/event/107th-congress/house-event/LC16485/text https://www.congress.gov/event/107th-congress/house-event/LC... 1. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-king-of-oil--discloses-his--secret-lives-/7657620 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-king-of-oil--discloses-his--se...