14 ms·

Altstore: Home for apps that push the boundaries of iOS

333 points by behnamoh 4y ago

mikepurvis 4y ago
Is it basically signing per user developer builds or something? EDIT: Ah yes, the readme explains: https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore#altstore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore#altstore
- alex_suzuki 4y ago
  Huh. Used to be an Apple Developer program subscription was required to sign anything running on a physical device. Seems to no longer be the case? Or does the Configuration Profile installation allow running code signed with some self-signed certificate?
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    A free developer account has been able to do this for a long time now. It’s just meant for hobby development, so it does come with the limitation the install only works for a short while, this program attempts to work around that by reinstalling the app periodically.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Also, limited number of applications you can have at any one time.
throwanem 4y ago
One question not obviously answered on the site: What's on here to make it worth the trouble?
- codetheweb 4y ago
  The main thing is Delta, an excellent game emulator: https://github.com/rileytestut/Delta https://github.com/rileytestut/Delta
  - sedatk 4y ago
    Actually, it's why AltStore was written.
    - thih9 4y ago
      Is console emulation on a smartphone a good user experience? I’d love to hear more from someone who does that. I’m worried about battery drain, lack of hardware keys (or the need to carry a gamepad) as well as being interrupted by notifications. I’m likely spoiled by nintendo switch; and there are also dedicated console emulation devices, they seem interesting too.
      - domh 4y ago
        I recently replayed most of Pokemon Fire Red in RetroArch on my android phone (installed via f-droid). It worked surprisingly well! I only stopped because I bought a dedicated device to do so (Anbernic RG35XX, which is also fantastic). So in a pinch, console emulation on a smartphone, especially for older consoles like Gameboy Advance, works very well. To get around the on-screen buttons, I ended up connecting my ps5 controller via Bluetooth which worked amazingly straight out of the box with zero configuration.
      - pohuing 4y ago
        I can play Wind Waker on my Pixel 4a, a mid level phone from a couple years ago. I imagine if apple could be arsed to open their stupid ban on jits you could emulate switch titles without a hitch on iPhones. You probably still want a game pad for any 3d titles tho, on Gameboy on screen inputs are fine but the lack of precision can be really annoying to get over. Fortunately the xbox controllers work out of the box with dolphin.
        kaba0 4y ago
        AltStore has an option to (temporarily) enable JITs on a per app basis. JIT is not disabled on the hardware level, safari does use it for JS for example. Just ordinary AppStore apps can’t do so. Also, in my experience with Delta playing some of the Pokemon games, I noticed no difference between the non-JIT and JIT-ted versions.
- WirelessGigabit 4y ago
  Basically any app that is not allowed in the app store because it uses internal APIs, or does things not allowed by Apple. For example a PornHub viewer. Would never be allowed. Or a torrent manager.
  - runjake 4y ago
    There were literally only a few apps I could see listed amongst AltStore sources I saw. Where else are you finding all these apps you seem to be alluding to?
    - daveidol 4y ago
      Check out https://iosninja.io/ipa-library https://iosninja.io/ipa-library and https://appdb.to https://appdb.to
      - dewey 4y ago
        Based on these the main selling point seems to be pirated apps and content.
        daveidol 4y ago
        That’s certainly one of them. For me it’s more like having browser extensions in your native apps. Ad blocking, feature enhancements, etc. For example: there is no “Instagram Premium” I can even pay for to remove ads. But with this there is. As well as some apps that are just off limits for the App Store, like emulators.
      - runjake 4y ago
        Thanks. I figured I was missing something!
- hedora 4y ago
  This list of other emulators looks promising: https://www.reddit.com/r/AltStore/comments/p4ih1f/my_preferred_emulators_all_loaded_through/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AltStore/comments/p4ih1f/my_preferr... I wonder if there's any chance of getting modern Linux on my M1 iPad at near-native speed.
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    According to https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ UTM.HV.ipa with TrollStore should give you Hypervisor (i.e. native virtualization, not JIT or interpreter) and USB support. I haven't had an M1 iPad to try it out but videos suggest that particular combination is speedy, outside GPU acceleration of course.
    - nug 4y ago
      I have a M1 iPad Pro, running Windows 11 on that Version of UTM. It runs surprisingly well. I was able to use the desktop Version of Photoshop without any Problems (even more demanding filters). I even was able to run rekordbox and connect my DJ Mixer to it so USB also seems to be working great.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  There is an app called UTM which allows running full VMs which could be useful for an iPad with a keyboard.
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    how is performance?
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      If you run an ARM OS in it, the performance is great. If you run an x86 one it’s unusable.
      - easton 4y ago
        That still needs the Virtualization entitlement on iOS which I thought you couldn’t get if you’re outside Apple, unless you’re jailbroken and can work around the signing requirement. Otherwise UTM runs emulating the OS and is slow as Christmas.
        Gigachad 4y ago
        Ah you are probably right, I remembered that being gated behind something but I assumed it was the altstore which was the thing you had to do for full virtualisation.
      - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
        > If you run an ARM OS in it Only arm64/aarch64 operating systems I know are GNU/Linux or Mac OS X. I doubt the iPad is strong enough to run a usable Mac OS X virtual machine, and I don't see a ton of value running either a Linux distribution as CLI ("headless") or with a GUI on an iPad as an app in a window?
        Gigachad 4y ago
        Even the base tier ipad is more powerful than a raspberry pi which is more than enough for a gui linux. The ipad pro contains the same chip as the macbooks and comes with 8gb/16gb ram options. It's more powerful than the average Windows laptop.
- pugworthy 4y ago
  How hard could it be to just post a list of what's available via the service?
  - jhugo 4y ago
    That wouldn't drive installs of the Altstore app, though!
- pugworthy 4y ago
  How hard could it be to just post a list of what's available via the service? Even the lists being shared are pretty vague in terms of app descriptions. Some look downright sketchy. I mean, what exactly is the value prop here?
  - redcitylights 4y ago
    You can sideload any app with this if you can get ahold of the .ipa file.
- patrickk 4y ago
  https://github.com/qnblackcat/uYouPlus https://github.com/qnblackcat/uYouPlus
- favaq 4y ago
  Spotify and YouTube premium for free, in my case.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    So copyright infringement. Really a poor argument against Apples policies. People should upload an app that allows you to bypass the regional limitations on 5ghz WiFi and see what the EU thinks about banning app stores then. Because according to the typical regulator it’s bad when others impose limits, but not when they impose limits.
    - slikrick 4y ago
      copyright infringement doesn't exist in the same form everywhere, I don't think a phone should have a single monopolized app store just to prevent US based copyright infringement.
      - tinus_hn 4y ago
        In other news, the DMCA type rules do not apply to the whole internet and the Berne convention is just a fiction that stands in the way of the glorious EU forcing Apple to open their App Store.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        The free transmission of information should usually triumph over the enforcement of intellectual property. It's a symbol of a healthy democracy, in my opinion.
        tinus_hn 4y ago
        If you want to argue the abolition of copyright that’s fine but it’s revolutionary and not the subject of this thread.
        4y ago
- cvak 4y ago
  For me - KODI , I hate that I have to use files app, and VLC to watch my videos from dropbox, and other sources. And any form of torrent client.
yosito 4y ago
It would be great to be able to browse which apps are available on a webpage without having to set up a local server just to see what's available.
- daveidol 4y ago
