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As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving work early to attend baseball games and do fun activities with their colleagues. Indeed, some white collar workers are so "underworked" they can literally work multiple full time remote jobs. Blue collar guys can't work remote, so expect to pay for child care and endure the mourning commute. Blue collar workers aren't necessarily paid based on merit, this is formally true if you work in a union-shop where promotions are primarily based on tenue; if non-union there may be no promotion path for most workers because management has a "fresh meat for the grinder" approach to entry level staffing. From a social perspective people don't respect blue collar workers. Believe that nobody who writes think pieces praising blue collar workers wants their daughters dating a blue collar worker or wants their children becoming them.

briHass 4y ago
Anyone that hasn't done manual labor really has no idea how rough it can be. I worked as an office-furniture-mover in my early 20s (Summers in college), and some days were pretty tough. Granted, that's pretty low on the manual labor skills spectrum, but even for a guy in prime physical shape, it's tiring and has elements of danger. Now that I'm double that age, the manual labor I've done like rewiring my house, installing all my own HVAC equipment, and all the yard work for a large property is much harder. I stay sore for days, and it's easy to push too hard to get something done and get injured or overwork my body to where my heart rate stays elevated for hours. There's something to be said for working with your brain. The worst days dealing with idiot product management and never-ending Jira tickets don't compare to unloading a truck in a hot warehouse or kneeling in a crawlspace for hours re-piping a sewer line.
- jletienne 4y ago
  >The worst days dealing with idiot product management and never-ending Jira tickets don't compare to unloading a truck in a hot warehouse or kneeling in a crawlspace for hours re-piping a sewer line. damn i can only imagine
- corbulo 4y ago
  There are upsides, like a certain degree of pride from really feeling like you worked hard and going to bed truly tired. Those are the things I miss about that kind of job. Going to bed as that particular kind of tired was just awesome.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    In better shape too. Some jobs wear you out. But being on your feet all day and doing moderate heavy lifting is far better for your health than sitting down all day.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      Maybe for the first decade but it's nearly impossible to avoid accumulating injuries and eventually chronic pain or disability over a whole career.
- HEmanZ 4y ago
  I don’t think anyone idealizes those kind of physical labor jobs. Usually “the trades” is much more skilled manual labor: plumbing, hvac, welding, specialized mechanic work and repair, woodworking/carpentry, etc. No one says people should want a life of a mover, meatpacker, or ditch digger.
  - phist_mcgee 4y ago
    I think that's a cultural thing. In Australia, trade workers are very highly paid and generally very well respected in society (even day labourers). In fact many envy 'tradies' as they're called, because they can outearn white-collar workers pretty easily.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      I believe there was a comment on here earlier about how surfer tradies were the preferred partners of female doctors.
      - saalweachter 4y ago
        By surfer do you just mean "a tradesperson who surfs for fun", or is there a slang meaning there?
        defrost 4y ago
        Literally tradespeople that surf when the breaks are good. Good job, good income, fit and healthy.
  - juve1996 4y ago
    The idea that plumbers/hvac/welders etc don't have physical wear and tear is also a myth that needs dispelled.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      Indeed, I've talked to a number of 20-something tradespeople in these fields and many of them already have back problems. I think if you go into the trades, you need to plan your career carefully and plan on stepping into management or business ownership by the time you reach middle age. They are hard jobs.
- geomark 4y ago
  I feel your pain. I worked in a furniture warehouse and delivered furniture, summers, in Phoenix.
onepointsixC 4y ago
