7 ms·
Viable superconducting material created in Rochester lab
- ortusdux 4y agoPrevious discussion / more context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35070643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35070643
- ISL 4y agoVery important context: https://physics.aps.org/articles/v16/39 https://physics.aps.org/articles/v16/39
- Beldin 4y agoAlso: https://physics.aps.org/articles/v16/40 https://physics.aps.org/articles/v16/40 In a nutshell: a previous close-to-room-temp superconduction article from this group was retracted from Nature due to two main concerns; (1) a diagram of a measurement needed to confirm superconductivity seemed a lot like one from a 2009 paper, (2) no one else was able to create this material. Oh and that measurement in the 2009 paper was done by the same scientist as the measurement in the retracted paper - and is the source of why the 2009 paper is also under suspicion. Moreover, it turns out the principal investigator's doctoral thesis has copied substantially from another thesis without proper attribution. So it seems many are taking a "let's wait and see" approach.
- ttyprintk 4y agoThis article claims they demoed successfully in front of scientists at a national lab.
- boxed 4y agoThe question is: was it demoed in front of a magician? I'd like a scientist AND a professional magician present. It was the key to debunking the homeopathy story that went into Nature.
- Agingcoder 4y agoCould you please elaborate?
- thombat 4y agoWhatever the form of a demonstration, if potential fraud is a concern then you want somebody with expertise in fraud in that domain. So for a demonstration that is statistical, a hotshot statistician is needed. For a physical demonstration you want a hotshot manipulator of the physical world, such as a practical magician. Somebody who already knows a long list of techniques and trade secrets for appearing to defy known.
- gus_massa 4y agoMoreover, the demonstration is very indirect, like watching a curve in an oscilloscope, not a flying orb that can be seen directly. We worked with a high temperature (i.e. liquid nitrogen [1]) ambient pressure superconductor. The experiment was quite unimpressive. You put the small block inside liquid nitrogen, with enough wires [2] and a thermocouple to measure the temperature, and connect it to an oscilloscope. You watch how the temperature decrees in the thermocouple and hope the drawing in the oscilloscope does something weird. There is a lot of room to connect the wires to another device [3], or just show fake data in the oscilloscope. [4] [1] "high temperature" means more than −195.8 °C = −320 °F = 77 K, that is quite cold for most people [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing [3] For example, in the OP, they can have a fake ambient temperature superconductor, and connect that cables to a real liquid nitrogen temperature superconductor that is in another room and is put inside and outside the nitrogen by a hidden person. [4] We had some problems with our superconductor, and we wanted to repeat some measurements. It was sensitive to humidity, and it worked quite well until another student wanted have another stable temperature to compare, and put it in water with ice :( .
- boxed 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benveniste_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benveniste_affair
- tetrep 4y agoThere's a reason why the science community demands rigorous papers and not "you saw it with your own eyes so it must be true." See also: Professional illusionists.
- sgt101 4y agoI would like to hear that details were provided to independent experimentalists who then replicated the material and demonstrated its properties. This would make me feel very confident.
- ThePhysicist 4y agoI'm also a bit skeptical given they plan to commercialize this and refuse to release any real information about their fabrication process. Would not be the first breakthrough result that can't be replicated, and as the group has already tampered with data before it's not improbable that this is the case again, from a purely Bayesian point of view. If I was to make such a discovery I'd be hell-bent to have other labs reproduce it independently as fast as possible, as that would, with very high likelihood, earn me a Nobel prize. Not releasing any information about my wonder material because I might want to get a patent on it (which they probably already filed before publishing results anyway) seems just weird.
- patientplatypus 4y agoYeah...there's been so many papers that have been redacted for bad science that have been displayed here on HackerNews that it's disheartening. The largest startup bank goes bust because startups can't do the math, and people are claiming miraculous breakthroughs in medicine and hard sciences. And they're both on the same page - I know that the comments section is automated, but it's automated tone deafness. Maybe post this again when it's replicated?
- aesh2Xa1 4y ago> Given the importance of the new discovery, Dias and his team went to unusual lengths to document their research and head off criticism that developed in the wake of the previous Nature paper, which led to a retraction by the journal’s editors. That previous paper has been resubmitted to Nature with new data that validates the earlier work, according to Dias. The new data was collected outside the lab, at the Argonne and Brookhaven National Laboratories in front of an audience of scientists who saw the superconducting transition live. A similar approach has been taken with the new paper.
- adamsmith143 4y agoUntil this replicated by another lab I'd say we can't take it at face value not just because the same lab was forced to retract another groundbreaking paper because of questionable results but also because this would be a monumental discovery and needs verification.
- Prcmaker 4y agoWhy be a party of the community if you, as it seems, dislike it so? I don't understand the frequent complaining across various forums where people actively participate in something where they have no obligation to do so.
- aww_dang 4y agoThere's always room for improvement. This is a defining characteristic of the human condition.
- moh_maya 4y agohttps://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/room-temperature-superconductor-works-at-lower-pressures/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/room-temperature-sup... Good article that contextualises the results and concerns about the lab that published these results.
