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Americans Head to Europe for the Good Life on the Cheap
- sherilm 4y agohttp://archive.today/P2arj http://archive.today/P2arj
- GenerWork 4y agoAlways interesting to read about why Americans move to Europe. I noticed nobody said anything about healthcare. Instead, it seemed to be more about culture and walkability.
- chitowneats 4y agoDo Americans on visa get to benefit from universal healthcare? Surely not. They pay for it though. Edit: I was wrong. Thanks for correcting me.
- crazygringo 4y agoI went to the medical center and then a hospital multiple times while on a month long trip in Spain and Portugal -- came down with a weird bronchitis thing affecting my breathing. It was 100% free. So I definitely got free health care on a tourist visa as an American.
- Symbiote 4y agoOfficially, they will only treat life-treatening problems for free, for tourists. In reality, if the person doesn't seem to be trying to take advantage of the system, I'd not be surprised that hospital staff don't bother sorting out billing the patient.
- shawabawa3 4y agoIn most EU countries if you get a job you will have access to universal healthcare immediately If not, private healthcare is peanuts compared to the us (think $200/month no deductible no limit)
- coldtea 4y agoEven $200 is too much in most European countries for private health insurance. $50 is more like it.
- Scoundreller 4y agoOfficially you don't have that universal healthcare as a non-resident. Reality is hit or miss. As most EU medical systems are not really geared toward private billing, if you go to a government-run medical centre for something small, it's going to be more effort for them to figure out how to bill you, so they don't. Sometimes tourist-heavy places will definitely be set up to get you to pay, other times they just see treating actually minorly-ill tourists for low/no-cost as a cost of being a tourist-dependent area. Sometimes the anecdotes about only having to pay 20 EUR at the hospital were really the salaried clinic doctor squeezing some EUR out of you that really should have been paid to the state. Other times, if you go to a private-clinic doctor solo, they'll likely make you pre-pay. But if it's your local family's doctor, they may see you for free on a goodwill-basis, or fraudulently bill your local family member's plan and/or write any prescription in their name.
- bennysonething 4y agoI'm not sure why there is an assumption that the health care is good in Portugal. Purely annecdotal, the only Portuguese person I know moved to UK to work as a cleaner. She couldn't find work in Portugal that would pay enough to allow her to survive. Also she moved her dad over too because he need health care and needed to be near family. I've never looked into, I just assumed that the economy and it's health care aren't great.
- pydry 4y agoThis might be more a reflection of the NY Times advertiser driven editorial choices than why they did it.
- jhbadger 4y agoLack of universal healthcare in the US isn't that big a deal to the upper-class/upper-middle class people we are talking about becoming expats because the professional jobs they tend to hold generally have very good health plans. Obviously it's a big deal for working class people as their jobs generally come with limited or no health care plans, but they don't seem to be moving to Europe.
- eliaspro 4y agoI wonder how much further the situation in the US has to deteriorate until we stop referring to those moving to Europe as Expats and call them Refugees? This term seems to be reserved (with an often racist/classist connotation) for people from the global south.
- trh0awayman 4y agoI've found that it's the other way around, Europeans want to call Americans refugees because they themselves use it as an insult. If I started introducing myself as a refugee/migrant worker at my tech job, people would think I'm making some kind of sick joke.
- jhbadger 4y agoIt's been used whenever there were people moving out of real need rather than convenience or adventure. There was no question that Jews fleeing Europe in the 1930s/1940s were refugees even if they were white and upper class.
- yurishimo 4y agoOr immigrants! I moved to NL (but took a local job at a local salary) and I don't plan to go back to the US. Obviously life happens and I can't predict the future, but I would not be surprised if I am applying for citizenship after my children become adults.
- Symbiote 4y agoCheck whether it might make sense to apply before. I don't know the situation in the Netherlands, but it might simplify your children acquiring Dutch citizenship.
- hsodjskdkdn 4y agoI lived in Europe when the dollar was worth 4 DM - let me tell you, that was cheap.
- Scoundreller 4y agoShould have gone to the Euro places that used dinars and you would've needed to buy pants with bigger pockets after visiting the bureau de change.
- water-your-self 4y agoGood so America creates individualist wealth so that it can pick up and leave, taking assets with it. Im certain americans are happy to pay the price of privatized healthcare for this sake.
- Scoundreller 4y agoAsk yourself where Lisbon and Portugal got the resources to build itself up in the way it has and it's the same story.
- danielfoster 4y ago>Since arriving in Lisbon, he joined a father’s group called Expat Dudes and Dads, and his son is learning Portuguese in preschool. “Lisbon means safe harbor,” he said. “My family needed safe harbor and we found it here.” This is a very poorly thought-out statement. There's no reason why an upper middle-class family shouldn't be able to move to Europe, but claiming to need a "safe harbor" is a bit of a stretch.
- gumby 4y agoDon't read too much into it. I doubt he would have thought to say that had he not lived in a town where the remark was possible. And something like that is irresistible to a reporter.
- danielfoster 4y agoThis is a very good point— thank you.