It shouldn't be unrealistically romanticized, but with University tuitions only reaching ever higher, much faster than inflation what other good solution is there for Young Adults to get a career and secure their financial future? These options being elevated precisely because of out of control student debt and universities which face zero consequences to financially crippling their pupils.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  well we made university free in New Mexico, and it's free or cheap in a lot of other places.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    That’s great. I’m trying to figure out how it’s funded. Did they have to raise new funding? Levy new taxes? Just wondering how they are able to afford it. I feel like this is how colleges should be. The minimal possible tuition required to operate. It’s not like tuition increases have gone towards retaining professors or something. It’s pretty insane to think 15k/year for in state tuition is “cheap.” Edit: it seams like it’s at least partially funded by lottery tickets. Which essentially means it’s just prioritized higher than other states. Because most states find things through lottery tickets but don’t have tuition free college.
    - Avshalom 4y ago
      New Mexico (and a lot of other states) has had a lottery funded scholarship for decades. We've had an oil boom for a few years and yeah mostly funded the remainder through oil revenues/permanent fund. But yes the fundamental notion is that we decided to fund it. And that's replicable anywhere, i promise, New Mexico is q bottom 3 poorest state in the country but we decided that college was important. Florida is awful in a lot of ways but when I lived there in the mid 00's the Sunshine State Scholarship covered 100% tuition and was automatically granted for like a B+ average, an A and some community service would get you room and board. Though when I said other places i meant non-US places.
nemo44x 4y ago
If it requires a license or certification then it’s generally a well paying career with options for the ambitious. It’s why you see so many small shops because it’s very accessible to start your own business after gaining years of experience, reputation, and connections.
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
That said, it's not uncommon to be able to find good blue collar jobs with good employers. A friend of mine worked a really shitty job for a year, to finally find a much more cushy job, but it's graveyard shift. Eventually they'll put him on day shift. But in the mean time he's earning for his family, he doesn't have to do much work, and he's studying for a degree at night. If you pick the right field, you have the right skills, and are in a hot market, trades can be very lucrative and you can be drowning in contacts. For someone who wants to be their own boss it can be very rewarding.
suzzer99 4y ago
If I was rich I would still make sure my kids worked at least one blue collar job in their teens. There's no substitute for first-hand experience in that world.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  That’s pretty much all high school kids are qualified for. With some exception. Well, unskilled labor at least. Not quite synonymous with blue color but close.
  - lolbert3 4y ago
    [dead]
- softfalcon 4y ago
  My Dad made me do this. We were well off, but he pushed me to "get a job" to buy a computer so I could study for college. I worked as a janitor and construction labourer. Taught me right quick that I DEFINITELY wanted to pursue a degree in engineering or computer science. By contrast, my brother was never pushed in this way. He went to school, got good grades, finished his degree, and then just... never worked. He's a "yet to be successful" writer now. Goodness bless his wife's heart for supporting him, cause no one else will (ironic too, cause she's blue collar). Doing some real labour early on in life distills work ethic into someone. What is shocking is how lazy people will turn out if they aren't given that push early on so they learn what's what.
iLoveOncall 4y ago
You are romanticizing white collar jobs as much as you claim people do blue collar ones.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dimal 4y ago
This comment seems out of place because most of the article was describing apprenticeships for white collar jobs, and listed a bunch of white collar industries removing their college requirements.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  Most people just read the headline and jump to conclusions
rr808 4y ago
