4 ms·

I'm curious and asking in good faith, $150k in CA seem to translate to just over $100k take home. Looking at Zillow there seem to be an abundance of places all

I'm curious and asking in good faith, $150k in CA seem to translate to just over $100k take home. Looking at Zillow there seem to be an abundance of places all over the bay area around $2.5k (1bdrm) and $3.5k (2bdrm) which sound not too bad on one and 2 incomes respectively, just like what everyone else is doing, around a third of your income. I don't get why you're assuming one would have commute 2 hours a day. Is transit that bad even if you're close to where you work? I honestly don't get it fully. Don't get me wrong, it sucks and I wish housing was cheaper but I think that's just the way it is now for everybody that has to work in person somewhere. And 25% of your take home income spent on housing isn't too bad at all and that's at the lower end of the spectrum GP is talking about here ($150k-$200k).

tmpz22 4y ago
I've spent most of my career in the Bay - $150k in the Bay Area without child expenses in a single-earner household with the following common lifestyle choices will about break even month-to-month while fully funding a 401k (in the "core" Bay Area - SF, the Peninsula, parts of Oakland/Berkley): Eats out frequently, goes out for drinks occasionally, travels a few times a year, owns a new mid-range car, lives in a modern apartment complex or small home/condo near a downtown area (with a < 30 minute commute). New electronics, big TV, minimal but high quality furniture. Pairing back on those choices you can begin to save every month, but not at a pace to buy a home in a reasonable time frame. On dual income assuming consistent earnings YoY you can start to buy a house in a cheaper neighborhood later in life, around the time many are starting to have kids. I have to imagine kids can put a 5-10 year delay on buying a house without various kinds of assistance.
- closeparen 4y ago
  > Pairing back on those choices you can begin to save every month, but not at a pace to buy a home in a reasonable time frame. That’s what I’m saying. > On dual income assuming consistent earnings YoY you can start to buy a house in a cheaper neighborhood later in life, around the time many are starting to have kids. Dual tech income folks are in a great spot, but with gender ratios as they are, there can’t be very many such couples. Also this could be a function of social circle but I find many women (even in tech) expect a husband to provide for them while the kids are young.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
If you have a family, those might not fit. If you have a mortgage, your costs won't go down if you lose your job, you can't easily change things.
rckclmbr 4y ago
[deleted]
- laidoffamazon 4y ago
  No, you don't. Expensive activities aren't necessary when you have kids. Do you really think people aren't raising kids in SF?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - closeparen 4y ago
    SF leads the US in childlessness. https://sfist.com/2022/05/24/sf-still-the-most-childless-city-in-u-s-new-map-breaks-down-childlessness-by-neighborhood/ https://sfist.com/2022/05/24/sf-still-the-most-childless-cit...
  - rckclmbr 4y ago
    [deleted]
    - laidoffamazon 4y ago
      I don't have kids and won't have kids, but I definitely didn't have those things growing up in a suburb. It's not at all required unless you're homeschooling. This is a case of lifestyle inflation and then complaining about lifestyle inflation. Public school is good enough, your kids aren't better than the rest of the people in SF.
      - rckclmbr 4y ago
        [deleted]
        laidoffamazon 4y ago
        > But I also live in the bay area now, and have kids, and can confidently say that it's a different experience for kids than what you are talking about. The different experience is that you make more than your parents did at your age and thus have lifestyle inflation.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Agreed, you can buy a good 2000 sqft house on a 1/4 acre within 1 hour of the peninsula on 150k. I did it last year. My wife is just starting a bootcamp + software career and we will be quite happy and comfortable if she brings in an extra 75k/yr.
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  Interest rates have increased quite a bit. What city has 1/4 acre lots? (11000 sq ft (1020 m^2))
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    For larger lots you generally wont be looking at city centers unless you are rich, but almost all bay area cities have larger lots on the outskirts or adjacent areas. It is all a matter of tradeoffs and the level of urbanization you want. I cant walk to a bar or music venue, but I can still walk to a grocery store and a smaller number of restraints. Interest rates are up, but property prices are down quite a bit (my house is down about 15%). While last year may have been better, I think is a still a decent market if you have a few 100k saved from a 150k salary, better if you saved more.
- closeparen 4y ago
  Adjacent Peninsula cities are barely within an hour of each other at commute time. Where are you talking about?
  - mateo411 4y ago
    It's not that bad, those cities aren't very large geographically. I think the parent commenter might be eating a lot of garlic since his move. :)
    - 8note 4y ago
      Is eating a lot of garlic a euphemism for something?
closeparen 4y ago
It’s more than enough to rent, which is fine for folks just starting out, mid-late 20s getting their first promotions, or those who plan to move back to LCOL when they are done saving up. It’s less fine as a terminal level for someone at a homeownership/family stage of life.
geodel 4y ago
Well, when I first came to US, I lived like first 8-9 years without a mattress. I found carpeted floors and 2 comforters more than enough comfy setup. I also stayed with people who had to buy a mattress before spending first night in apartment. Point being whats luxury living for one could be basic, minimum living standard for others. And I am talking about people doing roughly same IT type jobs. So that below living wage of 150K in bay area is from that school of thought where having single family home, 2 car garage, a bit of front/backyard and 30 min leisurely commute by personal car is basic minimum standard of living. To be clear my spouse would also consider this as basic things despite spending far fewer years than me in US. And after decade and half in US I still think these facilities/perks are matter of great fortune that I ended up with and not just oh everyone has it type.
- closeparen 4y ago
  The point is less what's a "basic minimum" or what you "deserve" but what your alternatives are. The US is big. The vast majority of its regions are less insane than the Bay Area. All of them employ skilled-with-computers people to some degree. And in most of them, even lower-status and lower-paying computer jobs would support a comfortable house in a decent school district much better than these kinds of jobs would in the Bay Area. The reason FAANG has historically had to offer $300-500k is because that's what it takes to entice people away from those lives into this housing market. Housing prices are down a bit, but not that much.

