14 ms·

US Police raids home; sues homeowner over CCTV footage of raid

126 points by s5300 4y ago

s5300 4y ago
Reason I’m posting this is because the raid itself earlier got attention on HN in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34293904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34293904 Insert “we are not a police state” <here> Potential suggested discussion: what are best practices in law-enforcement-proofing (think local/state police, not feds) our home security recording setups? Somewhere towards the beginning of our video police can be seen physically covering an outside camera, & towards the end they’re seen physically disconnecting the entire setup (to the best of my knowledge) So, at this point the best thing is cameras hiding in plain sight? Stealthily integrated into furniture? Idk. p.s. - this happened extremely close to my childhood home & where I spent most of my life.
- biomcgary 4y ago
  From this situation, I would conclude that you have nothing to hide unless you are guilty or a law enforcement officer, so I would suggest covering the property with camera's pointed at other cameras. Also, lots of dummy cameras, so that you forget which cameras are real and just go on about your non-private business (which is all of it).
olliej 4y ago
So police make up “justification” for a warrant, the violent armed invasion of his home turns up nothing because they made it up the reason for the warrant. Now they’re saying his making a video with their faces in it is making their jobs harder. Like dude you made your jobs harder when you commit perjury to get a warrant. You make your jobs harder when you smash down the victims door and swarm his home with guns. If the cops didn’t want to be famous for violating other people’s rights maybe they should stop violating people’s rights?
- omgwtf1000 4y ago
  The raid cost this guy real money, breaking in his door and damaging who knows what. I hope he makes a ton of money from this ordeal.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    The sheriffs also came up short on the money they seized.
    - ou8_1_2 4y ago
      This is the part that blew my mind... As I heard things, they left an evidence collection receipt that said, for instance "We confiscated $4800 from your house". But then when they returned his belonging, there was only $4400 (or whatever amount), and they're claim is "oh we miscounted. The receipt is wrong." That's not how receipts work Cletus.
  - olliej 4y ago
    Better yet, US courts have found that the government or agencies involved in searches are explicitly not liable for any damage as long as the warrant is "valid". "cool".
- infamouscow 4y ago
  At the same accord, cops protecting the rights of the people ought to be championed as the paragons.
  - krapp 4y ago
    Cops don't protect the rights of the people, lawyers and judges do. Police have no duty to protect the public, their job is to enforce compliance with the law and protect the state's monopoly on violence. And even if they did, they shouldn't get special kudos just for just doing their job. They get their paycheck and pension and all the free donuts and coffee they want, that's enough.
glonq 4y ago
I thought that HN discouraged hyperbolic/clickbaity/deceptive titles. "Homeowner" is a celeb [Afroman] and the "CCTV footage" was published in social media and in music videos without their consent.
- eat 4y ago
  I'm curious to know why you believe these additional details make the headline deceptive or change the story in any way.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  Headline is factual on all accounts
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- berry_sortoro 4y ago
  [dead]
- ChickenNugger 4y ago
  HN is exactly as wildly biased as all the other big tech sites. It pretends to be unbiased but it's not. You'll be flagged/banned for pointing this out.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    What is the alleged bias? Anti-cop? Anti-home invaders?
    - ChickenNugger 4y ago
      https://i.imgur.com/Si183zE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Si183zE.jpg
      - Fatnino 4y ago
        Sure. Big tech is in California. California leans hard left. Ergo employees at big tech lean hard left. That bias still has nothing to do with this thread. Did you just bring it up on a whim?
TheGigaChad 4y ago
[dead]
jgsghcxs 4y ago
unfortunately the sequela here will probably cops wearing black face masks that cover their entire faces. Sucks all around. And it’s entirely plausible most the cops were acting in good faith. They’ve got a hard job.
- lewdev 4y ago
  It's real tough conjuring a false warrant, miscounting money, breaking into a home with guns, terrorizing a home, disconnecting a security system, and eyeballing a lemon pound cake. It's more plausible that they never thought they'd get caught.
ChickenNugger 4y ago
>The complaint says Foreman also “created dozens of videos and images of Plaintiffs’ personas and posted them on various social media platforms including Facebook, YouTube, Snap Chat, TicTok and Instagram.” HN title is wildly misleading.
- asveikau 4y ago
  I don't think so. The HN title accurately describes two events that occurred. The most easily misinterpreted part of the headline to me is it says "US police" making it sound federal. It's a county sheriff's office in Ohio.
  - uakievsa 4y ago
    [dead]
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  That is just additional information that didn’t make it to the headline. Other facts not included in the title is that the cops took his money and didn’t give it all back. Instead their review stated that they miscounted the money when it came in…
  - djbusby 4y ago
    We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong. System is totally broken.
  - ChickenNugger 4y ago
    They're not suing him over the footage. They're suing him for publishing it all over the place in an attempt to monetize it. You don't have to be on the cops' side to see that the headline is ridiculously misleading.
    - ok_dad 4y ago
      So? He filmed it in his own home. What rights should he have over footage from his own private space when others invade that space without invitation? Should a store or homeowner have to get permission from criminals who rob them to show that footage publicly?
