4 ms·
Gig workers aren't quite contractors and aren't quite employees. Maybe need a third class of worker.
by TulliusCicero 4y ago
Gig workers aren't quite contractors and aren't quite employees. Maybe need a third class of worker.
- xyst 4y ago“Hustler” economy
- chii 4y agoBut what properties and laws would apply to this class of worker?
- kwhitefoot 4y agoThe general rule in Europe is that "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then we treat it like a duck." That is employment and tax authorities don't care what your and your employer call yourselves but they do care about the conditions under which you work. In the UK, for instance, if you are a contractor you can send someone else in your stead to do the work, if you are an employee you obviously can't. So that alone can distinguish between real contractors and actual employees. I'm not a lawyer so take all this with the necessary quantities of salt.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- throwawaythrow1 4y agoIR35 is a ridiculous law. "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then we treat it like a duck." I can walk and quack rather convincingly like a duck, but I'm not a duck and any casual observer would agree. The metaphor provided puts the emphasis on the behaviour of the individual, whereas the behaviour of the hirer/employer is rarely considered... For example, can the contractor be promoted? Can they be given a disciplinary procedure with Union representation? If the contractor has an accident, does the insurance of the company pay for it or does the insurance of the contractor pay for it? Does the contractor have protections from bullying and discrimination?
- notahacker 4y agoThe point of IR35 wasn't to make it easy for employers to relieve themselves of their usual obligations to people they demand exclusive full time work from by saying "sign this anti-Union waiver and you'll get tax breaks (and so will we!)" And criteria like whether the nominal contractor has any choice of workplace and schedule is absolutely about the behaviour of the hirer/employer.
- counttheforks 4y agoI doubt that, but feel free to upload a youtube video.
- netheril96 4y agoA separate set of dedicated laws of course.
- LatteLazy 4y agoYeah, but we can't possibly add a third category, we have to try and force everyone into one of 2 groups created in the 50s...
- iLoveOncall 4y agoPaid per hour, free to chose their working hours, free to work for multiple employers at the same time, etc. How are they not contractors? They're way more contractors than the contractors that were working 9 to 5, 5 days a week, for years, for my FAANG.
- joker99 4y agoBut the fee/payment is dictated by the company which takes away a significant part of autonomy I guess
- fallingknife 4y agoWhat does this have to do with being a contractor vs employee. I negotiated my salary. Does that make me a contractor?
- Rebelgecko 4y agoAlthough they have the ability to turn down a ride if the fee isn't high enough, and the price will go up until someone accepts it. I see Uber drivers do this a lot in geofenced areas to jack up the price
- throwawayiddqd 4y agoI do not think they can choose their working hours, their income does not allow this freedom. Not US, but I did some study on Ukraine immigrants in Poland, etc, they work as self-employed at factories, like LG and Samsung and even make some parts for Porsche cars. A luxury made by slavery, 12 h/day, 6 days a week and minimum hour rate.
- IshKebab 4y agoYeah people have real difficulty dealing with things that don't fit neatly into existing categories. I imagine when smartphones were first introduced people had debates about whether they were phones or computers.
- itisit 4y agoSpeaking for the rest of humanity: no, we did not have debates as to whether smartphones are phones or computers.
- nunez 4y agothe closest analog i can think of are paid volunteers like people who take usability studies. they have the flexibility of contractors (they can show up, work as much or as little as they want, and stop whenever they want) but their compensation is set by whomever requisitioned them.
- stonogo 4y agoThat's still contract work, it's just shitty contract work. Do you think day laborers get to set their own rates? There is absolutely nothing unique about these operations in the US, except they have the sheen of SV exceptionalism.