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Downvotes shall come and that's ok-- but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women. I've had multiple c

Downvotes shall come and that's ok-- but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women. I've had multiple conversations with female friends where they discuss factoring in personal safety and the chance of being bothered while filling gas. It's a captive situation and hard to leave quickly. Aside from the odd request for money, I don't get bothered while filling gas, but that's not true for many many people.

GiorgioG 4y ago
As a man, I’ve had plenty of people come up to me asking for money. I don’t feel any safer being a man in that situation.
- fullstop 4y ago
  It seems impossible to come to this conclusion if you've never been a woman.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ineedasername 4y ago
  Maybe you don’t feel particularly safe, but how do you know that many women don’t feel even less safe than your feelings of being unsafe?
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Do you also fear being sexually assaulted every time you walk to your car in a dark parking garage? Are you often sexually harassed in public spaces? An un-housed person asking you for cash at a gas station doesn't put your experience on par with what women experience every day. I knew the answer in the article was safety before I read it. We live in a society where women feel unsafe in normal situations us men never even consider. Be better.
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    There is a societal stigma against men admitting fear or nervousness, but statistically men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women: https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-...
    - pwinnski 4y ago
      Moving the goalposts from sexual harassment to violent crime doesn't change reality. I don't know any men who fear violent crime every time they step foot out of the house, unless they are actively involved in a lifestyle that tends to violent crime. Most women I know fear sexual harassment and worse every time they step foot out of the house.
      - pseudo0 4y ago
        Violent crime includes sexual assault and rape. And the GP post is a man discussing his experiences with aggressive panhandling, which can escalate into an assault or attempted mugging. My point is that perceptions of risk and societal willingness to acknowledge risk differs between men and women. Men are incentivized to play down risks to their personal safety to save face, while the dynamic is reversed for women. As to how this relates to the overall discussion, I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys.
        pwinnski 4y ago
        > I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys. Talk to more women, I'd say. I have been scared in my life, and I have known many men I would describe as being generally-fearful people, but I have never met any man who spent as much of their life considering physical safety as one of their highest priorities every single day of their lives, and I have talked to many women who describe that feeling in different words. I think it's good to acknowledge that men can be, and sometimes are, scared. But I think you do a disservice to both men and women when you look at "violent crime" stats (skewed heavily by gang activity most of us will never encounter regardless of gender) and believe that men and women are generally equally concerned about safety. That flies in the face of the experiences of nearly everyone, I think. Put another way: there are some neighborhoods in which I would not like to walk alone at night, but I have never once worried about being attacked while walking for exercise in a tony suburb in the afternoon. Any time I've encountered a woman while doing so, they would cross the street, be holding keys in their hands, or both. I don't think I'm a scary-looking guy, but as an unknown man they encountered, even in a tony suburb in the afternoon, concern for their safety prompted them to take action. You don't have to believe me, and I can't convince you. But if you ever listen to women, read women, or even believe the comments you see on this page from women, you might just understand life a little more.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pwinnski 4y ago
  You may not feel safe, but "safer" is a comparison word, and I'm not sure on what basis you claim to feel as unsafe as a woman would in the same situation.
unixgoddess 4y ago
downvotes shall come because this is HN, but that's ok... perhaps it's time to admit that modern western ideals are not compatible with the natural laws embedded in our body by several hundred thousand years of evolution...
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  Oh, because you're horny, you think you have a right to chat up every woman you see in every situation you're in? Time and a place.
  - hirundo 4y ago
    I feel that I have the right to be friendly to every person I see in almost every situation I'm in, including starting to chat with them. If they seem receptive I would feel that I have the right to escalate to flirting ... and then stop if it's not well received. With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places. But if the other person is not friendly and responsive, and you pursue the "chat up" or flirtation anyhow, that's not right regardless of time or place.
    - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
      > With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places. But if collectively, women are saying, no it is not most times and most places, you're in the wrong. Look, it's really simple. If you want a better chance of meeting someone who might be receptive to your flirting, you do it when they're feeling safe and secure.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  Which ideal specifically are you referring to? Also which natural laws? Are their any natural laws or just natural tendencies?
  - unixgoddess 4y ago
nickthegreek 4y ago
Interestingly enough, if a women can charge at home and doesn't do alot of distant driving, they can cut gas stations out of their life completely with an EV along with predatory mechanics during routine maintenance.
- Spivak 4y ago
  That second bit is a criminally underserved market. It's fucking stupid that I have to call one of my guy friends to go to the mechanic with me and pretend to be my boyfriend so I don't get ripped off. If anyone figures out how to align the incentives you'll have a customer base basically immediately.
  - hunter2_ 4y ago
    As a guy who gets attempts at being ripped off by mechanics (unnecessary work coming very highly recommended), my solution was not to somehow introduce more masculinity, but to educate myself by hanging out on forums specific to whatever car I'm driving, and mix a bit of that education into the conversation with the shop, bordering on what could come across as knowledge bragging. For example, while waiting for work to finish, I'll watch a video on something it ostensibly needs and then bring up the fact that I did and might DIY it. Typically the service writer will then be on my side instead of seeing me as a money tree, and the frequency of ridiculous recommended work after that drops to almost nothing. Ymmv and indeed people will write posts on those forums with male salutations for no apparent reason, but otherwise that's where I found the truth.
    - pwinnski 4y ago
      Which is great! You only had to exert a bunch of extra effort, and it sounds like you've enjoyed the results. Now read some stories from women who've also made that extra effort and then some, having more experience and knowledge than the mechanics trying to rip them off, and still being given the runaround more often than not. A shady mechanic will be shady to some degree to everyone to the degree they think they can get away with it. No amount of self-education on the part of women lets them escape the shadiness.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lm28469 4y ago
> but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women A lot of things are different, walking at night alone, going for a run in a secluded place, asking random people for direction/a light/&c, ...
fullstop 4y ago
My wife won't go to certain grocery stores at night because the lighting is poor and she doesn't feel safe.
angmarsbane 4y ago
Whenever people talk about restaurants completely replacing staff with robots/kiosks I get the same safety fears. I wouldn’t stop at a McDonald’s on a road trip if it didn’t have any staff. More people, like staff, equal more social pressure for potential bad players to act appropriately.
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
Does HN just not pay attention? Women get hit on, talked up, harassed, pretty much every place they go. Men seem to think it is their right to do this. So, yeah, women want to feel safe.
- dsq 4y ago
  I don't recall harassing anyone, whether near a charging station or otherwise. Please qualify these sweeping statements. Not “men” in general.
  - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    Okay. Good for you.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hunter2_ 4y ago
    "People who harass certain types of people will harass those people" just doesn't convey much information, so it's not worth saying. Any thoughts on how to best phrase this pattern?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - renewedrebecca 4y ago
    Try to think beyond yourself, just for a bit. If approximately half of the population is at all afraid to exist in public, then maybe your feelings getting hurt about sweeping statements is a little less important in the grand scheme of things. It's called empathy, look it up if you need to.
kube-system 4y ago
In my experience, class and income demographics are more significant in this regard than gender. Even the idea of being "bothered" while filling gas suggests a certain social norm that varies based on which social norms you subscribe to.
beerandt 4y ago
Which is a reason to put them in places where the occupants can get out in a relatively safe place and either be productive (store parking lots) or entertained (zoo). Yet those are where most 1st gen chargers were placed, and are the same places the quoted woman in the article is complaining about. Yes they're less convenient, but so is charging an EV (compared to refueling). Until charging only takes 5-10 mins, the best way to offset inconvenience of time is to place chargers in places where you can multitask.