reset-password 4y ago
Since the issue looks to be the consent of the footage being released, would it be the same situation if the footage came from their body cams requested by FOIA? Provided all of their cams didn't simultaneously and mysteriously malfunction of course. Either way I hope things go Afroman's way on this. The raid itself was complete clown shoes.
- GravitasFailure 4y ago
  They have no claim. Irizarry vs Yehia[0], among others, have concluded that filming a public servant in the execution of their duties have no right to privacy. There was another case that came to the same conclusion because a woman recorded cops wrecking her house during a search and then tried deleting the footage from her laptop, unfortunately I cannot find that case again. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2022/07/24/first-amendment-protects-the-right-to-film-cops-federal-court-reaffirms/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2022/07/24/first-am... (includes a link to the ruling directly from the 10th circuit website)
rfwhyte 4y ago
If there's one thing police can't stand it's being held accountable for their own actions. If the cops break into your house based on completely fabricated charges, destroy a bunch of your property and traumatize your family, at least from where I'm sitting, it kind of feels like it should be your right to record and disseminate footage of the illegal home invasion however you like.
- ultrarunner 4y ago
  I wonder if this is (at least in part) just process-is-the-punishment.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  End qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture, and the all-too-frequent killings.
  - adfm 4y ago
    This is the third HN thread on this I’ve come across today. Someone else mentioned that a good deterrent for this form of abuse of power is to take away their pensions if they take part in this kind of fuckery. Defund fascism. Demilitarize the police. Mutual respect will bring you peace.
berry_sortoro 4y ago
[dead]
NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
"US police" ??? Contrary to weird headline, this was Adams County Sheriff's Office, and I know that fact because the Afroman video is still on Heavy Rotation for me.
- effingwewt 4y ago
  Indeed, just saw his remoxed video for the first time yesterday! Love that he's asking them via rap lyrics if they are going to help fix his gate etc since they found nothing, and the first response by them was to sue because it showed them being what we all know that are? I'm more depressed about this planet daily, my cup feels full.
- cafard 4y ago
  Adams County is in the US, and I don't see much wrong with referring to a sheriff's office as "police". Of course, I don't know what audience the headline writer had in mind. "Ohio" might suggest a state agency, and "Adams County" would lead to confusion, since there are several.
  - jakebasile 4y ago
    "US Police" is vague enough to be inaccurate. As written it implies a Federal force since they are direct arms of the US government, while the actual sheriff in question is a county agent. What organization is it referring to? The FBI is a Federal policing force but it's not commonly called the US Police. Is it the Secret Service? The US Postal Inspection Service? The National Park Police? The Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement? I'd expect a better written headline to use "Adams County, Ohio Sheriff" since that is the most accurate form that conveys what agency did the thing in question.
    - dontlaugh 4y ago
      Sheriffs are US police to anyone not in the US. All of the others you list, too. Adam’s county or Ohio mean nothing to me.
chad_strategic 4y ago
I'm not sure what is the worst? 1. Our rights being violated by cops that role play for Seal Team Six USN 2. The music in the Youtube video 3. This headline I'm voting for #1
- orwin 4y ago
  Honeslty? I had to check out the music in the youtube Video, and "Will You Help Me Repair My Door" is freaking hilarious. I just archived it, just in case. I'm now a fan.
  - tstrimple 4y ago
    Don’t miss his breakout single “Lemon Poundcake”.
dmitrygr 4y ago
> The plaintiffs say they’ve been subjected to ridicule by people who saw Foreman’s posts Working as intended
adrianmonk 4y ago
I'm sympathetic to his situation, but he may be in danger of another lawsuit, this one with some merit. Unless he licensed it, he seems to have stolen almost the exact melody from the 1977 song "What a Difference You've Made in My Life"[1]. Here's the Ronnie Milsap version of "What a Difference...": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNI0PylgV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNI0PylgV8 And here's Afroman's "Will You Help Me Repair My Gate": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oponIfu5L3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oponIfu5L3Y --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_Difference_You%27ve_Made_in_My_Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_Difference_You%27ve_Mad...
- fathyb 4y ago
  I believe this would be considered a parody, which doesn't require licensing.
  - adrianmonk 4y ago
    Definitely a good point. I hadn't even considered that it might have been intended that way. Lyrically, it has nothing in common. But I guess on a purely thematic level, he could be sarcastically implying they made a difference in his life. I'm not sure what is required to qualify as a parody, so maybe that's enough. ... EDIT: Based on one article I found, this might be satire (which isn't fair use) rather than parody (which is): https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/parody-vs-satire-in-copyright-law https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/parody-vs-satire-in-copyr...
egberts1 4y ago
I wonder if a sign posted clearly on the door that says: Surveillance underway. Entering this premise means you consent to public domain of its audio/video. No ifs, thens, or buts. will work. IANAL.
mrlonglong 4y ago
Qualified immunity is wrong and should be removed.

