6 ms·

IQ scores in the US have fallen for the first time in decades

19 points by xqcgrek2 4y ago

wolverine876 4y ago
Also: * Life expectancy has been dropping, beginning from before the pandemic. When I read about it before the pandemic, the US was the only wealthy country with this problem, and was dropping into the range of 'middle income' countries like Poland. * Height (i.e., how tall you are) has also been delcining. It turns out that if you don't provide social programs like health care, food, etc., people are less healthy.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  It turns out if you use human beings as livestock to get rid of heavily subsidized grain under the guise of "national security" people get more unhealthy too. We pretty much subsidize an unhealthy population while underfunding care.
starside 4y ago
Maybe there is some deep reason, but you also can't expect an increase forever.
- rcme 4y ago
  I disagree that you can't expect it to increase forever (it's like saying you can't expect evolution to go on forever), but why would you expect IQ to decrease rather than plateau?
  - nhchris 4y ago
    A movie was filmed to answer your question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy A comedy, but based in fact - e.g. educational attainment is inversely correlated with fertility. For a less individual view, you can visit Wikipedia's list of countries by fertility rate, and sort them by said rate.
    - slaw 4y ago
      The first few minutes is documentary.
    - zem 4y ago
      There are no grounds to argue that there are distinct subpopulations of people with different potentials for intelligence. Genes flow fluidly — if you sneer at the underclass and think your line is superior, I suspect you won't have to go back very many generations to find your stock comes out of that same seething mob. Do you have any Irish, or Jewish, or Italian, or Native American, or Asian, or whatever (literally—it's hard to find any ethnic origin that wasn't despised at some time) in your ancestry? Go back a hundred years or so, and your great- or great-great-grandparents were regarded as apes or subhumans or mentally deficient lackeys suitable only for menial labor. Are you staring aghast at the latest cluster of immigrants in this country, are you fretting that they're breeding like rabbits? That generation of children will be the people your kids grow up with, go to school with, date, and marry. It may take a while, but eventually, your line will merge with theirs. Presuming you propagate at all, your genes are destined to disperse into that great living pool of humanity. Get used to it. Furthermore, intelligence is an incredibly plastic property of the brain. You can nurture it or you can squelch it — the marching morons will birth children with as much potential as a pair of science-fiction geeks, and all that will matter is how well that mind is encouraged to grow. Even a few centuries is not enough to breed stupidity into a natural population of humans — that brain power may lay fallow and undernourished, but there isn't enough time nor enough pressure to make substantial changes in the overall genetics of the brain. -- https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/08/there-are-no-marching-morons https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/08/there-are-no-...
      - nhchris 4y ago
        Early twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%, with some recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80% - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ > Are you staring aghast at the latest cluster of immigrants in this country, are you fretting that they're breeding like rabbits? That generation of children will be the people your kids grow up with, go to school with, date, and marry. It may take a while, but eventually, your line will merge with theirs. Please don't spread the great replacement conspiracy theory. > There are no grounds to argue that there are distinct subpopulations of people with different potentials for intelligence. Genes flow fluidly I don't see why we need to talk about "distinct subpopulations" at all, when individuals suffice. Besides, if you think "gene flow" means intelligence is immune to evolution, doesn't that apply to every other trait as well? What you're arguing is that evolution doesn't happen.
searealist 4y ago
This is where everyone has to pretend this has nothing to do with immigration. It must be social media or maybe we don’t pay teachers enough…
- aaron695 4y ago
  [dead]
- KwisatzHaderack 4y ago
  I’m assuming you’re implying this has to do with immigration. Care to elaborate and/or back it up with citations?
- lostlogin 4y ago
  How would that work? When scores were good it definitely wasn’t immigrants but now it’s falling it definitely is? For what it’s worth, here is a graph of immigrant population over time. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-finding...
  - searealist 4y ago
    Would you be surprised to learn that states with high immigration have a lower average IQ than states with lower immigration? Do you think California has always been ranked 47/50 in average IQ? Here is some government data: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8954344/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8954344/
  - nhchris 4y ago
    Are all immigrant populations interchangeable?
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  You mean we didn’t accept enough smart immigrants bc covid and idiotic uscis roadblocks right?
- nigrioid 4y ago
whatever1 4y ago
Or we can discuss whether IQ is relevant at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555229
mrlonglong 4y ago
Personally I'm blaming Trumpers and loco god-botherers. Same is happening with "Tories" in the UK. We're all doomed anyway.