GiorgioG 4y ago

As a man, I’ve had plenty of people come up to me asking for money. I don’t feel any safer being a man in that situation.

fullstop 4y ago
It seems impossible to come to this conclusion if you've never been a woman.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ineedasername 4y ago
Maybe you don’t feel particularly safe, but how do you know that many women don’t feel even less safe than your feelings of being unsafe?
jeffwask 4y ago
Do you also fear being sexually assaulted every time you walk to your car in a dark parking garage? Are you often sexually harassed in public spaces? An un-housed person asking you for cash at a gas station doesn't put your experience on par with what women experience every day. I knew the answer in the article was safety before I read it. We live in a society where women feel unsafe in normal situations us men never even consider. Be better.
- pseudo0 4y ago
  There is a societal stigma against men admitting fear or nervousness, but statistically men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women: https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-...
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    Moving the goalposts from sexual harassment to violent crime doesn't change reality. I don't know any men who fear violent crime every time they step foot out of the house, unless they are actively involved in a lifestyle that tends to violent crime. Most women I know fear sexual harassment and worse every time they step foot out of the house.
    - pseudo0 4y ago
      Violent crime includes sexual assault and rape. And the GP post is a man discussing his experiences with aggressive panhandling, which can escalate into an assault or attempted mugging. My point is that perceptions of risk and societal willingness to acknowledge risk differs between men and women. Men are incentivized to play down risks to their personal safety to save face, while the dynamic is reversed for women. As to how this relates to the overall discussion, I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys.
      - pwinnski 4y ago
        > I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys. Talk to more women, I'd say. I have been scared in my life, and I have known many men I would describe as being generally-fearful people, but I have never met any man who spent as much of their life considering physical safety as one of their highest priorities every single day of their lives, and I have talked to many women who describe that feeling in different words. I think it's good to acknowledge that men can be, and sometimes are, scared. But I think you do a disservice to both men and women when you look at "violent crime" stats (skewed heavily by gang activity most of us will never encounter regardless of gender) and believe that men and women are generally equally concerned about safety. That flies in the face of the experiences of nearly everyone, I think. Put another way: there are some neighborhoods in which I would not like to walk alone at night, but I have never once worried about being attacked while walking for exercise in a tony suburb in the afternoon. Any time I've encountered a woman while doing so, they would cross the street, be holding keys in their hands, or both. I don't think I'm a scary-looking guy, but as an unknown man they encountered, even in a tony suburb in the afternoon, concern for their safety prompted them to take action. You don't have to believe me, and I can't convince you. But if you ever listen to women, read women, or even believe the comments you see on this page from women, you might just understand life a little more.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pwinnski 4y ago
You may not feel safe, but "safer" is a comparison word, and I'm not sure on what basis you claim to feel as unsafe as a woman would in the same situation.

unixgoddess 4y ago

downvotes shall come because this is HN, but that's ok... perhaps it's time to admit that modern western ideals are not compatible with the natural laws embedded in our body by several hundred thousand years of evolution...