Its going to be fascinating how the preference for WFH affects the job market. I'd imagine on-location jobs to get paid more as supply dries up and everyone wants to work from home. Teachers/nurses/chefs were underpaid before, little wonder there is a shortage now, I expect they need much higher wages.
- harvey9 4y ago
  If you're in the nurse or chef employment market then I don't think you'll be affected by the WFH trend in white collar work. We already have a shortage of nurses and pay is stagnant.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Teacher salaries aren’t so flexible. It will just result in lowering the hiring standards.
twblalock 4y ago
Exactly. This is why every tradesman I know wants their kids to go to college.
rthomas6 4y ago
While this is all true, the article is about white collar apprenticeships.
- Taikonerd 4y ago
  Found the guy who actually read the article!
harvey9 4y ago
I worked in a call center for a while. I'd call it light blue collar work. You don't get to listen to podcasts but these days you might get a remote position. Physical risk is mostly limited to RSI I guess.
- mikeg8 4y ago
  A call center is probably as opposite of blue collar as it gets. The term “blue collar” comes from the blue collards shirts factory and industrial workers used to wear, and is now synonymous with manual labor. There is nothing remotely close to manual labor at a call center. You just had the lowest tier of a white collar job.
  - harvey9 4y ago
    The similarity is around control of the workers time in a 'production line' fashion. (I have also worked in a factory on a line). You're correct about the origin of the term now collar. In places where deindustrialization has cleared out most production jobs, call center work is one of the things that replaced them.
wanderingmind 4y ago
While agreeing with all your points, I think blue collar jobs will get their mojo back soon, especially something not a repeat work, as they will be one of the few jobs that will remain after LLM and AI has automated most of the desk jobs (or at least severely reduced the number of people needed to be employed in them).
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  It’s also far more durable. Your startup might disappear in a downturn but your furnace won’t.
jseliger 4y ago
As someone who has taught college, off and on, for many years, people should also be wary of romanticizing college. The question is always "relative to what?" Anyway, the move towards apprenticeships has arguably been underway for years: https://seliger.com/2017/06/16/rare-good-political-news-boosting-apprenticeships/ https://seliger.com/2017/06/16/rare-good-political-news-boos...
brightball 4y ago
Depends on the job I think. Every person I know who does any type of home contracting work that I know of is drowning in business and raising rates because of it. - HVAC - Plumbing - Electrical - General Contractor - Drywall specialists - Roofers
- specialist 4y ago
  My millenial aged kid became an electrician. Mostly residential. Mostly remodel (vs new construction). The type of clientile that want fancy lights and legit security systems. And now early adopters of solar, batteries, and EVs. He'll have plenty of work for decades. It is hard on the body though. Which is why he stayed residential. So he claims; I would have guessed new construction commercial would easiest physically. Especially if you specialize (eg elevators).
nonethewiser 4y ago
I think we need to be careful about romanticizing chilling on the job and being sent home early because there is no work. None of that sounds remotely sustainable and if that is your experience I recommend improving your situation as soon as possible.
varispeed 4y ago
One of the reason is that blue collar workers ceded their leverage and bargaining power to unions, that not necessarily have their best interest in mind - unions work in their own interest and that depends on how well corporations can tip that interest in their favour using brown envelopes and other ways. At the same time the power of workers being able to create their own business and sell their services have been eroded over time, to the point that in some countries it is so regulated it is almost impossible for the workers to organise in small businesses providing services.
listless 4y ago