126 points by s5300 4y ago

Reason I’m posting this is because the raid itself earlier got attention on HN in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34293904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34293904 Insert “we are not a police state” <here> Potential suggested discussion: what are best practices in law-enforcement-proofing (think local/state police, not feds) our home security recording setups? Somewhere towards the beginning of our video police can be seen physically covering an outside camera, & towards the end they’re seen physically disconnecting the entire setup (to the best of my knowledge) So, at this point the best thing is cameras hiding in plain sight? Stealthily integrated into furniture? Idk. p.s. - this happened extremely close to my childhood home & where I spent most of my life.

biomcgary 4y ago
From this situation, I would conclude that you have nothing to hide unless you are guilty or a law enforcement officer, so I would suggest covering the property with camera's pointed at other cameras. Also, lots of dummy cameras, so that you forget which cameras are real and just go on about your non-private business (which is all of it).

olliej 4y ago

So police make up “justification” for a warrant, the violent armed invasion of his home turns up nothing because they made it up the reason for the warrant. Now they’re saying his making a video with their faces in it is making their jobs harder. Like dude you made your jobs harder when you commit perjury to get a warrant. You make your jobs harder when you smash down the victims door and swarm his home with guns. If the cops didn’t want to be famous for violating other people’s rights maybe they should stop violating people’s rights?

omgwtf1000 4y ago
The raid cost this guy real money, breaking in his door and damaging who knows what. I hope he makes a ton of money from this ordeal.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  The sheriffs also came up short on the money they seized.
  - ou8_1_2 4y ago
    This is the part that blew my mind... As I heard things, they left an evidence collection receipt that said, for instance "We confiscated $4800 from your house". But then when they returned his belonging, there was only $4400 (or whatever amount), and they're claim is "oh we miscounted. The receipt is wrong." That's not how receipts work Cletus.
- olliej 4y ago
  Better yet, US courts have found that the government or agencies involved in searches are explicitly not liable for any damage as long as the warrant is "valid". "cool".
infamouscow 4y ago
At the same accord, cops protecting the rights of the people ought to be championed as the paragons.
- krapp 4y ago
  Cops don't protect the rights of the people, lawyers and judges do. Police have no duty to protect the public, their job is to enforce compliance with the law and protect the state's monopoly on violence. And even if they did, they shouldn't get special kudos just for just doing their job. They get their paycheck and pension and all the free donuts and coffee they want, that's enough.