  You can get apps from anywhere. There is no one single source, but check out https://iosninja.io/ipa-library https://iosninja.io/ipa-library and https://appdb.to https://appdb.to
bt3 4y ago
What's the cross section of users willing to configure this setup (which requires the Mac app host) that want these "restricted" applications that also do not want to jailbreak their devices? I suppose I am many years removed from the jailbreak scene so it's not clear to me if this represents a viable alternative for the regular user, and/or if Cydia is still functional. The latter of which was very much the defacto "aftermarket" app store.
- redcitylights 4y ago
  This works on Windows, plenty of devices or iOS versions are without a jailbreak, and plenty of users don’t want to jailbreak. It’s not exactly an alternative to Cydia either.
- daveidol 4y ago
  Jail breaking is increasingly difficult if you want any of the new phones or iOS versions. It’s becoming much harder these days. I use this myself and love it. I get native YouTube and Instagram and others with no ads at all. Plus, things like Super Mario 64 running natively for iOS (build from the reverse engineered source port). All on the latest iOS and iPhone models. Never have to worry about an OTA update either.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  As answered in a sibling comment, if you want Delta, or really any decent emulator on iOS, this is basically your only choice. I think Riley envisioned this to be used for other things outside of Delta, but it’s been around for over half a decade now and no other huge, significant driving use cases has been knocking down the AltStore doors. Perhaps that’s a good thing, because Delta has always existed in quasi acceptable territory for Apple, and further attention might force Apple’s hand into killing it entirely. Interestingly it also I think helps Apple argue for the walled garden use case. If walled garden was so bad and people are itching to side load their apps, why aren’t there a shit ton more apps on AltStore? It’s not like Riley wouldn’t welcome other use cases. And I don’t think it’s particularly difficult for either developers or end users to use this workaround. It leads me to believe that really people don’t want sideloaded apps as much as HN would lead us to believe, or there would at least be someone other than Riley using AltStore.
paxys 4y ago
Why put all this effort into something that will be banned by Apple the second it gets popular? They have made it clear plenty of times in the past that personal developer certificates aren't a way to get around app store distribution.
- goranmoomin 4y ago
  This doesn’t use enterprise certificate; it creates a 7-day free developer certificate for each Apple ID, and uses it instead. That’s why there’s a server component in here.
  - paxys 4y ago
    Doesn't matter. Neither way is sanctioned.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      Any user is allowed to use a free developer account, and that account can be used to execute code on your own device. The limitation is that you have to update your apps once a week to keep those apps authorized. Altstore automates that renewal process, so in effect all you have to do is have you device connect to the same WiFi network as your Mac or Windows PC once a week.
    - eviks 4y ago
      It does matter since it affects the probability of a ban
      - ungamedplayer 4y ago
        As far as I can tell, the wind affects the probability of a ban on these systems.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      Agreed. Next up will be 1hr dev certs or god forbid ai detection of “rouge” apps by iOS.
EMIRELADERO 4y ago
The EU's Digital Markets Act will soon either make this a first-class citizen or totally useless.
- gregoriol 4y ago
  High hopes this will happen! Not being able to install some apps just because some Apple person decided is hurting the community: Cydia at it's peak was a huge catalyst for innovation
  - wruza 4y ago
    How did Cydia protect its users from SEOing apps that require unnecessary permissions? If by the fact that it’s a niche store used by only hundreds of people, there’s bad news.
    - gregoriol 4y ago
      I'm not saying it was for everyone. As soon as you used jailbreaks, you opened a big door anyway. But it also allowed many new things to be built that were not allowed on the regular store, and in the end a lot was copied by Apple in later iOS versions as their own. An alternative store with open-source apps, without the opening of the jailbreak and that could be verified by users, would be a good amazing start.
      - alexvoda 4y ago
        In other words, F-Droid but for iOS.
        witheld 4y ago
        F-Droid is lawful good, Cydia was chaotic good
    - wingerlang 4y ago
      Maybe I am misunderstanding you here. But, Cydia had millions upon millions of users, and generated millions in revenue. It didn't protect you at all, it was more of a package manager GUI than a proper store, it just had some repositories where you could upload paid packages. And generally, you wouldn't really install apps from it (with both notable and non-notable exceptions, of course). You would install 'tweaks' which normally were iOS plugins/modifications of various sizes and functionality. They all had root privileges an a lot of it was trust based. I don't think there have been a whole lot of malware distributed in this way.
andrewmunsell 4y ago
I've been using Altstore for a while. I just have a Windows VM on my existing Proxmox server running Altserver and never have to worry about it. My primary use-case is a third party YouTube client that integrates ad blocking and SponsorBlock-- it saves me a huge amount of time and frustration when using YouTube. Why not jailbreak? I want to remain on the latest iOS software, and generally speaking, hardware. Jailbreaking is just not an option for me if I want to stay up to date and I don't want to deal with tethered jailbreaks, which seem to be more common for the latest release versions.
- dewey 4y ago
  > it saves me a huge amount of time and frustration when using YouTube. It doesn't have "sponsor block" but it seems like a lot less of a hassle would be to use YouTube Premium. One of the few subscriptions I think are worth the money.
  - HeavyFeather 4y ago
    I think PiP still doesn’t work in the app for me and sponsors aren’t blocked. I get less value from Premium than just SponsorBlock + YouTube PiP. I just have to deal with 720p videos though
  - adzm 4y ago
    I love YouTube premium but the most frustrating thing is that there is no guest mode. You can go incognito but then there are ads. Which means my recommendations get messed up whenever people visit and play things on the TV!
    - dewey 4y ago
      Doesn't the "Switch Account" feature do exactly that? If I use it I have the "default" YouTube recommendations that are not based on my main account but it still says YouTube Premium on the top and there's no ads.
    - jonny_eh 4y ago
      Try creating a sub-account channel/brand account. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQBLBvY1Pw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQBLBvY1Pw8
cute_boi 4y ago
Altstore is so inconvenient. It generally can't refresh and I have to open mail apps regularly. Also, I have to refresh app every 7 days. I don't understand why it can't automate itself. Also, why don't mozilla release altstore version of firefox that supports ublock. That would be so useful.
- nvarsj 4y ago
  I agree it's inconvenient, but it's limited by Apple's choices. The only alternative really is to go to Android which doesn't have this kind of nonsense. I've already done this for my tablet - sold my iPad Pro and bought a Samsung Tab. Being able to run whatever I want on it makes it actually feel like a personal computing device. iPad is so crippled by iOS/app store limitations it makes the device next to useless for me.
mometsi 4y ago
This blog post by the author provides the backstory: https://rileytestut.com/blog/2020/10/14/thoughts-on-app-store/ https://rileytestut.com/blog/2020/10/14/thoughts-on-app-stor...
v7engine 4y ago
Is there any adblocker app available on altstore? If yes, I am willing to give it a try.
- dewey 4y ago
  For any specifics apps or just for the browser? There's many ad blockers for Safari in the regular app store that I've been using over the years.
- asr1414 4y ago
  brave browser directly on apple app store
dang 4y ago