At the risk of sounding like a terrible person, I'd like to be honest for a second about why I went to college, which is to avoid this exactly reality that you just laid out. I enlisted in the military after finding college to be too boring for my taste. 3 months later I found myself doing the hardest manual labor of my life on a riverboat for the Coast Guard. The pay was not great and nobody cared if you didn't feel like working or were exhausted. The system (as is the military) is not merit based and the guys at the top were pretty awful to the ones at the bottom. By contrast, the officers in the coast guard had nice offices, nice crisp uniforms, nice private rooms, nice private dining quarters, ect. And the difference between those two (enlisted and officer) is a college degree. What I learned is that I did not want to be an enlisted man. It's a lot of very hard work for little pay and even the highest enlisted man is still saluting the lowest officer. This was enough to galvanize me to go to college and finish as quickly as I could. Blue collar jobs are not for everyone. They were not for me. I realize the Coast Guard is not a perfect microcosm of the real world, but in a lot of ways it is. Now that I have the white collar job, I still chuckle at "mental health days" and people complaining about being "burnt out". I chuckle because I remember those days on the river, baking in the hot sun after working for 36 hours straight and how much we all would have laughed until we cried if those words had come out of someone's mouth.
- phist_mcgee 4y ago
  Both can still be valid. Mental health days are good, and burn out is a real phenomenon. It's a shame that blue collar workers don't have access to these facilities, and yes office workers are by and large 'softer' than blue collar workers. But we should fight corporations and organisations to provide those facilities for everyone, and not pick sides in a working class debate (not that you did that). All paid workers real enemy is the capital class, and we should never forget that.
  - pinkmuffinere 4y ago
    >All paid workers real enemy is the capital class, and we should never forget that. I totally agree with you up to this point, so just want to explain why i disagree with this particular point. I want better treatment for all humans, and I agree that some of the "capital class" is actively fighting this, but some is actively helping it as well. For example, I think Bill Gates, the Collison Brothers, and some of the Kennedy's have been a large net positive on humankind. Perhaps those examples aren't perfect, but at the very least we can imagine somebody belonging to the "capital class" that also helps improve conditions for everyone. I think anyone that's trying to improve the human condition is a friend.
DenverCoder99 4y ago
With the economic downturn coming, companies are really going to ask themselves who's necessary. Those white collar workers that have plenty of leisure time are going to suddenly be out of work, and will be forced into the blue collar market, only they are going to have to compete with blue collar workers that have been in the market for many more years than they have. Guess who the company's are going to hire... As for the white collar workers that made the cut, their job isn't going to be as cozy. You're trading in back-breaking work for mental-straining work with severe time constraints.
- juve1996 4y ago
  There won't be many jobs. With the boon of cheap cash trade workers also cashed in, way overcharging for work that was half as much just a decade ago. But now home sales are grinding to a halt. Cash is no longer cheap. People can no longer cash in on their equity with rates rising. Already I've had work quotes half what they were just last year. There's a reason many children of blue collar workers were told to go to college. Now we might need to readjust that thinking and balance it better. But it came from a place of understanding how hard that life can be.
Gamemaster1379 4y ago
Isn't it a false dichotomy to suggest that a degree exclusively leads to white collar jobs and no degree leads to blue collar jobs?
muyuu 4y ago
I think the article is basically about the opposite of romanticising blue-collar work. It's laying out how apprenticeships are already producing white-collar workers. In fact I don't think the existence of blue collar work is very apparent to the writer of this article, I don't know where have you seen any praise of blue collar work unless you've assumed it from the title. However from the article it's clear that those apprenticeships remain tied to an older model of apprenticeship that doesn't seek to replace most of University, and most of University needs getting replaced more than reformed.