glonq 4y ago

I thought that HN discouraged hyperbolic/clickbaity/deceptive titles. "Homeowner" is a celeb [Afroman] and the "CCTV footage" was published in social media and in music videos without their consent.

eat 4y ago
I'm curious to know why you believe these additional details make the headline deceptive or change the story in any way.
nickthegreek 4y ago
Headline is factual on all accounts
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
berry_sortoro 4y ago
[dead]
ChickenNugger 4y ago
HN is exactly as wildly biased as all the other big tech sites. It pretends to be unbiased but it's not. You'll be flagged/banned for pointing this out.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  What is the alleged bias? Anti-cop? Anti-home invaders?
  - ChickenNugger 4y ago
    https://i.imgur.com/Si183zE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Si183zE.jpg
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      Sure. Big tech is in California. California leans hard left. Ergo employees at big tech lean hard left. That bias still has nothing to do with this thread. Did you just bring it up on a whim?

TheGigaChad 4y ago

[dead]

jgsghcxs 4y ago

unfortunately the sequela here will probably cops wearing black face masks that cover their entire faces. Sucks all around. And it’s entirely plausible most the cops were acting in good faith. They’ve got a hard job.

lewdev 4y ago
It's real tough conjuring a false warrant, miscounting money, breaking into a home with guns, terrorizing a home, disconnecting a security system, and eyeballing a lemon pound cake. It's more plausible that they never thought they'd get caught.

ChickenNugger 4y ago

>The complaint says Foreman also “created dozens of videos and images of Plaintiffs’ personas and posted them on various social media platforms including Facebook, YouTube, Snap Chat, TicTok and Instagram.” HN title is wildly misleading.

asveikau 4y ago
I don't think so. The HN title accurately describes two events that occurred. The most easily misinterpreted part of the headline to me is it says "US police" making it sound federal. It's a county sheriff's office in Ohio.
- uakievsa 4y ago
  [dead]
nickthegreek 4y ago
That is just additional information that didn’t make it to the headline. Other facts not included in the title is that the cops took his money and didn’t give it all back. Instead their review stated that they miscounted the money when it came in…
- djbusby 4y ago
  We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong. System is totally broken.
- ChickenNugger 4y ago
  They're not suing him over the footage. They're suing him for publishing it all over the place in an attempt to monetize it. You don't have to be on the cops' side to see that the headline is ridiculously misleading.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    So? He filmed it in his own home. What rights should he have over footage from his own private space when others invade that space without invitation? Should a store or homeowner have to get permission from criminals who rob them to show that footage publicly?

reset-password 4y ago

Since the issue looks to be the consent of the footage being released, would it be the same situation if the footage came from their body cams requested by FOIA? Provided all of their cams didn't simultaneously and mysteriously malfunction of course. Either way I hope things go Afroman's way on this. The raid itself was complete clown shoes.

GravitasFailure 4y ago
They have no claim. Irizarry vs Yehia[0], among others, have concluded that filming a public servant in the execution of their duties have no right to privacy. There was another case that came to the same conclusion because a woman recorded cops wrecking her house during a search and then tried deleting the footage from her laptop, unfortunately I cannot find that case again. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2022/07/24/first-amendment-protects-the-right-to-film-cops-federal-court-reaffirms/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2022/07/24/first-am... (includes a link to the ruling directly from the 10th circuit website)

rfwhyte 4y ago

If there's one thing police can't stand it's being held accountable for their own actions. If the cops break into your house based on completely fabricated charges, destroy a bunch of your property and traumatize your family, at least from where I'm sitting, it kind of feels like it should be your right to record and disseminate footage of the illegal home invasion however you like.