19 points by xqcgrek2 4y ago

Also: * Life expectancy has been dropping, beginning from before the pandemic. When I read about it before the pandemic, the US was the only wealthy country with this problem, and was dropping into the range of 'middle income' countries like Poland. * Height (i.e., how tall you are) has also been delcining. It turns out that if you don't provide social programs like health care, food, etc., people are less healthy.

BoorishBears 4y ago
It turns out if you use human beings as livestock to get rid of heavily subsidized grain under the guise of "national security" people get more unhealthy too. We pretty much subsidize an unhealthy population while underfunding care.

starside 4y ago

Maybe there is some deep reason, but you also can't expect an increase forever.

rcme 4y ago
I disagree that you can't expect it to increase forever (it's like saying you can't expect evolution to go on forever), but why would you expect IQ to decrease rather than plateau?
- nhchris 4y ago
  A movie was filmed to answer your question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy A comedy, but based in fact - e.g. educational attainment is inversely correlated with fertility. For a less individual view, you can visit Wikipedia's list of countries by fertility rate, and sort them by said rate.
  - slaw 4y ago
    The first few minutes is documentary.
  - zem 4y ago
    There are no grounds to argue that there are distinct subpopulations of people with different potentials for intelligence. Genes flow fluidly — if you sneer at the underclass and think your line is superior, I suspect you won't have to go back very many generations to find your stock comes out of that same seething mob. Do you have any Irish, or Jewish, or Italian, or Native American, or Asian, or whatever (literally—it's hard to find any ethnic origin that wasn't despised at some time) in your ancestry? Go back a hundred years or so, and your great- or great-great-grandparents were regarded as apes or subhumans or mentally deficient lackeys suitable only for menial labor. Are you staring aghast at the latest cluster of immigrants in this country, are you fretting that they're breeding like rabbits? That generation of children will be the people your kids grow up with, go to school with, date, and marry. It may take a while, but eventually, your line will merge with theirs. Presuming you propagate at all, your genes are destined to disperse into that great living pool of humanity. Get used to it. Furthermore, intelligence is an incredibly plastic property of the brain. You can nurture it or you can squelch it — the marching morons will birth children with as much potential as a pair of science-fiction geeks, and all that will matter is how well that mind is encouraged to grow. Even a few centuries is not enough to breed stupidity into a natural population of humans — that brain power may lay fallow and undernourished, but there isn't enough time nor enough pressure to make substantial changes in the overall genetics of the brain. -- https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/08/there-are-no-marching-morons https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/08/there-are-no-...
    - nhchris 4y ago
      Early twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%, with some recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80% - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ > Are you staring aghast at the latest cluster of immigrants in this country, are you fretting that they're breeding like rabbits? That generation of children will be the people your kids grow up with, go to school with, date, and marry. It may take a while, but eventually, your line will merge with theirs. Please don't spread the great replacement conspiracy theory. > There are no grounds to argue that there are distinct subpopulations of people with different potentials for intelligence. Genes flow fluidly I don't see why we need to talk about "distinct subpopulations" at all, when individuals suffice. Besides, if you think "gene flow" means intelligence is immune to evolution, doesn't that apply to every other trait as well? What you're arguing is that evolution doesn't happen.

searealist 4y ago

This is where everyone has to pretend this has nothing to do with immigration. It must be social media or maybe we don’t pay teachers enough…

aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
KwisatzHaderack 4y ago
I’m assuming you’re implying this has to do with immigration. Care to elaborate and/or back it up with citations?
lostlogin 4y ago
How would that work? When scores were good it definitely wasn’t immigrants but now it’s falling it definitely is? For what it’s worth, here is a graph of immigrant population over time. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-finding...
- searealist 4y ago
  Would you be surprised to learn that states with high immigration have a lower average IQ than states with lower immigration? Do you think California has always been ranked 47/50 in average IQ? Here is some government data: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8954344/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8954344/
- nhchris 4y ago
  Are all immigrant populations interchangeable?
dilyevsky 4y ago
You mean we didn’t accept enough smart immigrants bc covid and idiotic uscis roadblocks right?
nigrioid 4y ago

whatever1 4y ago

Or we can discuss whether IQ is relevant at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555229

mrlonglong 4y ago

Personally I'm blaming Trumpers and loco god-botherers. Same is happening with "Tories" in the UK. We're all doomed anyway.