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I would celebrate if this happened naturally, but this seems more a case of if you punish driving enough you get less drivers. When I was in London over a deca

I would celebrate if this happened naturally, but this seems more a case of if you punish driving enough you get less drivers. When I was in London over a decade ago they already had restrictions on car traffic into certain parts of the city and additional fees to go there. Tax on a new car is 20% and lots of regulations on their characteristics. Large taxes on petrol which is already much more expensive than in the US.

Xylakant 4y ago
Nothing about traffic allocation is „naturally“. Building roads is a decision. Allocating space for cars, bicycles, pedestrians is a decision. Making driving a car cheap is a decision. Discouraging driving by increasing costs is a decision. Reducing car traffic by restricting use is a decision. It’s decisions all the way down. The question is „What is the outcome we want and what‘s the road to get there.“
alamortsubite 4y ago
There's nothing natural about cars, nor the many negative externalities that are associated with them.
dabeeeenster 4y ago
"Tax on a new car is 20%" UK sales tax IS 20 for almost all goods! Why is this a reason? Can't think what other "regulations" there are in their characteristics other than emmissions?
- seszett 4y ago
  That's an average VAT rate for Europe.
- vultour 4y ago
  Large parts of Europe have VAT around 20%.
jwhiles 4y ago
I used to walk everywhere in the middle of the road but then they started punishing me for it :(
giraffe_lady 4y ago
You could certainly view car-centric infrastructure as punishing cyclists if you wanted to.
Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
> Large taxes on petrol which is already much more expensive than in the US. Oil is the most subsidised industry in America. Oil is more expensive pretty much everywhere but Saudi Arabia where you can get it by kicking about the sand. Despite all the restrictions London has placed, it is still the most gridlocked city in the planet, with the lowest traffic movement. London has too many people, and too many cars despite its incredible public transport options. On of the main reasons is that it is not a very tall city, low density means sprawl, means lots of cars. Replace a lot of the Zone 1 2 floor flats with a garden for a 10 story multi family house and suddenly car useage would plummet.
Jochim 4y ago
What's natural about the provision of tens of thousands of parking spaces, dedicated carriageways, tunnels, bridges, signalling infrastructure etc.?
crote 4y ago
People have lived in the area now known as London for over 6000 years, and London has been a city for nearly 2000 years. It has grown very naturally. Cars are the recent addition, and they are being restricted because they were causing issues. The alternative is bulldozing the city for some highways, which does not really sound very natural to me.
Zigurd 4y ago
I live in the Boston exurbs. There used to be two passenger rail stations on a Boston & Maine RR line back when the town consisted almost entirely of farms. Cars killed those services. Nothing about that was "natural." Cars need to be contained to uses where they are strictly needed in order for such services to come back. With work-at-home as a new norm there is much less need for commuting. With delivery there is much less need to drive from store to store on shopping trips. The American "geography of nowhere" is a blight to be eradicated.
xsmasher 4y ago
You say "punish driving," I say "make drivers pay for the externalities they cause." If you don't, you get the tragedy of the commons.

Xylakant 4y ago

Nothing about traffic allocation is „naturally“. Building roads is a decision. Allocating space for cars, bicycles, pedestrians is a decision. Making driving a car cheap is a decision. Discouraging driving by increasing costs is a decision. Reducing car traffic by restricting use is a decision. It’s decisions all the way down. The question is „What is the outcome we want and what‘s the road to get there.“

alamortsubite 4y ago

There's nothing natural about cars, nor the many negative externalities that are associated with them.

dabeeeenster 4y ago

"Tax on a new car is 20%" UK sales tax IS 20 for almost all goods! Why is this a reason? Can't think what other "regulations" there are in their characteristics other than emmissions?

seszett 4y ago
That's an average VAT rate for Europe.
vultour 4y ago
Large parts of Europe have VAT around 20%.

jwhiles 4y ago

I used to walk everywhere in the middle of the road but then they started punishing me for it :(

giraffe_lady 4y ago

You could certainly view car-centric infrastructure as punishing cyclists if you wanted to.

Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago

> Large taxes on petrol which is already much more expensive than in the US. Oil is the most subsidised industry in America. Oil is more expensive pretty much everywhere but Saudi Arabia where you can get it by kicking about the sand. Despite all the restrictions London has placed, it is still the most gridlocked city in the planet, with the lowest traffic movement. London has too many people, and too many cars despite its incredible public transport options. On of the main reasons is that it is not a very tall city, low density means sprawl, means lots of cars. Replace a lot of the Zone 1 2 floor flats with a garden for a 10 story multi family house and suddenly car useage would plummet.

Jochim 4y ago

What's natural about the provision of tens of thousands of parking spaces, dedicated carriageways, tunnels, bridges, signalling infrastructure etc.?

crote 4y ago

People have lived in the area now known as London for over 6000 years, and London has been a city for nearly 2000 years. It has grown very naturally. Cars are the recent addition, and they are being restricted because they were causing issues. The alternative is bulldozing the city for some highways, which does not really sound very natural to me.

Zigurd 4y ago

I live in the Boston exurbs. There used to be two passenger rail stations on a Boston & Maine RR line back when the town consisted almost entirely of farms. Cars killed those services. Nothing about that was "natural." Cars need to be contained to uses where they are strictly needed in order for such services to come back. With work-at-home as a new norm there is much less need for commuting. With delivery there is much less need to drive from store to store on shopping trips. The American "geography of nowhere" is a blight to be eradicated.

xsmasher 4y ago

You say "punish driving," I say "make drivers pay for the externalities they cause." If you don't, you get the tragedy of the commons.