ultrarunner 4y ago
I wonder if this is (at least in part) just process-is-the-punishment.
sacnoradhq 4y ago
End qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture, and the all-too-frequent killings.
- adfm 4y ago
  This is the third HN thread on this I’ve come across today. Someone else mentioned that a good deterrent for this form of abuse of power is to take away their pensions if they take part in this kind of fuckery. Defund fascism. Demilitarize the police. Mutual respect will bring you peace.

berry_sortoro 4y ago

[dead]

NoZebra120vClip 4y ago

"US police" ??? Contrary to weird headline, this was Adams County Sheriff's Office, and I know that fact because the Afroman video is still on Heavy Rotation for me.

effingwewt 4y ago
Indeed, just saw his remoxed video for the first time yesterday! Love that he's asking them via rap lyrics if they are going to help fix his gate etc since they found nothing, and the first response by them was to sue because it showed them being what we all know that are? I'm more depressed about this planet daily, my cup feels full.
cafard 4y ago
Adams County is in the US, and I don't see much wrong with referring to a sheriff's office as "police". Of course, I don't know what audience the headline writer had in mind. "Ohio" might suggest a state agency, and "Adams County" would lead to confusion, since there are several.
- jakebasile 4y ago
  "US Police" is vague enough to be inaccurate. As written it implies a Federal force since they are direct arms of the US government, while the actual sheriff in question is a county agent. What organization is it referring to? The FBI is a Federal policing force but it's not commonly called the US Police. Is it the Secret Service? The US Postal Inspection Service? The National Park Police? The Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement? I'd expect a better written headline to use "Adams County, Ohio Sheriff" since that is the most accurate form that conveys what agency did the thing in question.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    Sheriffs are US police to anyone not in the US. All of the others you list, too. Adam’s county or Ohio mean nothing to me.

chad_strategic 4y ago

I'm not sure what is the worst? 1. Our rights being violated by cops that role play for Seal Team Six USN 2. The music in the Youtube video 3. This headline I'm voting for #1

orwin 4y ago
Honeslty? I had to check out the music in the youtube Video, and "Will You Help Me Repair My Door" is freaking hilarious. I just archived it, just in case. I'm now a fan.
- tstrimple 4y ago
  Don’t miss his breakout single “Lemon Poundcake”.

dmitrygr 4y ago

> The plaintiffs say they’ve been subjected to ridicule by people who saw Foreman’s posts Working as intended

adrianmonk 4y ago

I'm sympathetic to his situation, but he may be in danger of another lawsuit, this one with some merit. Unless he licensed it, he seems to have stolen almost the exact melody from the 1977 song "What a Difference You've Made in My Life"[1]. Here's the Ronnie Milsap version of "What a Difference...": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNI0PylgV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNI0PylgV8 And here's Afroman's "Will You Help Me Repair My Gate": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oponIfu5L3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oponIfu5L3Y --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_Difference_You%27ve_Made_in_My_Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_Difference_You%27ve_Mad...

fathyb 4y ago
I believe this would be considered a parody, which doesn't require licensing.
- adrianmonk 4y ago
  Definitely a good point. I hadn't even considered that it might have been intended that way. Lyrically, it has nothing in common. But I guess on a purely thematic level, he could be sarcastically implying they made a difference in his life. I'm not sure what is required to qualify as a parody, so maybe that's enough. ... EDIT: Based on one article I found, this might be satire (which isn't fair use) rather than parody (which is): https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/parody-vs-satire-in-copyright-law https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/parody-vs-satire-in-copyr...

egberts1 4y ago

I wonder if a sign posted clearly on the door that says: Surveillance underway. Entering this premise means you consent to public domain of its audio/video. No ifs, thens, or buts. will work. IANAL.

mrlonglong 4y ago

Qualified immunity is wrong and should be removed.