5 ms·

Why not just use C# instead? It was purposefully designed to address and correct the many mistakes of Java, and much more importantly, it's not owned by Oracle.

revscat 4y ago
It’s owned by Microsoft. A strong case can be made that this is significantly worse. Screw them both. Use Rust.
- pasc1878 4y ago
  MS worse than Sun yes. MS worse than Oracle, really?
  - retrocryptid 4y ago
    I have been a MSFT customer and an ORCL customer. While both do things to you that cannot be described in polite company, MSFT at least buys you dinner first.
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  > It’s owned by Microsoft It was owned by MS, but the entire .NET ecosystem has since been open-sourced and released with a permissive MIT licence. It is managed by the .NET Foundation[1]. [1]: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/
  - SeanLuke 4y ago
    The MIT license is worth nothing because it does not contain a patent release. Microsoft's sword of damocles has always been in patents they held with regard to C# and .NET. Have they released this IP as well?
    - fsckboy 4y ago
      I'm no defender of Microsoft, but haven't they said "if you don't sue them, they won't sue you type of thing"? also, that doesn't make this code or the license worth nothing.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  Mostly yes, screw them both. But keep in mind that if you are looking for an alternative for Java or C#, Rust is probably not your best choice. Rust is great for code that you would have to write in C or C++, but if you can write it in Java, you probably want something else.
- retrocryptid 4y ago
  Which Rust? They keep changing it. It's like the python of compiled languages.
pkulak 4y ago
It sure doesn't _feel_ like Java is owned by anyone. I pick an open-source JDK to use, install it with my package manager, and I'm off to the races. C# is dripping with Microsoft. Installation takes me to a Microsoft support page, then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash. Gross.
- Joker_vD 4y ago
  > then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash. Gross. That's not exactly Microsoft's unique flavour, lots of open-source projects don't end up in the centrally maintained and approved repositories of your distro of choice and are instead distributed in all kinds of god-forsaken ways. Have you ever tried to install Conda on Linux? Just go and look at its installer, now that is gross.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    And then there's packages that are in distro repos, but are so difficult to build correctly that the developers' advice is to not use the distro package, but instead download a tarball and compile it yourself (despite the user being no less prone to build pitfalls than distro maintainers are). This is how the spaced repetition flash card app Anki is, and it means that getting it up and running on a proprietary OS, which properly built binaries are readily available for, is easier and more consistent.
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  > Installation takes me to a Microsoft support page, then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash Which Microsoft support page are you looking at? The one I copied the below commands from[1] literally just lists these commands. On occasion, an additional repository and Microsoft keys need to be added, but everything else just works™. sudo pacman -S dotnet-sdk sudo apt install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo dnf install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo yum install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo zypper install dotnet-sdk-7.0 And for lolz: winget install Microsoft.DotNet.SDK.7 All work on their respective distros/OSes. Once installed: dotnet new console to create a new console app. Fire up any editor (doesn't need to be Visual Studio Enterprise 2022) and start coding. The only place where installing the .NET SDK is complicated is macOS, but that goes for anything there, honestly. Even getting non-Apple Clang + LLVM on macOS is a pain. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux
kitsunesoba 4y ago
Probably my mostly-Javaless background showing but I've found Kotlin nicer to write than C#. It might actually be .NET that I don't enjoy though, because when you're not particularly familiar with either the line where one begins and the other ends is blurry.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
severino 4y ago
> and much more importantly, it's not owned by Oracle How's any better that it's owned by Microsoft? Furthermore, all of Java is open source. Cannot say the same about dot net, where parts still remain closed source.

revscat 4y ago

It’s owned by Microsoft. A strong case can be made that this is significantly worse. Screw them both. Use Rust.

pasc1878 4y ago
MS worse than Sun yes. MS worse than Oracle, really?
- retrocryptid 4y ago
  I have been a MSFT customer and an ORCL customer. While both do things to you that cannot be described in polite company, MSFT at least buys you dinner first.
delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> It’s owned by Microsoft It was owned by MS, but the entire .NET ecosystem has since been open-sourced and released with a permissive MIT licence. It is managed by the .NET Foundation[1]. [1]: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/
- SeanLuke 4y ago
  The MIT license is worth nothing because it does not contain a patent release. Microsoft's sword of damocles has always been in patents they held with regard to C# and .NET. Have they released this IP as well?
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    I'm no defender of Microsoft, but haven't they said "if you don't sue them, they won't sue you type of thing"? also, that doesn't make this code or the license worth nothing.
marcosdumay 4y ago
Mostly yes, screw them both. But keep in mind that if you are looking for an alternative for Java or C#, Rust is probably not your best choice. Rust is great for code that you would have to write in C or C++, but if you can write it in Java, you probably want something else.
retrocryptid 4y ago
Which Rust? They keep changing it. It's like the python of compiled languages.

pkulak 4y ago

It sure doesn't _feel_ like Java is owned by anyone. I pick an open-source JDK to use, install it with my package manager, and I'm off to the races. C# is dripping with Microsoft. Installation takes me to a Microsoft support page, then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash. Gross.

Joker_vD 4y ago
> then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash. Gross. That's not exactly Microsoft's unique flavour, lots of open-source projects don't end up in the centrally maintained and approved repositories of your distro of choice and are instead distributed in all kinds of god-forsaken ways. Have you ever tried to install Conda on Linux? Just go and look at its installer, now that is gross.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  And then there's packages that are in distro repos, but are so difficult to build correctly that the developers' advice is to not use the distro package, but instead download a tarball and compile it yourself (despite the user being no less prone to build pitfalls than distro maintainers are). This is how the spaced repetition flash card app Anki is, and it means that getting it up and running on a proprietary OS, which properly built binaries are readily available for, is easier and more consistent.
delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> Installation takes me to a Microsoft support page, then I'm installing PPAs and copy-pasting lines of Bash Which Microsoft support page are you looking at? The one I copied the below commands from[1] literally just lists these commands. On occasion, an additional repository and Microsoft keys need to be added, but everything else just works™. sudo pacman -S dotnet-sdk sudo apt install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo dnf install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo yum install dotnet-sdk-7.0 sudo zypper install dotnet-sdk-7.0 And for lolz: winget install Microsoft.DotNet.SDK.7 All work on their respective distros/OSes. Once installed: dotnet new console to create a new console app. Fire up any editor (doesn't need to be Visual Studio Enterprise 2022) and start coding. The only place where installing the .NET SDK is complicated is macOS, but that goes for anything there, honestly. Even getting non-Apple Clang + LLVM on macOS is a pain. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux

kitsunesoba 4y ago

Probably my mostly-Javaless background showing but I've found Kotlin nicer to write than C#. It might actually be .NET that I don't enjoy though, because when you're not particularly familiar with either the line where one begins and the other ends is blurry.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

severino 4y ago

> and much more importantly, it's not owned by Oracle How's any better that it's owned by Microsoft? Furthermore, all of Java is open source. Cannot say the same about dot net, where parts still remain closed source.