Related: How AltStore is building a haven for forbidden iPhone apps - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31323321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31323321 - May 2022 (1 comment) AltServer 1.5 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31253588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31253588 - May 2022 (1 comment) AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27568379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27568379 - June 2021 (215 comments) AltStore: An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028786 - Nov 2020 (173 comments) AltStore is an iOS App Store alternative that doesn’t require a jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201810 - Oct 2019 (1 comment) An iOS developer built an alternative App Store for the iPhone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21162548 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21162548 - Oct 2019 (1 comment) Altstore – An alternative iOS app store, no jailbreak required - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21088998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21088998 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore: iOS App Store alternative that doesn’t require jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083828 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore: Alternative iOS app store that doesn't require a jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083092 - Sept 2019 (47 comments) AltStore is an alternative iOS App Store with a built-in Nintendo emulator - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21081639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21081639 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) A home for apps that push the boundaries of iOS. No jailbreak required - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21076155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21076155 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21075818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21075818 - Sept 2019 (1 comment)
netfortius 4y ago
Reading this entire thread makes me wonder why in the world wouldn't people use Android. From Aurora Store, as the safest method, which by-passes Google play locality restrictions, through the likes of F-Droid, all the way to dedicated apk files or site-repositories of such, of course with all verifications carried out, for safety/security reasons, there is an incredible wealth of resources. And I'm not even considering rooting, and/or alternative OS images, to the vendor provided ones.
- netfortius 4y ago
  Following up on this, I realized I may have been harsh on the Apple phone supporters (I've been owning macbookpros since they first put a BSD flavor on these devices, so I am not an Apple "hater"), but - for me - having not paid for an app in ages (lots of iOS apps cost, when on Android are free), getting country local stores (for discounts), transportation, info/access and social contact media apps, throughout the world, via third party store (Apple won't allow my wife's phone to do such, as it is "stuck" on the US locale), network and security specialized apps allowing installs via apk files (not avail in Google or Apple stores), etc., etc. are now critical facilities for me. To each his own, I guess ...
- liberty-DNBWM 4y ago
  This world is not black and white.
- FlagsAreFun 4y ago
  Android is not for everyone, just as iOS is not for everyone.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  Android UI design sucks. Simple as that.
  - sph 4y ago
    And Google sucks more than Apple. It's just a matter of choosing the least worst option for me.
ConanRus 4y ago
[dead]
mraza007 4y ago
People who are looking to get adfree experience on YouTube they can simply use Brave Browser. It blocks all the ads
fsociety999 4y ago
I used AltStore for a while, but it’s kind of a mess. The project is not super well maintained, it’s buggy, it doesn’t recognize paid developer certificates if your paid account is linked to a business, it requires a Mail.app plugin to run, etc. There is a community developed fork now called sidestore, which seems to work much better in my limited experience trying it out. It still requires a bit of setup and you have to set up a VPN client on your device in order to install an app, but it seems more reliable to me. https://sidestore.io/ https://sidestore.io/ I’m hopeful that Apple will allow sideloading apps directly in iOS 17 to comply with new EU regulations, but I guess we will see.
1317 4y ago
> AltStore, Delta, and Clip are properties of AltStore LLC and are in no way associated with Nintendo Co., Ltd. or Apple Inc. Nintendo?
- eh9 4y ago
  Delta is an emulator.
chillbill 4y ago
Not to diss the effort but be upfront with what's required. You need to download install iTunes and iCloud, then you'll need to provide your apple username and password? Too sketchy for my taste, thanks.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  I don't think that this will convince you but it's open source (https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore), and you could a separate Apple ID specifically only for signing (https://faq.altstore.io/getting-started/troubleshooting-guide https://faq.altstore.io/getting-started/troubleshooting-guid...). This is probably the least clunky way of doing it since that Apple still doesn't allow sideloading.
  - nicce 4y ago
    Open-source does not mean anything in the context of privacy if the distributed package or binary is not made in reproducible ways, and the distributor is not proving the checksum. There is no way to guarantee that the shipped software uses the claimed source otherwise. Just saying, since people so often use open-source as argument in privacy context. But it requires reproducible builds to mean something. In security context, the source alone helps a bit more, but does not prevent intentional backdoors.
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      In this instance the open source-ness refers to being able to inspect and compile the application you enter your Apple ID into. It doesn't protect your device from malware you install through an open source app store, obviously. This is why I appreciate the F-Droid process. F-Droid is the most popular open source app store for Android and it insists that app developers publish their source, which then gets built by F-Droid, rather than upload binaries. You still have to trust F-Droid and I'm sure there are injection risks involved somewhere, but it's heaps better than Google Play's/Samsung Store's/Amazon's approach of "upload a binary and we'll send it to your users". However, this trust problem is a factor everywhere. Every mobile app store carries malware. Apple had malware published for ages that was all injected by the same infected, redistributed compiler. Google Play takes down malware all the time. Which stores you trust and how you can distinguish the useful apps from the malware is all up to you, but unless you're building all apps yourself after inspecting every single source file (including every single dependency, and possibly reverse engineering the operating system libraries while you're at it), you'll always run the risk of installing malware. You can mitigate this by installing your emulators and other such apps through the App Store if you don't like this one, but the risk model isn't very different.
yieldcrv 4y ago
Now we can get our crypto stolen in a fun and exciting way
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  If Apple's sandbox would really be that bad, you would've had your crypto stolen through the normal App Store already.
quickthrower2 4y ago
As a way to get around the app store, wont the iPhone app for this get banned eventually?
- j5155 4y ago
  Banned by who? The app is sideloaded, it isn’t on the App Store. (“Sideloaded” here meaning from Apple/your phone’s point of view you developed the app and are just testing it, which is a fairly essential feature)
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    Theoretically, Apple has the ability to blacklist and purge apps installed on your device. This can be useful when they encounter new malware on their App Store, for example. In practice, this would cost them billions if they don't do it very very quickly. The grace period for the European DMA will be ending in three to four months and this is exactly the type of anti-competitive behaviour the law was designed to ban.
    - clnq 4y ago
      I think it would probably cost them a month of legal team time to figure out a way to just ban side-loading anyways.
      - jeroenhd 4y ago
        It shouldn't take them that long to detect the API access this tool uses to generate free developer certificates if they really cared. That may start an arms race that'll inevitably be too costly for Apple to continue, but after the initial blow I expect many people to drop the platform all together, giving Apple a one-time quick win.
        kaba0 4y ago
        It doesn’t create a free dev certificate, it uses the same tools as anyone downloading XCode, writing a program and installing on their phone would, it is a completely Apple-certified workflow automated to do the resigning every week.
domh 4y ago