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
Oh, because you're horny, you think you have a right to chat up every woman you see in every situation you're in? Time and a place.
- hirundo 4y ago
  I feel that I have the right to be friendly to every person I see in almost every situation I'm in, including starting to chat with them. If they seem receptive I would feel that I have the right to escalate to flirting ... and then stop if it's not well received. With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places. But if the other person is not friendly and responsive, and you pursue the "chat up" or flirtation anyhow, that's not right regardless of time or place.
  - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    > With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places. But if collectively, women are saying, no it is not most times and most places, you're in the wrong. Look, it's really simple. If you want a better chance of meeting someone who might be receptive to your flirting, you do it when they're feeling safe and secure.
jackmott42 4y ago
Which ideal specifically are you referring to? Also which natural laws? Are their any natural laws or just natural tendencies?
- unixgoddess 4y ago

nickthegreek 4y ago

Interestingly enough, if a women can charge at home and doesn't do alot of distant driving, they can cut gas stations out of their life completely with an EV along with predatory mechanics during routine maintenance.

Spivak 4y ago
That second bit is a criminally underserved market. It's fucking stupid that I have to call one of my guy friends to go to the mechanic with me and pretend to be my boyfriend so I don't get ripped off. If anyone figures out how to align the incentives you'll have a customer base basically immediately.
- hunter2_ 4y ago
  As a guy who gets attempts at being ripped off by mechanics (unnecessary work coming very highly recommended), my solution was not to somehow introduce more masculinity, but to educate myself by hanging out on forums specific to whatever car I'm driving, and mix a bit of that education into the conversation with the shop, bordering on what could come across as knowledge bragging. For example, while waiting for work to finish, I'll watch a video on something it ostensibly needs and then bring up the fact that I did and might DIY it. Typically the service writer will then be on my side instead of seeing me as a money tree, and the frequency of ridiculous recommended work after that drops to almost nothing. Ymmv and indeed people will write posts on those forums with male salutations for no apparent reason, but otherwise that's where I found the truth.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    Which is great! You only had to exert a bunch of extra effort, and it sounds like you've enjoyed the results. Now read some stories from women who've also made that extra effort and then some, having more experience and knowledge than the mechanics trying to rip them off, and still being given the runaround more often than not. A shady mechanic will be shady to some degree to everyone to the degree they think they can get away with it. No amount of self-education on the part of women lets them escape the shadiness.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lm28469 4y ago

> but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women A lot of things are different, walking at night alone, going for a run in a secluded place, asking random people for direction/a light/&c, ...

fullstop 4y ago

My wife won't go to certain grocery stores at night because the lighting is poor and she doesn't feel safe.

angmarsbane 4y ago

Whenever people talk about restaurants completely replacing staff with robots/kiosks I get the same safety fears. I wouldn’t stop at a McDonald’s on a road trip if it didn’t have any staff. More people, like staff, equal more social pressure for potential bad players to act appropriately.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

Does HN just not pay attention? Women get hit on, talked up, harassed, pretty much every place they go. Men seem to think it is their right to do this. So, yeah, women want to feel safe.

dsq 4y ago
I don't recall harassing anyone, whether near a charging station or otherwise. Please qualify these sweeping statements. Not “men” in general.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  Okay. Good for you.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hunter2_ 4y ago
  "People who harass certain types of people will harass those people" just doesn't convey much information, so it's not worth saying. Any thoughts on how to best phrase this pattern?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- renewedrebecca 4y ago
  Try to think beyond yourself, just for a bit. If approximately half of the population is at all afraid to exist in public, then maybe your feelings getting hurt about sweeping statements is a little less important in the grand scheme of things. It's called empathy, look it up if you need to.

kube-system 4y ago

In my experience, class and income demographics are more significant in this regard than gender. Even the idea of being "bothered" while filling gas suggests a certain social norm that varies based on which social norms you subscribe to.

beerandt 4y ago

Which is a reason to put them in places where the occupants can get out in a relatively safe place and either be productive (store parking lots) or entertained (zoo). Yet those are where most 1st gen chargers were placed, and are the same places the quoted woman in the article is complaining about. Yes they're less convenient, but so is charging an EV (compared to refueling). Until charging only takes 5-10 mins, the best way to offset inconvenience of time is to place chargers in places where you can multitask.