tmpz22 4y ago

I've spent most of my career in the Bay - $150k in the Bay Area without child expenses in a single-earner household with the following common lifestyle choices will about break even month-to-month while fully funding a 401k (in the "core" Bay Area - SF, the Peninsula, parts of Oakland/Berkley): Eats out frequently, goes out for drinks occasionally, travels a few times a year, owns a new mid-range car, lives in a modern apartment complex or small home/condo near a downtown area (with a < 30 minute commute). New electronics, big TV, minimal but high quality furniture. Pairing back on those choices you can begin to save every month, but not at a pace to buy a home in a reasonable time frame. On dual income assuming consistent earnings YoY you can start to buy a house in a cheaper neighborhood later in life, around the time many are starting to have kids. I have to imagine kids can put a 5-10 year delay on buying a house without various kinds of assistance.

closeparen 4y ago
> Pairing back on those choices you can begin to save every month, but not at a pace to buy a home in a reasonable time frame. That’s what I’m saying. > On dual income assuming consistent earnings YoY you can start to buy a house in a cheaper neighborhood later in life, around the time many are starting to have kids. Dual tech income folks are in a great spot, but with gender ratios as they are, there can’t be very many such couples. Also this could be a function of social circle but I find many women (even in tech) expect a husband to provide for them while the kids are young.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

If you have a family, those might not fit. If you have a mortgage, your costs won't go down if you lose your job, you can't easily change things.

rckclmbr 4y ago

[deleted]

laidoffamazon 4y ago
No, you don't. Expensive activities aren't necessary when you have kids. Do you really think people aren't raising kids in SF?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- closeparen 4y ago
  SF leads the US in childlessness. https://sfist.com/2022/05/24/sf-still-the-most-childless-city-in-u-s-new-map-breaks-down-childlessness-by-neighborhood/ https://sfist.com/2022/05/24/sf-still-the-most-childless-cit...
- rckclmbr 4y ago
  [deleted]
  - laidoffamazon 4y ago
    I don't have kids and won't have kids, but I definitely didn't have those things growing up in a suburb. It's not at all required unless you're homeschooling. This is a case of lifestyle inflation and then complaining about lifestyle inflation. Public school is good enough, your kids aren't better than the rest of the people in SF.
    - rckclmbr 4y ago
      [deleted]
      - laidoffamazon 4y ago
        > But I also live in the bay area now, and have kids, and can confidently say that it's a different experience for kids than what you are talking about. The different experience is that you make more than your parents did at your age and thus have lifestyle inflation.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

Agreed, you can buy a good 2000 sqft house on a 1/4 acre within 1 hour of the peninsula on 150k. I did it last year. My wife is just starting a bootcamp + software career and we will be quite happy and comfortable if she brings in an extra 75k/yr.

Tempest1981 4y ago
Interest rates have increased quite a bit. What city has 1/4 acre lots? (11000 sq ft (1020 m^2))
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  For larger lots you generally wont be looking at city centers unless you are rich, but almost all bay area cities have larger lots on the outskirts or adjacent areas. It is all a matter of tradeoffs and the level of urbanization you want. I cant walk to a bar or music venue, but I can still walk to a grocery store and a smaller number of restraints. Interest rates are up, but property prices are down quite a bit (my house is down about 15%). While last year may have been better, I think is a still a decent market if you have a few 100k saved from a 150k salary, better if you saved more.
closeparen 4y ago
Adjacent Peninsula cities are barely within an hour of each other at commute time. Where are you talking about?
- mateo411 4y ago
  It's not that bad, those cities aren't very large geographically. I think the parent commenter might be eating a lot of garlic since his move. :)
  - 8note 4y ago
    Is eating a lot of garlic a euphemism for something?

closeparen 4y ago

It’s more than enough to rent, which is fine for folks just starting out, mid-late 20s getting their first promotions, or those who plan to move back to LCOL when they are done saving up. It’s less fine as a terminal level for someone at a homeownership/family stage of life.

geodel 4y ago

Well, when I first came to US, I lived like first 8-9 years without a mattress. I found carpeted floors and 2 comforters more than enough comfy setup. I also stayed with people who had to buy a mattress before spending first night in apartment. Point being whats luxury living for one could be basic, minimum living standard for others. And I am talking about people doing roughly same IT type jobs. So that below living wage of 150K in bay area is from that school of thought where having single family home, 2 car garage, a bit of front/backyard and 30 min leisurely commute by personal car is basic minimum standard of living. To be clear my spouse would also consider this as basic things despite spending far fewer years than me in US. And after decade and half in US I still think these facilities/perks are matter of great fortune that I ended up with and not just oh everyone has it type.

closeparen 4y ago
The point is less what's a "basic minimum" or what you "deserve" but what your alternatives are. The US is big. The vast majority of its regions are less insane than the Bay Area. All of them employ skilled-with-computers people to some degree. And in most of them, even lower-status and lower-paying computer jobs would support a comfortable house in a decent school district much better than these kinds of jobs would in the Bay Area. The reason FAANG has historically had to offer $300-500k is because that's what it takes to entice people away from those lives into this housing market. Housing prices are down a bit, but not that much.