I really hope Apple allows sideloading sometime soon. As an Android user, viewing the huge list of requirements that need to be done in order to make this functional is ridiculous. The only other things keeping me on android - usb-c charging and the ability to run non-safari browsers. If these things were sorted I'd definitely be tempted to get an iPhone again (having been an android user since the iPhone 5s).
- phoooom 4y ago
  My partner has an iPhone and runs Chrome on her iPhone and I think USB-C is coming soon. Your time is now friend!
  - japoco 4y ago
    Chrome on iOS is basically a WebKit skin, so it’s still safari (at least for now, apparently both google and Mozilla are developing ports of their browser engines for iOS).
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    Apple still forces 3rd party browsers to use Webkit to render the page. Every browser on iOS is Safari with a slightly different skin for managing tabs and bookmarks. I think this is changing, but native iOS versions of Chrome and Firefox have not been released yet.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  The DMA will force Apple to allow sideloading (well, let's just calling it installing applications) soon outside the App Store. At least in the EU. It looks like they'll have the functionality in iOS17. I'm looking forward to a native xCloud application. I can't believe Apple blocked game streaming apps. What a terribly anti-consumer move.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
robbie-c 4y ago
This page needs an app showcase or something. WHY do I want this? The original iPhone ad did this really well https://imgur.com/a/K1a6ILL https://imgur.com/a/K1a6ILL (am on mobile so sorry for low res)
- eptcyka 4y ago
  The original iPhone didn't solve this at all, you had no apps.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mouse_ 4y ago
    I think they intended to say the original iPhone Apps ad.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Well TIL that Spore had an iPhone version.
  - mh- 4y ago
    there were a lot of decent AAA adaptations on iOS in the first 3-5 years. In-app purchases ruined consumers' expectations of app/game pricing; then subscriptions doubled down on that.
    - jsheard 4y ago
      Then the deprecation of 32bit apps made many of those early ports disappear forever.
isodev 4y ago
This Altstore seems to be backed by some kind of a LLC company. It begs the question - why would I as a developer, substitute one corporation with another? The whole point of having an alternative to the App Store is to reduce the risk of sudden policy changes coming from a for profit company controlling the store.
- cuuupid 4y ago
  I think the logic is supposedly having multiple for-profits reduces the ability for any one to control the store, or at least incentivizes other stores to apply as little control as possible to gain users. I think that works as global economic policy, but based off Android doesn’t really work in an app store case. In practice Altstore is mostly used for piracy…
- slikrick 4y ago
  and if the developer hadn't made an LLC "why would I put money or time into something not made by a company, that will just be completely gone as soon as the dev loses interest in the project"
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    all an LLC says to me is that they set up some legal distance between their business and personal lives
  - isodev 4y ago
    My point was that setting up a presence in an "app store" requires some legal due diligence, so there has to be more on the table. Just one example - they ask for actual Apple ID credentials and don't even have a Privacy Policy. Are they a processor or a controller? Where do I download the GDPR contract between my company and theirs? Who is their Data Protection Officer? One can't just hand over control of an app to some random person with an LLC that offers to access your account and host binaries for you... but hey, pinky-promise they won't do bad stuff.
gzer0 4y ago
For those not wanting to go through the hassle of this setup, you can try using something called Signulous [1]. Not only does Signulous allow you to natively (locally on your iPhone, for example) upload and sign your own IPA files, they have an extensive library as well. Best of both worlds imo. Your own IPA's for if you don't trust their (massive) repository of apps, or their own sideloaded store. $20/year and well worth it. One of the first things I do is install signulous on any new iPhone or iPad. [1] https://www.signulous.com/ https://www.signulous.com/
amelius 4y ago
Is this safe? And how do we know?
- redcitylights 4y ago
  That’s a weird question, I’m not sure what you mean by safe. The source [1] was the 3rd result on Google. You could build it yourself. The author puts their real name and face on the project. [1] https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore
joshxyz 4y ago
I honestly dont get it. "Pushing boundaries" doesnt explain anything to me, good lord. What does this does???
- joshxyz 4y ago
  You downvoters don't get it. The homepage does not talk about what differs those apps from those in the App Store. Does it let me install apps like apk's in android? That's it? The homepage DOES NOT tell me that, lmao.
  - joshxyz 4y ago
    I dont even get the Expires in 7 days, the hell are those.. someone explain?
rekoil 4y ago
This is great, been using it for a while already, but I really wish it worked over a VPN, and that you could run the server component on Linux... EDIT: Appears someone built a Linux version of the server component, https://github.com/NyaMisty/AltServer-Linux https://github.com/NyaMisty/AltServer-Linux Will have to give this a try!
musictubes 4y ago
Discussions about alt stores for iOS always infuriate me. There are some legitimately useful things that can only be done outside of Apple’s strictures but the conversation usually ends up with people salivating over ways to pirate things. Incidentally, this is also the bulk of the sentiment I hear when sideloading on Android is discussed as well. Pirating YouTube, Spotify and games as well as torrenting seemingly make up 90% of desires of an alt store. I expect this from 14 year olds, it’s frustrating to see it on HN. “I need to not only block all ads on YouTube but all sponsor reads too. They’re sooooo annoying!” Grow up. Content makers need to be reimbursed. YouTube Premium subscribers and sideloading enthusiasts have very little overlap. The side loading crowd is its own worst ambassador. Entitlement to free entertainment is an ugly look. I want to hear about useful, legit stuff that Apple prevents from being on the App Store.
- paulluuk 4y ago
  Honestly I think the best reason to use an altstore is to avoid the 30% tax that Apple and Google charge for using "their infrastructure". Both claim that users could use alternative stores and therefore charging 30% is not an abuse of a duopoly market position -- but what realistic options do they have? Samsung store?
  - wil421 4y ago
    As a consumer why would I care? If anything signing up through Apple means I have all my subscriptions in one place with only a click away from cancelling. The only reason I moved Disney+ off of my iCloud was to get a $7 monthly rebate from AMEX. All of the services that I’ve used don’t charge 30% less if you skip Apple. I’m sure there are examples where it is cheaper. At one point in time very recently I had to actually call newspapers and magazines to get a subscription cancelled. These were well known like Economist and WSJ.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      As a consumer, you arguably shouldn't care. This is a fight between Apple and the App distributors, if it still makes sense for you to use Apple's payment processing then nobody should stop you. However, that doesn't mean Apple can preclude other people from competing with them. Who knows, you (the customer) might be missing out on a better experience because of a lack of market competition. If you aren't, then the App Store still exists. It really seems like a win-win to me.
chadlavi 4y ago
This kind of nonsense is a great ad for Apple's hardware. The extremely very obvious solution for people who want to install whatever they want is to get an android device, and yet people bend over backwards to try to get stuff onto Apple hardware. It's like buying a shirt that famously only comes in blue and trying to figure out how to make it be red.
- kaba0 4y ago
  If anything, this is a good reason for why external regulation is needed — there is no solution to this problem within capitalism, you simply can’t buy as good hardware as apple makes with Android, so this is what you are left with.
efields 4y ago
Why is it so obscure about what kinds of apps are available, or do I already know the answer to that?
- jjcon 4y ago
  Because it’s not hosting the apps directly - it’s a sideloaded app manager really - I could create my own repo and send the source to people and they could browse it and download an app from my repo via AltStore. I think there are only 2 native apps in AltStore available, one is an emulator and another is a clipboard manager.