briHass 4y ago

Anyone that hasn't done manual labor really has no idea how rough it can be. I worked as an office-furniture-mover in my early 20s (Summers in college), and some days were pretty tough. Granted, that's pretty low on the manual labor skills spectrum, but even for a guy in prime physical shape, it's tiring and has elements of danger. Now that I'm double that age, the manual labor I've done like rewiring my house, installing all my own HVAC equipment, and all the yard work for a large property is much harder. I stay sore for days, and it's easy to push too hard to get something done and get injured or overwork my body to where my heart rate stays elevated for hours. There's something to be said for working with your brain. The worst days dealing with idiot product management and never-ending Jira tickets don't compare to unloading a truck in a hot warehouse or kneeling in a crawlspace for hours re-piping a sewer line.

jletienne 4y ago
>The worst days dealing with idiot product management and never-ending Jira tickets don't compare to unloading a truck in a hot warehouse or kneeling in a crawlspace for hours re-piping a sewer line. damn i can only imagine
corbulo 4y ago
There are upsides, like a certain degree of pride from really feeling like you worked hard and going to bed truly tired. Those are the things I miss about that kind of job. Going to bed as that particular kind of tired was just awesome.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  In better shape too. Some jobs wear you out. But being on your feet all day and doing moderate heavy lifting is far better for your health than sitting down all day.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Maybe for the first decade but it's nearly impossible to avoid accumulating injuries and eventually chronic pain or disability over a whole career.
HEmanZ 4y ago
I don’t think anyone idealizes those kind of physical labor jobs. Usually “the trades” is much more skilled manual labor: plumbing, hvac, welding, specialized mechanic work and repair, woodworking/carpentry, etc. No one says people should want a life of a mover, meatpacker, or ditch digger.
- phist_mcgee 4y ago
  I think that's a cultural thing. In Australia, trade workers are very highly paid and generally very well respected in society (even day labourers). In fact many envy 'tradies' as they're called, because they can outearn white-collar workers pretty easily.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    I believe there was a comment on here earlier about how surfer tradies were the preferred partners of female doctors.
    - saalweachter 4y ago
      By surfer do you just mean "a tradesperson who surfs for fun", or is there a slang meaning there?
      - defrost 4y ago
        Literally tradespeople that surf when the breaks are good. Good job, good income, fit and healthy.
- juve1996 4y ago
  The idea that plumbers/hvac/welders etc don't have physical wear and tear is also a myth that needs dispelled.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Indeed, I've talked to a number of 20-something tradespeople in these fields and many of them already have back problems. I think if you go into the trades, you need to plan your career carefully and plan on stepping into management or business ownership by the time you reach middle age. They are hard jobs.
geomark 4y ago
I feel your pain. I worked in a furniture warehouse and delivered furniture, summers, in Phoenix.

onepointsixC 4y ago

It shouldn't be unrealistically romanticized, but with University tuitions only reaching ever higher, much faster than inflation what other good solution is there for Young Adults to get a career and secure their financial future? These options being elevated precisely because of out of control student debt and universities which face zero consequences to financially crippling their pupils.

Avshalom 4y ago
well we made university free in New Mexico, and it's free or cheap in a lot of other places.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  That’s great. I’m trying to figure out how it’s funded. Did they have to raise new funding? Levy new taxes? Just wondering how they are able to afford it. I feel like this is how colleges should be. The minimal possible tuition required to operate. It’s not like tuition increases have gone towards retaining professors or something. It’s pretty insane to think 15k/year for in state tuition is “cheap.” Edit: it seams like it’s at least partially funded by lottery tickets. Which essentially means it’s just prioritized higher than other states. Because most states find things through lottery tickets but don’t have tuition free college.
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    New Mexico (and a lot of other states) has had a lottery funded scholarship for decades. We've had an oil boom for a few years and yeah mostly funded the remainder through oil revenues/permanent fund. But yes the fundamental notion is that we decided to fund it. And that's replicable anywhere, i promise, New Mexico is q bottom 3 poorest state in the country but we decided that college was important. Florida is awful in a lot of ways but when I lived there in the mid 00's the Sunshine State Scholarship covered 100% tuition and was automatically granted for like a B+ average, an A and some community service would get you room and board. Though when I said other places i meant non-US places.

nemo44x 4y ago

If it requires a license or certification then it’s generally a well paying career with options for the ambitious. It’s why you see so many small shops because it’s very accessible to start your own business after gaining years of experience, reputation, and connections.

throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

That said, it's not uncommon to be able to find good blue collar jobs with good employers. A friend of mine worked a really shitty job for a year, to finally find a much more cushy job, but it's graveyard shift. Eventually they'll put him on day shift. But in the mean time he's earning for his family, he doesn't have to do much work, and he's studying for a degree at night. If you pick the right field, you have the right skills, and are in a hot market, trades can be very lucrative and you can be drowning in contacts. For someone who wants to be their own boss it can be very rewarding.

suzzer99 4y ago

If I was rich I would still make sure my kids worked at least one blue collar job in their teens. There's no substitute for first-hand experience in that world.

nonethewiser 4y ago
That’s pretty much all high school kids are qualified for. With some exception. Well, unskilled labor at least. Not quite synonymous with blue color but close.
- lolbert3 4y ago
  [dead]
softfalcon 4y ago
My Dad made me do this. We were well off, but he pushed me to "get a job" to buy a computer so I could study for college. I worked as a janitor and construction labourer. Taught me right quick that I DEFINITELY wanted to pursue a degree in engineering or computer science. By contrast, my brother was never pushed in this way. He went to school, got good grades, finished his degree, and then just... never worked. He's a "yet to be successful" writer now. Goodness bless his wife's heart for supporting him, cause no one else will (ironic too, cause she's blue collar). Doing some real labour early on in life distills work ethic into someone. What is shocking is how lazy people will turn out if they aren't given that push early on so they learn what's what.