- DrNosferatu 4y agoTax these wealthy nomads and build new affordable housing with that money!
- DrNosferatu 4y agoPretty obvious solution, and not taking it (or something else of similar effective reach - ie.: something that yields more housing for ordinary people to live in, ASAP), makes it very difficult to falsify the thesis that officials and politicians just work for their own personal direct interest, rather than the interests of their voters. It was exactly the same thing with the EU contracts with the Covid19 vaccine manufacturers.
- ClapperHeid 4y agoWhy not? It's always fun to visit the colonies.
- lwansbrough 4y agoToo bad America bulldozed all their beautiful cities to put in highways. Imagine the prosperity and culture the US would have if every city was as walkable/transitable as New York. America has one city that allowed itself to grow naturally and it became the economic Mecca of the world.
- reducesuffering 4y agoIs it though? On a per-capita basis it's far outclassed by the Bay Area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_area...
- alephnerd 4y agoMost T2/3/4 North American cities (even the rust belt ones) have Economic indicators comparable to T1 cities in other European countries. Using State+Provincial Level HDI as a proxy, entire States+Provinces [0][1] are comparable to entire Tier 1 European countries [2] on a socioeconomic basis. When you look at purely economic indicators such as GDP/GDP Per Capita the same story holds [3][4][5] If you're complaining about urban planning around walkability, you will need to specify which European cities you are comparing to, and which American cities as well. It's unfair to compare a Tier 2/3 North American city like SLC or Phoenix or Vancouver to London or Paris when those cities are the Primate Cities of their entire country. Comparing cities like London/Paris/Frankfurt to NYC or Berlin to DC or Munich to the SF Bay makes more sense. And finally, the kind of suburbanization you're complaining about is VERY common in Europe as well. Also, here is the ranking of cities globally by influence and economic power - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Citi... [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_... [2] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_a... [3]- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... [4] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_a... [5] - https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/UVK/EURO/EU https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/UVK/EURO...
- TurkishPoptart 4y agoThe main hindrance for U.S. remote workers is the timezone difference. I suppose you can rectify it with mostly asynchronous work, but it would be hard with a meeting-heavy job to work nights and sleep during the day.
- Scoundreller 4y agoLisbon is only 5h later than NYC (except right now when it's 4h due to DST change mismatch between Americas and Europe). If your office in NYC could start at 7AM, you would start at noon and finish an 8h day at 8PM, just in time, or maybe a little early, for portuguese dinner time. But doesn't work out as nicely if you're trying to match a California time zone
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- inglor_cz 4y agoSo, Canary Islands or Madeira and work for an East Coast company?
- hsjqllzlfkf 4y agoThe problem with a lot of these people is they don't integrate with the local communities, normally by not learning the language.
- landemva 4y agohttps://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g189154-Cascais_Lisbon_District_Central_Portugal-Vacations.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g189154-Cascais_Lisbon_D... I lived in expat-friendly suburb of Lisbon, Cascais, and commuted into Lisbon or airport as needed. Terrible rush hour traffic, though it was years ago.
- rismaflow 4y agoThe upside is that they may be bringing in lots of knowledge and wealth. If handled properly that’s a boon for the local people and economy. Everybody wants to hate, but if you are a local and able to get in contact with these people there can be a huge benefit to you too.
- silisili 4y agoSuch a bad take. These people aren't there to share money, or knowledge. They're there to live like royalty while paying as little as possible. I mean, that pretty much sums up everybody, but it seems to only be the upper classes who paint it as altruistic.
- throwayyy479087 4y agoFunny when this applies to Americans and not immigrant enclaves within America. Failure to integrate is a huge issue, and it's currently tearing the UK and Sweden apart
- MonaroVXR 4y agoAnd Denmark and the Netherlands according to several. But that's what I hear.
- jdmoreira 4y agoThis is terrible. I'm Portuguese and lived in Lisbon for 12 years before moving to northern Europe. I lived in this exact neighborhood (C. de Ourique) in fact I lived meters away from where the photo was taken. Half my family was born and raised there. Each time I go back I get sick to my stomach because it's obvious that society is getting segregated into two independent and very different groups with very different wealth levels and purchase power. The locals are just servants to these "expats". I blame the local politicians of course. They always wanted to get rich on the real estate and they have pulled it off.
- alephnerd 4y agoI heard Portuguese elected officials started rolling back a lot of legislation that was tourist/investor oriented like the investor visa and digital nomad oriented legislation due to political blowback. Is that not the case?
- jdmoreira 4y agoVery recently yes. Hasn't been approved yet. But it's kind of irrelevant because they already cashed out
- alephnerd 4y agoAh that makes sense. Honestly really sad to see the political mismanagement in Portugal. I've met a couple Portuguese diaspora members and they are great people, but it's so sad how the only option to build a strong career is to go abroad to London, Spain, or France despite Portugal having increasingly decent higher educational programs.
- amai 4y agoSee also https://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-balance https://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-...
- nobodyandproud 4y agoThe closest historical analogue I can think of to this is FILTH (failed in London, try Hong Kong).