333 points by behnamoh 4y ago

Is it basically signing per user developer builds or something? EDIT: Ah yes, the readme explains: https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore#altstore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore#altstore

alex_suzuki 4y ago
Huh. Used to be an Apple Developer program subscription was required to sign anything running on a physical device. Seems to no longer be the case? Or does the Configuration Profile installation allow running code signed with some self-signed certificate?
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  A free developer account has been able to do this for a long time now. It’s just meant for hobby development, so it does come with the limitation the install only works for a short while, this program attempts to work around that by reinstalling the app periodically.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Also, limited number of applications you can have at any one time.

throwanem 4y ago

One question not obviously answered on the site: What's on here to make it worth the trouble?

codetheweb 4y ago
The main thing is Delta, an excellent game emulator: https://github.com/rileytestut/Delta https://github.com/rileytestut/Delta
- sedatk 4y ago
  Actually, it's why AltStore was written.
  - thih9 4y ago
    Is console emulation on a smartphone a good user experience? I’d love to hear more from someone who does that. I’m worried about battery drain, lack of hardware keys (or the need to carry a gamepad) as well as being interrupted by notifications. I’m likely spoiled by nintendo switch; and there are also dedicated console emulation devices, they seem interesting too.
    - domh 4y ago
      I recently replayed most of Pokemon Fire Red in RetroArch on my android phone (installed via f-droid). It worked surprisingly well! I only stopped because I bought a dedicated device to do so (Anbernic RG35XX, which is also fantastic). So in a pinch, console emulation on a smartphone, especially for older consoles like Gameboy Advance, works very well. To get around the on-screen buttons, I ended up connecting my ps5 controller via Bluetooth which worked amazingly straight out of the box with zero configuration.
    - pohuing 4y ago
      I can play Wind Waker on my Pixel 4a, a mid level phone from a couple years ago. I imagine if apple could be arsed to open their stupid ban on jits you could emulate switch titles without a hitch on iPhones. You probably still want a game pad for any 3d titles tho, on Gameboy on screen inputs are fine but the lack of precision can be really annoying to get over. Fortunately the xbox controllers work out of the box with dolphin.
      - kaba0 4y ago
        AltStore has an option to (temporarily) enable JITs on a per app basis. JIT is not disabled on the hardware level, safari does use it for JS for example. Just ordinary AppStore apps can’t do so. Also, in my experience with Delta playing some of the Pokemon games, I noticed no difference between the non-JIT and JIT-ted versions.
WirelessGigabit 4y ago
Basically any app that is not allowed in the app store because it uses internal APIs, or does things not allowed by Apple. For example a PornHub viewer. Would never be allowed. Or a torrent manager.
- runjake 4y ago
  There were literally only a few apps I could see listed amongst AltStore sources I saw. Where else are you finding all these apps you seem to be alluding to?
  - daveidol 4y ago
    Check out https://iosninja.io/ipa-library https://iosninja.io/ipa-library and https://appdb.to https://appdb.to
    - dewey 4y ago
      Based on these the main selling point seems to be pirated apps and content.
      - daveidol 4y ago
        That’s certainly one of them. For me it’s more like having browser extensions in your native apps. Ad blocking, feature enhancements, etc. For example: there is no “Instagram Premium” I can even pay for to remove ads. But with this there is. As well as some apps that are just off limits for the App Store, like emulators.
    - runjake 4y ago
      Thanks. I figured I was missing something!
hedora 4y ago
This list of other emulators looks promising: https://www.reddit.com/r/AltStore/comments/p4ih1f/my_preferred_emulators_all_loaded_through/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AltStore/comments/p4ih1f/my_preferr... I wonder if there's any chance of getting modern Linux on my M1 iPad at near-native speed.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  According to https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ UTM.HV.ipa with TrollStore should give you Hypervisor (i.e. native virtualization, not JIT or interpreter) and USB support. I haven't had an M1 iPad to try it out but videos suggest that particular combination is speedy, outside GPU acceleration of course.
  - nug 4y ago
    I have a M1 iPad Pro, running Windows 11 on that Version of UTM. It runs surprisingly well. I was able to use the desktop Version of Photoshop without any Problems (even more demanding filters). I even was able to run rekordbox and connect my DJ Mixer to it so USB also seems to be working great.
Gigachad 4y ago
There is an app called UTM which allows running full VMs which could be useful for an iPad with a keyboard.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  how is performance?
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    If you run an ARM OS in it, the performance is great. If you run an x86 one it’s unusable.
    - easton 4y ago
      That still needs the Virtualization entitlement on iOS which I thought you couldn’t get if you’re outside Apple, unless you’re jailbroken and can work around the signing requirement. Otherwise UTM runs emulating the OS and is slow as Christmas.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        Ah you are probably right, I remembered that being gated behind something but I assumed it was the altstore which was the thing you had to do for full virtualisation.
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      > If you run an ARM OS in it Only arm64/aarch64 operating systems I know are GNU/Linux or Mac OS X. I doubt the iPad is strong enough to run a usable Mac OS X virtual machine, and I don't see a ton of value running either a Linux distribution as CLI ("headless") or with a GUI on an iPad as an app in a window?
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        Even the base tier ipad is more powerful than a raspberry pi which is more than enough for a gui linux. The ipad pro contains the same chip as the macbooks and comes with 8gb/16gb ram options. It's more powerful than the average Windows laptop.
pugworthy 4y ago
How hard could it be to just post a list of what's available via the service?
- jhugo 4y ago
  That wouldn't drive installs of the Altstore app, though!
pugworthy 4y ago
How hard could it be to just post a list of what's available via the service? Even the lists being shared are pretty vague in terms of app descriptions. Some look downright sketchy. I mean, what exactly is the value prop here?
- redcitylights 4y ago
  You can sideload any app with this if you can get ahold of the .ipa file.
patrickk 4y ago
https://github.com/qnblackcat/uYouPlus https://github.com/qnblackcat/uYouPlus
favaq 4y ago
Spotify and YouTube premium for free, in my case.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  So copyright infringement. Really a poor argument against Apples policies. People should upload an app that allows you to bypass the regional limitations on 5ghz WiFi and see what the EU thinks about banning app stores then. Because according to the typical regulator it’s bad when others impose limits, but not when they impose limits.
  - slikrick 4y ago
    copyright infringement doesn't exist in the same form everywhere, I don't think a phone should have a single monopolized app store just to prevent US based copyright infringement.
    - tinus_hn 4y ago
      In other news, the DMCA type rules do not apply to the whole internet and the Berne convention is just a fiction that stands in the way of the glorious EU forcing Apple to open their App Store.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        The free transmission of information should usually triumph over the enforcement of intellectual property. It's a symbol of a healthy democracy, in my opinion.
        tinus_hn 4y ago
        If you want to argue the abolition of copyright that’s fine but it’s revolutionary and not the subject of this thread.
        4y ago
cvak 4y ago
For me - KODI , I hate that I have to use files app, and VLC to watch my videos from dropbox, and other sources. And any form of torrent client.