- computerdork 4y agoThis is a good article explaining the entire situation, thanks!
- bioemerl 4y agoI hate these websites that load an auto play video with no user interaction.
- dcre 4y agoAgree. My ad blocker blocks it. https://ublockorigin.com/ https://ublockorigin.com/
- Tagbert 4y agoWhich website do you mean? There is no video on that Ars Technica article and the original article just has a standard YouTube video player with no autoplay.
- lostmsu 4y agoHow do you do that? I thought browsers don't play anything these days until you click on something.
- consp 4y agoThe use of F and Bar/Psi made me stop reading as every other text in this field always uses K and Pa and I had no reference what they meant. I know bar and Pa can be easily converted but they are odd scales to use.
- pezezin 4y agoBar is very commonly used for vacuum systems, although recently I heard some of my co-workers demanding to use Pa, so it may change in the future.
- kataklasm 4y agoWhile I agree F should never be used in favor of K, bar is a common unit of pressure even in metric engineering projects. For strict calculations only using SI units is obviously the way to go. But for science communication and general conversation about engineering, just using bar is often a more easily understood unit because there are more day-to-day comparisons that the average person can make. And thus oftentimes it's easier to comprehend bar than it is Pa.
- Dylan16807 4y agoDude, you can figure out Bar without a guide. Do you complain about angstroms?
- ggm 4y agoThe important thing with any superconducting discovery is the operating temperature and pressure. In a historic achievement, University of Rochester researchers have created a superconducting material at both a temperature and pressure low enough for practical applications. 20 ℃ and 10 kilobars pressure. The temp, I like. the pressure, I don't see how this is practical in engineering deployment. I'd trade some of that heat to get less pressure at this point, contrary to normal "warmer is better" -so what reduction in pressure for what degrees C of cooler temp? (not an engineer or materials physics person)
- koolala 4y agoMaterials can be pressurized in other materials. Like a soda can. Curious to see what materials can easily handle maintaining 10 kilobars of pressure. ChatGPT says Titanium, Tungsten, and Stainless Steel can handle above 10k. Even carbon fiber can. Imagine a tiny resistor-like component where inside is pressurized superconductor. Like a tiny capacitor.
- vermilingua 4y agoImagine dropping your phone and instead of the screen cracking, the chassis blasts apart. Pressurising materials using other solids doesn’t disappear the energy needed to maintain the pressure.
- Dylan16807 4y agoFunny you mention glass cracking because tempered glass has the same kind of internal pressure. Safety glass on a car has nearly a kilobar. It breaks up without blasting apart.
- snovv_crash 4y agoPressure != Energy. If it's a very stiff (aka brittle) material, then it doesn't deform enough to actually contain much energy even at high pressure.
- dermesser 4y ago
- fbdab103 4y agoLet's say there was a superconducting material that operated at atmospheric pressure and 25C. While waving the magic wand, let us also pretend it costs $1000/kg. What are the immediate applications for such a thing? I can trivially imagine long distance electrical cables, but HVDC is already pretty efficient. Would maglev applications suddenly become more widespread? Anything involving magnets (MRI, NMR) could maybe gain resolution? Are there revolutionary applications just waiting for this material? Not at all to be dismissive, but I am genuinely curious what opportunities this could create.
- notfed 4y agoNuclear fusion strongly depends on superconductors.
- ajuc 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ...
- MengerSponge 4y agoThe resolution of MRI/NMR is more limited by pulse sequence design and magnetic gradient control. The cryogenics built into the scanner don't contribute meaningfully to those. Instead, you'd gain a huge amount of portability and/or a huge reduction in cost/complexity. You can't spell cryogenics without "cry", and being able to sustain a large field without needing cryocoolers or a wet system would lead to impossible-to-imagine gains. Medical/industrial imaging, maglev (for sure), even fundamental physics would hugely benefit from the tech.
- valine 4y agoWhat about magnetic confinement fusion? My understanding was that tokamaks use superconductors to produce their magnetic fields. Does a low temperature superconductor help with that?
- fabian2k 4y agoFor NMR the resolution depends directly on the strength of the magnetic field, so if those superconductors allow higher magnetic fields they also increase resolution. See e.g. the new Bruker 1.2 GHz NMR spectrometer which uses some high-temperature superconductors while the spectrometers with conventional superconductors could not get higher than 1 GHz. There are other effects at higher fields that are not necessarily positive, so just cranking up the field has limits. But in general higher fields provide more resolution and sensitivity in NMR, and it's quite a big increase.
- Geee 4y agoHow to make this at home? It needs lutetium, hydrogen and nitrogen.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- stevespang 4y ago[dead]
- cowLamp 4y agoIsn't the same scientist that got a paper retracted for postulating the same in an article some years ago connected to this too?
- iamwpj 4y agoYep! Hit pause on the results until peer validation comes through
- Havoc 4y agoI love how it looks like something straight out of Wakanda universe