iLoveOncall 4y ago

You are romanticizing white collar jobs as much as you claim people do blue collar ones.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dimal 4y ago

This comment seems out of place because most of the article was describing apprenticeships for white collar jobs, and listed a bunch of white collar industries removing their college requirements.

maximinus_thrax 4y ago
Most people just read the headline and jump to conclusions

rr808 4y ago

Its going to be fascinating how the preference for WFH affects the job market. I'd imagine on-location jobs to get paid more as supply dries up and everyone wants to work from home. Teachers/nurses/chefs were underpaid before, little wonder there is a shortage now, I expect they need much higher wages.

harvey9 4y ago
If you're in the nurse or chef employment market then I don't think you'll be affected by the WFH trend in white collar work. We already have a shortage of nurses and pay is stagnant.
nonethewiser 4y ago
Teacher salaries aren’t so flexible. It will just result in lowering the hiring standards.

twblalock 4y ago

Exactly. This is why every tradesman I know wants their kids to go to college.

rthomas6 4y ago

While this is all true, the article is about white collar apprenticeships.

Taikonerd 4y ago
Found the guy who actually read the article!

harvey9 4y ago

I worked in a call center for a while. I'd call it light blue collar work. You don't get to listen to podcasts but these days you might get a remote position. Physical risk is mostly limited to RSI I guess.

mikeg8 4y ago
A call center is probably as opposite of blue collar as it gets. The term “blue collar” comes from the blue collards shirts factory and industrial workers used to wear, and is now synonymous with manual labor. There is nothing remotely close to manual labor at a call center. You just had the lowest tier of a white collar job.
- harvey9 4y ago
  The similarity is around control of the workers time in a 'production line' fashion. (I have also worked in a factory on a line). You're correct about the origin of the term now collar. In places where deindustrialization has cleared out most production jobs, call center work is one of the things that replaced them.

wanderingmind 4y ago

While agreeing with all your points, I think blue collar jobs will get their mojo back soon, especially something not a repeat work, as they will be one of the few jobs that will remain after LLM and AI has automated most of the desk jobs (or at least severely reduced the number of people needed to be employed in them).

nonethewiser 4y ago
It’s also far more durable. Your startup might disappear in a downturn but your furnace won’t.

jseliger 4y ago

As someone who has taught college, off and on, for many years, people should also be wary of romanticizing college. The question is always "relative to what?" Anyway, the move towards apprenticeships has arguably been underway for years: https://seliger.com/2017/06/16/rare-good-political-news-boosting-apprenticeships/ https://seliger.com/2017/06/16/rare-good-political-news-boos...

brightball 4y ago

Depends on the job I think. Every person I know who does any type of home contracting work that I know of is drowning in business and raising rates because of it. - HVAC - Plumbing - Electrical - General Contractor - Drywall specialists - Roofers

specialist 4y ago
My millenial aged kid became an electrician. Mostly residential. Mostly remodel (vs new construction). The type of clientile that want fancy lights and legit security systems. And now early adopters of solar, batteries, and EVs. He'll have plenty of work for decades. It is hard on the body though. Which is why he stayed residential. So he claims; I would have guessed new construction commercial would easiest physically. Especially if you specialize (eg elevators).

nonethewiser 4y ago

I think we need to be careful about romanticizing chilling on the job and being sent home early because there is no work. None of that sounds remotely sustainable and if that is your experience I recommend improving your situation as soon as possible.