yosito 4y ago

It would be great to be able to browse which apps are available on a webpage without having to set up a local server just to see what's available.

daveidol 4y ago
You can get apps from anywhere. There is no one single source, but check out https://iosninja.io/ipa-library https://iosninja.io/ipa-library and https://appdb.to https://appdb.to

bt3 4y ago

What's the cross section of users willing to configure this setup (which requires the Mac app host) that want these "restricted" applications that also do not want to jailbreak their devices? I suppose I am many years removed from the jailbreak scene so it's not clear to me if this represents a viable alternative for the regular user, and/or if Cydia is still functional. The latter of which was very much the defacto "aftermarket" app store.

redcitylights 4y ago
This works on Windows, plenty of devices or iOS versions are without a jailbreak, and plenty of users don’t want to jailbreak. It’s not exactly an alternative to Cydia either.
daveidol 4y ago
Jail breaking is increasingly difficult if you want any of the new phones or iOS versions. It’s becoming much harder these days. I use this myself and love it. I get native YouTube and Instagram and others with no ads at all. Plus, things like Super Mario 64 running natively for iOS (build from the reverse engineered source port). All on the latest iOS and iPhone models. Never have to worry about an OTA update either.
SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
As answered in a sibling comment, if you want Delta, or really any decent emulator on iOS, this is basically your only choice. I think Riley envisioned this to be used for other things outside of Delta, but it’s been around for over half a decade now and no other huge, significant driving use cases has been knocking down the AltStore doors. Perhaps that’s a good thing, because Delta has always existed in quasi acceptable territory for Apple, and further attention might force Apple’s hand into killing it entirely. Interestingly it also I think helps Apple argue for the walled garden use case. If walled garden was so bad and people are itching to side load their apps, why aren’t there a shit ton more apps on AltStore? It’s not like Riley wouldn’t welcome other use cases. And I don’t think it’s particularly difficult for either developers or end users to use this workaround. It leads me to believe that really people don’t want sideloaded apps as much as HN would lead us to believe, or there would at least be someone other than Riley using AltStore.

paxys 4y ago

Why put all this effort into something that will be banned by Apple the second it gets popular? They have made it clear plenty of times in the past that personal developer certificates aren't a way to get around app store distribution.

goranmoomin 4y ago
This doesn’t use enterprise certificate; it creates a 7-day free developer certificate for each Apple ID, and uses it instead. That’s why there’s a server component in here.
- paxys 4y ago
  Doesn't matter. Neither way is sanctioned.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    Any user is allowed to use a free developer account, and that account can be used to execute code on your own device. The limitation is that you have to update your apps once a week to keep those apps authorized. Altstore automates that renewal process, so in effect all you have to do is have you device connect to the same WiFi network as your Mac or Windows PC once a week.
  - eviks 4y ago
    It does matter since it affects the probability of a ban
    - ungamedplayer 4y ago
      As far as I can tell, the wind affects the probability of a ban on these systems.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Agreed. Next up will be 1hr dev certs or god forbid ai detection of “rouge” apps by iOS.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

The EU's Digital Markets Act will soon either make this a first-class citizen or totally useless.

gregoriol 4y ago
High hopes this will happen! Not being able to install some apps just because some Apple person decided is hurting the community: Cydia at it's peak was a huge catalyst for innovation
- wruza 4y ago
  How did Cydia protect its users from SEOing apps that require unnecessary permissions? If by the fact that it’s a niche store used by only hundreds of people, there’s bad news.
  - gregoriol 4y ago
    I'm not saying it was for everyone. As soon as you used jailbreaks, you opened a big door anyway. But it also allowed many new things to be built that were not allowed on the regular store, and in the end a lot was copied by Apple in later iOS versions as their own. An alternative store with open-source apps, without the opening of the jailbreak and that could be verified by users, would be a good amazing start.
    - alexvoda 4y ago
      In other words, F-Droid but for iOS.
      - witheld 4y ago
        F-Droid is lawful good, Cydia was chaotic good
  - wingerlang 4y ago
    Maybe I am misunderstanding you here. But, Cydia had millions upon millions of users, and generated millions in revenue. It didn't protect you at all, it was more of a package manager GUI than a proper store, it just had some repositories where you could upload paid packages. And generally, you wouldn't really install apps from it (with both notable and non-notable exceptions, of course). You would install 'tweaks' which normally were iOS plugins/modifications of various sizes and functionality. They all had root privileges an a lot of it was trust based. I don't think there have been a whole lot of malware distributed in this way.

andrewmunsell 4y ago

I've been using Altstore for a while. I just have a Windows VM on my existing Proxmox server running Altserver and never have to worry about it. My primary use-case is a third party YouTube client that integrates ad blocking and SponsorBlock-- it saves me a huge amount of time and frustration when using YouTube. Why not jailbreak? I want to remain on the latest iOS software, and generally speaking, hardware. Jailbreaking is just not an option for me if I want to stay up to date and I don't want to deal with tethered jailbreaks, which seem to be more common for the latest release versions.

dewey 4y ago
> it saves me a huge amount of time and frustration when using YouTube. It doesn't have "sponsor block" but it seems like a lot less of a hassle would be to use YouTube Premium. One of the few subscriptions I think are worth the money.
- HeavyFeather 4y ago
  I think PiP still doesn’t work in the app for me and sponsors aren’t blocked. I get less value from Premium than just SponsorBlock + YouTube PiP. I just have to deal with 720p videos though
- adzm 4y ago
  I love YouTube premium but the most frustrating thing is that there is no guest mode. You can go incognito but then there are ads. Which means my recommendations get messed up whenever people visit and play things on the TV!
  - dewey 4y ago
    Doesn't the "Switch Account" feature do exactly that? If I use it I have the "default" YouTube recommendations that are not based on my main account but it still says YouTube Premium on the top and there's no ads.
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    Try creating a sub-account channel/brand account. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQBLBvY1Pw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQBLBvY1Pw8

cute_boi 4y ago

Altstore is so inconvenient. It generally can't refresh and I have to open mail apps regularly. Also, I have to refresh app every 7 days. I don't understand why it can't automate itself. Also, why don't mozilla release altstore version of firefox that supports ublock. That would be so useful.

nvarsj 4y ago
I agree it's inconvenient, but it's limited by Apple's choices. The only alternative really is to go to Android which doesn't have this kind of nonsense. I've already done this for my tablet - sold my iPad Pro and bought a Samsung Tab. Being able to run whatever I want on it makes it actually feel like a personal computing device. iPad is so crippled by iOS/app store limitations it makes the device next to useless for me.

mometsi 4y ago

This blog post by the author provides the backstory: https://rileytestut.com/blog/2020/10/14/thoughts-on-app-store/ https://rileytestut.com/blog/2020/10/14/thoughts-on-app-stor...

v7engine 4y ago

Is there any adblocker app available on altstore? If yes, I am willing to give it a try.

