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London has really good public transportation and, as this article mentions, lots of people in London do cycle to work (half of all the offices I’ve had in Londo
by hnlmorg 4y ago
London has really good public transportation and, as this article mentions, lots of people in London do cycle to work (half of all the offices I’ve had in London has had an on-premises bicycle “shed”).
In fact I’ve met so many Londoners who never even bothered to learn to drive.
In my experience, it’s generally American cities that require a car rather than European cities. Generally speaking of course, you get good and bad city designs in all countries.
- pjmlp 4y agoEuropean cities only don't require a car for those lucky enough to live in the city center of major capitals. The further away from city suburbs, one might get a lucky 1 bus per hour if at all.
- adrianN 4y agoI lived in the suburbs of a medium sized city. Everything was easily accessible by bike, but of course many people still preferred the convenience of a car. It took about 25 minutes from my apartment to the city center. My wife grew up in the suburbs of an even smaller city. It took about 10 minutes to reach that city center by bike, but almost everybody drove because the road connecting the suburb to the city center feels very unsafe on a bike.
- pjmlp 4y agoTwo anecdotes, plenty of European cities aren't as fortunate, specially in southern countries. Many cities are only city in name, and in practice more towns aspiring to be cities, specially in southern and eastern Europe. Here is one anecdote, Portalegre might be a nice city, as Northen Alentejo capital in Portugal, yet those 20 km on average from the neighbouring villages aren't that nice to do on bycicle specially during Summertime with temperatures up to 45 degrees celsius. And if you're thinking about taking a bus, better save money for a taxi, unless you're willing to spend the whole day in the city, as there is only one bus into each direction connecting the neighbouring villages to the city.
- hnlmorg 4y agoI’ve cited plenty more cities. And could cite more still. Besides, your statement was an absolute so the GP only needed one of example to disprove you yet gave you two.
- pjmlp 4y agoCapital sized cities. There are plenty of cities in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia,... where it doesn't hold. You know, those that people from the cities you listed love to rent cars for their vacations, and enjoy what many locals can't afford.
- hnlmorg 4y agoHow can they rent cars when they don’t have a driving license? And no, they weren’t all capital sized cities. I also don’t understand what vacationing has to do with anything when I was talking about backpackers, nomads and expats. Basically the polar opposite of people who vacation.
- pjmlp 4y agoMany do, even if they don't drive at home. Plenty, it shows not wanting to endure the actual pain locals have with local transport system, if one exists at all.
- hnlmorg 4y ago> Many do, even if they don't drive at home. But this conversation is about people who don’t drive. Not people who do. You’ve warped the discussion so far off it’s original topic that your entire premise here is now just one stupid straw man argument. To get back on topic: nobody is disputing that there are people out there with driving licenses (well durrr!). It was to explain why some people (ie not all) are content without learning to drive.
- hnlmorg 4y agoDepends on the city but generally what you’ve described is completely untrue. Usually European cities try to pedestrianise their centre as much as they can and have all sorts of public transport schemes from Park and Ride to regular underground and overground rail services. I live miles out of from London and get the train in. Almost nobody I work with live in the city and none of them drive in. In fact you wouldnt want to drive in London. This has been true for so many European cities, Cambridge, Chelmsford, York, Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, etc. all are very accessible for non-car owners. Anyone who claims you need a car to live in a European city is someone who hasn’t experienced many European cities ;)
- pjmlp 4y agoYeah, I guess I need to throw away my passport. It is no accident you only listed capital sized cities.
- hnlmorg 4y agoThe first three, so literally half that list, are relatively small cities. Certainly not “capital sized”. I’ve noticed this trend you have of defining things in absolute terms despite the evidence being transparently not. Which I normally make an effort not to reply to your silly comments however on this occasion didn’t check who the commenter was before responding. Which is basically a longwinded way of saying I’m not going to continue on with this absurd exchange any further.
- pjmlp 4y agoMaybe you should actually try to live in a "city" in southern Europe. Just don't pick Lisbon, Porto, Madrid, Barcelona, Rom, Napel, Milano, Athens, Zagreb for the actual experience. Here is a suggestion, country side in the middle of the country, or one of the Mediterrean or Atlantic island.
- hnlmorg 4y agoI live in the countryside now. I’m not oblivious to the benefits of driving. What I’m doing is providing counter arguments to the ridiculous absolutes you’re coming out with. Comments like “only” are simply bullshit. But I suspect that’s intentional behaviour. You don’t want people to agree, you are actively seeking out an argument. Because if you wanted a sensible discussion you’d see that our two points were complimentary rather than contradictory.
- gambiting 4y agoof course, which is why a staggering 1 million of people commute in and out of london every day. But again, I'm just asking how exactly can we address the high price of housing near workplaces in London specifically, if London is already full to the brim and new housing isn't happening not because of regulations or lack of political will - there's just no space to build any more.
- sgu999 4y agoI think the main drives are real estate investments and centralisation... Tokyo doesn't really have these issues in part due to cultural differences but also due to better regulations on urbanism. [] [] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbC5j4pG9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbC5j4pG9w
- soperj 4y agoMove some of the work places.
- nradov 4y agoIt seems so bizarre that an adult would never learn to drive. Like you might not need to drive for daily city life but it really limits your options if you ever want to travel.
- megablast 4y agoBullshit. Traveled all over the world. Lived in 8 different cities. Never needed a car. I am confused what you think you need a car for?? It is such a strange stance. Where have you gone that I can not go? Public transport exists. So do private tour buses.
- Tanjreeve 4y agoThere might be a survivorship bias here. You will have travelled to large cities with public transport because those are the most viable places to go if you can't drive. If you want to go to places that are remote/not got tourist infrastructure with buses (e.g Vietnam et Al) then you'd seem somewhat stuck. TL:DR A lot of the world is not located in metropolitan cities.
- hnlmorg 4y agoI know loads of people who have backpacked around Vietnam without a driving license. Some even consider backpacking a right of passage.
- ausp 4y agoI'm one of the no-license London populace, and travel more frequently than most. I don't find that it has limited me at all. On the occasions when I absolutely need a car instead of the existing options, taxis are available.
- nradov 4y agoThat seems like a very limited perspective. I've been to many places in the world where taxis don't run. Being able to drive is a basic life skill, like knowing how to swim or cook a meal.