varispeed 4y ago

One of the reason is that blue collar workers ceded their leverage and bargaining power to unions, that not necessarily have their best interest in mind - unions work in their own interest and that depends on how well corporations can tip that interest in their favour using brown envelopes and other ways. At the same time the power of workers being able to create their own business and sell their services have been eroded over time, to the point that in some countries it is so regulated it is almost impossible for the workers to organise in small businesses providing services.

listless 4y ago

At the risk of sounding like a terrible person, I'd like to be honest for a second about why I went to college, which is to avoid this exactly reality that you just laid out. I enlisted in the military after finding college to be too boring for my taste. 3 months later I found myself doing the hardest manual labor of my life on a riverboat for the Coast Guard. The pay was not great and nobody cared if you didn't feel like working or were exhausted. The system (as is the military) is not merit based and the guys at the top were pretty awful to the ones at the bottom. By contrast, the officers in the coast guard had nice offices, nice crisp uniforms, nice private rooms, nice private dining quarters, ect. And the difference between those two (enlisted and officer) is a college degree. What I learned is that I did not want to be an enlisted man. It's a lot of very hard work for little pay and even the highest enlisted man is still saluting the lowest officer. This was enough to galvanize me to go to college and finish as quickly as I could. Blue collar jobs are not for everyone. They were not for me. I realize the Coast Guard is not a perfect microcosm of the real world, but in a lot of ways it is. Now that I have the white collar job, I still chuckle at "mental health days" and people complaining about being "burnt out". I chuckle because I remember those days on the river, baking in the hot sun after working for 36 hours straight and how much we all would have laughed until we cried if those words had come out of someone's mouth.

phist_mcgee 4y ago
Both can still be valid. Mental health days are good, and burn out is a real phenomenon. It's a shame that blue collar workers don't have access to these facilities, and yes office workers are by and large 'softer' than blue collar workers. But we should fight corporations and organisations to provide those facilities for everyone, and not pick sides in a working class debate (not that you did that). All paid workers real enemy is the capital class, and we should never forget that.
- pinkmuffinere 4y ago
  >All paid workers real enemy is the capital class, and we should never forget that. I totally agree with you up to this point, so just want to explain why i disagree with this particular point. I want better treatment for all humans, and I agree that some of the "capital class" is actively fighting this, but some is actively helping it as well. For example, I think Bill Gates, the Collison Brothers, and some of the Kennedy's have been a large net positive on humankind. Perhaps those examples aren't perfect, but at the very least we can imagine somebody belonging to the "capital class" that also helps improve conditions for everyone. I think anyone that's trying to improve the human condition is a friend.

DenverCoder99 4y ago

With the economic downturn coming, companies are really going to ask themselves who's necessary. Those white collar workers that have plenty of leisure time are going to suddenly be out of work, and will be forced into the blue collar market, only they are going to have to compete with blue collar workers that have been in the market for many more years than they have. Guess who the company's are going to hire... As for the white collar workers that made the cut, their job isn't going to be as cozy. You're trading in back-breaking work for mental-straining work with severe time constraints.

juve1996 4y ago
There won't be many jobs. With the boon of cheap cash trade workers also cashed in, way overcharging for work that was half as much just a decade ago. But now home sales are grinding to a halt. Cash is no longer cheap. People can no longer cash in on their equity with rates rising. Already I've had work quotes half what they were just last year. There's a reason many children of blue collar workers were told to go to college. Now we might need to readjust that thinking and balance it better. But it came from a place of understanding how hard that life can be.

Gamemaster1379 4y ago

Isn't it a false dichotomy to suggest that a degree exclusively leads to white collar jobs and no degree leads to blue collar jobs?

muyuu 4y ago

I think the article is basically about the opposite of romanticising blue-collar work. It's laying out how apprenticeships are already producing white-collar workers. In fact I don't think the existence of blue collar work is very apparent to the writer of this article, I don't know where have you seen any praise of blue collar work unless you've assumed it from the title. However from the article it's clear that those apprenticeships remain tied to an older model of apprenticeship that doesn't seek to replace most of University, and most of University needs getting replaced more than reformed.