dewey 4y ago
For any specifics apps or just for the browser? There's many ad blockers for Safari in the regular app store that I've been using over the years.
asr1414 4y ago
brave browser directly on apple app store

dang 4y ago

Related: How AltStore is building a haven for forbidden iPhone apps - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31323321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31323321 - May 2022 (1 comment) AltServer 1.5 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31253588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31253588 - May 2022 (1 comment) AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27568379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27568379 - June 2021 (215 comments) AltStore: An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028786 - Nov 2020 (173 comments) AltStore is an iOS App Store alternative that doesn’t require a jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201810 - Oct 2019 (1 comment) An iOS developer built an alternative App Store for the iPhone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21162548 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21162548 - Oct 2019 (1 comment) Altstore – An alternative iOS app store, no jailbreak required - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21088998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21088998 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore: iOS App Store alternative that doesn’t require jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083828 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore: Alternative iOS app store that doesn't require a jailbreak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21083092 - Sept 2019 (47 comments) AltStore is an alternative iOS App Store with a built-in Nintendo emulator - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21081639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21081639 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) A home for apps that push the boundaries of iOS. No jailbreak required - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21076155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21076155 - Sept 2019 (1 comment) AltStore - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21075818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21075818 - Sept 2019 (1 comment)

netfortius 4y ago

Reading this entire thread makes me wonder why in the world wouldn't people use Android. From Aurora Store, as the safest method, which by-passes Google play locality restrictions, through the likes of F-Droid, all the way to dedicated apk files or site-repositories of such, of course with all verifications carried out, for safety/security reasons, there is an incredible wealth of resources. And I'm not even considering rooting, and/or alternative OS images, to the vendor provided ones.

netfortius 4y ago
Following up on this, I realized I may have been harsh on the Apple phone supporters (I've been owning macbookpros since they first put a BSD flavor on these devices, so I am not an Apple "hater"), but - for me - having not paid for an app in ages (lots of iOS apps cost, when on Android are free), getting country local stores (for discounts), transportation, info/access and social contact media apps, throughout the world, via third party store (Apple won't allow my wife's phone to do such, as it is "stuck" on the US locale), network and security specialized apps allowing installs via apk files (not avail in Google or Apple stores), etc., etc. are now critical facilities for me. To each his own, I guess ...
liberty-DNBWM 4y ago
This world is not black and white.
FlagsAreFun 4y ago
Android is not for everyone, just as iOS is not for everyone.
KerrAvon 4y ago
Android UI design sucks. Simple as that.
- sph 4y ago
  And Google sucks more than Apple. It's just a matter of choosing the least worst option for me.

ConanRus 4y ago

[dead]

mraza007 4y ago

People who are looking to get adfree experience on YouTube they can simply use Brave Browser. It blocks all the ads

fsociety999 4y ago

I used AltStore for a while, but it’s kind of a mess. The project is not super well maintained, it’s buggy, it doesn’t recognize paid developer certificates if your paid account is linked to a business, it requires a Mail.app plugin to run, etc. There is a community developed fork now called sidestore, which seems to work much better in my limited experience trying it out. It still requires a bit of setup and you have to set up a VPN client on your device in order to install an app, but it seems more reliable to me. https://sidestore.io/ https://sidestore.io/ I’m hopeful that Apple will allow sideloading apps directly in iOS 17 to comply with new EU regulations, but I guess we will see.

1317 4y ago

> AltStore, Delta, and Clip are properties of AltStore LLC and are in no way associated with Nintendo Co., Ltd. or Apple Inc. Nintendo?

eh9 4y ago
Delta is an emulator.

chillbill 4y ago

Not to diss the effort but be upfront with what's required. You need to download install iTunes and iCloud, then you'll need to provide your apple username and password? Too sketchy for my taste, thanks.

zinekeller 4y ago
I don't think that this will convince you but it's open source (https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore), and you could a separate Apple ID specifically only for signing (https://faq.altstore.io/getting-started/troubleshooting-guide https://faq.altstore.io/getting-started/troubleshooting-guid...). This is probably the least clunky way of doing it since that Apple still doesn't allow sideloading.
- nicce 4y ago
  Open-source does not mean anything in the context of privacy if the distributed package or binary is not made in reproducible ways, and the distributor is not proving the checksum. There is no way to guarantee that the shipped software uses the claimed source otherwise. Just saying, since people so often use open-source as argument in privacy context. But it requires reproducible builds to mean something. In security context, the source alone helps a bit more, but does not prevent intentional backdoors.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    In this instance the open source-ness refers to being able to inspect and compile the application you enter your Apple ID into. It doesn't protect your device from malware you install through an open source app store, obviously. This is why I appreciate the F-Droid process. F-Droid is the most popular open source app store for Android and it insists that app developers publish their source, which then gets built by F-Droid, rather than upload binaries. You still have to trust F-Droid and I'm sure there are injection risks involved somewhere, but it's heaps better than Google Play's/Samsung Store's/Amazon's approach of "upload a binary and we'll send it to your users". However, this trust problem is a factor everywhere. Every mobile app store carries malware. Apple had malware published for ages that was all injected by the same infected, redistributed compiler. Google Play takes down malware all the time. Which stores you trust and how you can distinguish the useful apps from the malware is all up to you, but unless you're building all apps yourself after inspecting every single source file (including every single dependency, and possibly reverse engineering the operating system libraries while you're at it), you'll always run the risk of installing malware. You can mitigate this by installing your emulators and other such apps through the App Store if you don't like this one, but the risk model isn't very different.

yieldcrv 4y ago

Now we can get our crypto stolen in a fun and exciting way

jeroenhd 4y ago
If Apple's sandbox would really be that bad, you would've had your crypto stolen through the normal App Store already.

quickthrower2 4y ago

As a way to get around the app store, wont the iPhone app for this get banned eventually?

j5155 4y ago
Banned by who? The app is sideloaded, it isn’t on the App Store. (“Sideloaded” here meaning from Apple/your phone’s point of view you developed the app and are just testing it, which is a fairly essential feature)
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Theoretically, Apple has the ability to blacklist and purge apps installed on your device. This can be useful when they encounter new malware on their App Store, for example. In practice, this would cost them billions if they don't do it very very quickly. The grace period for the European DMA will be ending in three to four months and this is exactly the type of anti-competitive behaviour the law was designed to ban.
  - clnq 4y ago
    I think it would probably cost them a month of legal team time to figure out a way to just ban side-loading anyways.
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      It shouldn't take them that long to detect the API access this tool uses to generate free developer certificates if they really cared. That may start an arms race that'll inevitably be too costly for Apple to continue, but after the initial blow I expect many people to drop the platform all together, giving Apple a one-time quick win.
      - kaba0 4y ago
        It doesn’t create a free dev certificate, it uses the same tools as anyone downloading XCode, writing a program and installing on their phone would, it is a completely Apple-certified workflow automated to do the resigning every week.

domh 4y ago

I really hope Apple allows sideloading sometime soon. As an Android user, viewing the huge list of requirements that need to be done in order to make this functional is ridiculous. The only other things keeping me on android - usb-c charging and the ability to run non-safari browsers. If these things were sorted I'd definitely be tempted to get an iPhone again (having been an android user since the iPhone 5s).

phoooom 4y ago
My partner has an iPhone and runs Chrome on her iPhone and I think USB-C is coming soon. Your time is now friend!
- japoco 4y ago
  Chrome on iOS is basically a WebKit skin, so it’s still safari (at least for now, apparently both google and Mozilla are developing ports of their browser engines for iOS).
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Apple still forces 3rd party browsers to use Webkit to render the page. Every browser on iOS is Safari with a slightly different skin for managing tabs and bookmarks. I think this is changing, but native iOS versions of Chrome and Firefox have not been released yet.
Gareth321 4y ago
The DMA will force Apple to allow sideloading (well, let's just calling it installing applications) soon outside the App Store. At least in the EU. It looks like they'll have the functionality in iOS17. I'm looking forward to a native xCloud application. I can't believe Apple blocked game streaming apps. What a terribly anti-consumer move.

deleted 4y ago

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robbie-c 4y ago

This page needs an app showcase or something. WHY do I want this? The original iPhone ad did this really well https://imgur.com/a/K1a6ILL https://imgur.com/a/K1a6ILL (am on mobile so sorry for low res)

eptcyka 4y ago
The original iPhone didn't solve this at all, you had no apps.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mouse_ 4y ago
  I think they intended to say the original iPhone Apps ad.
andrepd 4y ago
Well TIL that Spore had an iPhone version.
- mh- 4y ago
  there were a lot of decent AAA adaptations on iOS in the first 3-5 years. In-app purchases ruined consumers' expectations of app/game pricing; then subscriptions doubled down on that.
  - jsheard 4y ago
    Then the deprecation of 32bit apps made many of those early ports disappear forever.

isodev 4y ago

This Altstore seems to be backed by some kind of a LLC company. It begs the question - why would I as a developer, substitute one corporation with another? The whole point of having an alternative to the App Store is to reduce the risk of sudden policy changes coming from a for profit company controlling the store.

cuuupid 4y ago
I think the logic is supposedly having multiple for-profits reduces the ability for any one to control the store, or at least incentivizes other stores to apply as little control as possible to gain users. I think that works as global economic policy, but based off Android doesn’t really work in an app store case. In practice Altstore is mostly used for piracy…
slikrick 4y ago
and if the developer hadn't made an LLC "why would I put money or time into something not made by a company, that will just be completely gone as soon as the dev loses interest in the project"
- meepmorp 4y ago
  all an LLC says to me is that they set up some legal distance between their business and personal lives
- isodev 4y ago
  My point was that setting up a presence in an "app store" requires some legal due diligence, so there has to be more on the table. Just one example - they ask for actual Apple ID credentials and don't even have a Privacy Policy. Are they a processor or a controller? Where do I download the GDPR contract between my company and theirs? Who is their Data Protection Officer? One can't just hand over control of an app to some random person with an LLC that offers to access your account and host binaries for you... but hey, pinky-promise they won't do bad stuff.

gzer0 4y ago

For those not wanting to go through the hassle of this setup, you can try using something called Signulous [1]. Not only does Signulous allow you to natively (locally on your iPhone, for example) upload and sign your own IPA files, they have an extensive library as well. Best of both worlds imo. Your own IPA's for if you don't trust their (massive) repository of apps, or their own sideloaded store. $20/year and well worth it. One of the first things I do is install signulous on any new iPhone or iPad. [1] https://www.signulous.com/ https://www.signulous.com/

amelius 4y ago

Is this safe? And how do we know?

redcitylights 4y ago
That’s a weird question, I’m not sure what you mean by safe. The source [1] was the 3rd result on Google. You could build it yourself. The author puts their real name and face on the project. [1] https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore https://github.com/altstoreio/AltStore

joshxyz 4y ago

I honestly dont get it. "Pushing boundaries" doesnt explain anything to me, good lord. What does this does???

joshxyz 4y ago
You downvoters don't get it. The homepage does not talk about what differs those apps from those in the App Store. Does it let me install apps like apk's in android? That's it? The homepage DOES NOT tell me that, lmao.
- joshxyz 4y ago
  I dont even get the Expires in 7 days, the hell are those.. someone explain?

rekoil 4y ago

This is great, been using it for a while already, but I really wish it worked over a VPN, and that you could run the server component on Linux... EDIT: Appears someone built a Linux version of the server component, https://github.com/NyaMisty/AltServer-Linux https://github.com/NyaMisty/AltServer-Linux Will have to give this a try!

musictubes 4y ago

Discussions about alt stores for iOS always infuriate me. There are some legitimately useful things that can only be done outside of Apple’s strictures but the conversation usually ends up with people salivating over ways to pirate things. Incidentally, this is also the bulk of the sentiment I hear when sideloading on Android is discussed as well. Pirating YouTube, Spotify and games as well as torrenting seemingly make up 90% of desires of an alt store. I expect this from 14 year olds, it’s frustrating to see it on HN. “I need to not only block all ads on YouTube but all sponsor reads too. They’re sooooo annoying!” Grow up. Content makers need to be reimbursed. YouTube Premium subscribers and sideloading enthusiasts have very little overlap. The side loading crowd is its own worst ambassador. Entitlement to free entertainment is an ugly look. I want to hear about useful, legit stuff that Apple prevents from being on the App Store.

paulluuk 4y ago
Honestly I think the best reason to use an altstore is to avoid the 30% tax that Apple and Google charge for using "their infrastructure". Both claim that users could use alternative stores and therefore charging 30% is not an abuse of a duopoly market position -- but what realistic options do they have? Samsung store?
- wil421 4y ago
  As a consumer why would I care? If anything signing up through Apple means I have all my subscriptions in one place with only a click away from cancelling. The only reason I moved Disney+ off of my iCloud was to get a $7 monthly rebate from AMEX. All of the services that I’ve used don’t charge 30% less if you skip Apple. I’m sure there are examples where it is cheaper. At one point in time very recently I had to actually call newspapers and magazines to get a subscription cancelled. These were well known like Economist and WSJ.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    As a consumer, you arguably shouldn't care. This is a fight between Apple and the App distributors, if it still makes sense for you to use Apple's payment processing then nobody should stop you. However, that doesn't mean Apple can preclude other people from competing with them. Who knows, you (the customer) might be missing out on a better experience because of a lack of market competition. If you aren't, then the App Store still exists. It really seems like a win-win to me.

chadlavi 4y ago

This kind of nonsense is a great ad for Apple's hardware. The extremely very obvious solution for people who want to install whatever they want is to get an android device, and yet people bend over backwards to try to get stuff onto Apple hardware. It's like buying a shirt that famously only comes in blue and trying to figure out how to make it be red.

kaba0 4y ago
If anything, this is a good reason for why external regulation is needed — there is no solution to this problem within capitalism, you simply can’t buy as good hardware as apple makes with Android, so this is what you are left with.

efields 4y ago

Why is it so obscure about what kinds of apps are available, or do I already know the answer to that?

jjcon 4y ago
Because it’s not hosting the apps directly - it’s a sideloaded app manager really - I could create my own repo and send the source to people and they could browse it and download an app from my repo via AltStore. I think there are only 2 native apps in AltStore available, one is an emulator and another is a clipboard manager.