10 ms·
Audio engineer explains NPR's signature sound (2015)
- broof 4y agoHuh. This was written by Adam Ragusea who now runs a successful cooking YouTube channel. I had to double check it was the same person… wonder how that career transition happened
- java-man 4y agoNeeds (2015) in the title.
- pestatije 4y agoAlso needs NPR (National Public Radio)...cmon guys this is not your backyard site!
- gjvc 4y agoHow has the subject matter changed since then?
- mastazi 4y agoProbably quite a bit, given that a good part of the article is about specific pieces of audio equipment.
- jolux 4y agoMicrophones don't change all that fast. The Neumann U87 dates from the 1960s IIRC.
- sdenton4 4y agoAnd at $4k a pop, probably aren't replaced all too often...
- kittenkidd 4y agoThe variant they're using is actually the U87 AI which is very different from an original U87
- jolux 4y agoInteresting, though it doesn’t look like that’s mentioned in the interview.
- boomboomsubban 4y agoIt's not because the subject matter has changed, its a courtesy for those of us that go "I remember reading something like this years ago, is this the same thing?"
- gjvc 4y agothe submitter owes you nothing
- boomboomsubban 4y agoNo, but dang often edits titles if you point it out. Like this one.
- ad-astra 4y agoAs an audio engineer this was incredibly hard to read. As a dog owner it was also hard to read. Yes yes the bass rolloff switch & having the mic to the side, that could have been 2 bullet points.
- grensley 4y agoThe real secret sauce (as it often is) is "how do you get people to follow the standard?" Superglue!
- lelandfe 4y agoDo you often lament that interviews aren't presented as bullet points?
- gonzo41 4y agoYes. This could be a killer youtube short/tiktok etc, or better a NPR short. But without all those words those banner adds would look lonely.
- autoexec 4y agoAnything that someone complains could have been summed up with just two bullet points shouldn't be a youtube or tiktok video. What visual element would have helped here? Do you really need to see the switch? Leave video for things where eyeballs are required. Instructional videos that could have been communicated clearly over text are obnoxious.
- gonzo41 4y agoA tiktok / short would be better, because yes you could show the effect, show the button, and then show the studios. Watch the Insider Business shorts, they are great example for exactly this style of stuff.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y agoGoodness! Another person out there on the wild wild web and not wearing their ublock origin suit. How do you even get through a day? I saw no ads, just continuous interview text with a short RHS sidebar at the top. If your browser/platform won't let you do this, well, you know what to do.
- alexjplant 4y agoI do the exact opposite. I use an EV ND96 for videoconferencing at work because I have a loud cat and live next to the train tracks and thus need something with a tight pattern. I tend to eat the mic so I've always had a bit of the "voice of God" thing going with the proximity effect bit after enough people said they were impressed with my "radio voice" I took it a step further. I now goose the lows a bit, gate enough to reduce breath noise, and apply a moderate amount of compression using my interface's DSP. People seem to love the way it sounds and it nicely complements my midrange-heavy voice. You gotta give the people what they want and a guy half-whispering into a condenser sideways just ain't it :-) (at least in my case).
- mulmen 4y agoThis is the remote work equivalent of taking a pill to make yourself a 6 foot tall white guy.
- jagged-chisel 4y agoExcept the pill doesn’t work. No one can observe that the intended digital effect isn’t true to life.
- mulmen 4y agoWouldn’t that be the pill working?
- _rs 4y agoCurious, which interface do you use and how do you apply the effects? I’ve done this with varying degrees of success but always ends up introducing too much latency
- alexjplant 4y agoI use a MOTU [1] which runs this stuff on its own DSP and is configurable from a desktop app. You could also use a hardware solution in the form of a channel strip but decent ones start approaching a mid-range interface like my MOTU in price so the value proposition is dicey at best IMHO. At one point I had the wild idea of building a Series 500 chassis with discrete signal processors instead but shelling out $1500 for such only for _videoconferencing_ (and occasional recording) would have been completely irresponsible. [1] https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Ultralite5--motu-ultralite-mk5-18x22-usb-audio-interface https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Ultralite5--motu-ult...
- sharkjacobs 4y ago> The reason NPR came to this standard — and this was decades ago — was because most of our listeners are consuming in an automobile or with something else in the background. Back in the day, and even to some degree now, you roll down those windows and hear those low rumbling frequencies. We wanted our voices to get above that so that they could be clear, open and understandable to improve our storytelling. This is something that I've never been able to put my finger on but have always appreciated
- mmis1000 4y agoActually, it's likely that most conference softwares done it by default if you have 'noise removing' on. If you record your sound without any processing using a condenser microphone next to a computer/fan in a office room. You usually get a lot of low frequency noise.(Way more than you expect, because your ears are already adapted to it but the microphone won't) Even cutting them alone can improve sound quality by a lot.
- shaunn 4y agoI took a studio design course and the teacher remarked that it was not uncommon in the 1970s to use a "private" transmitter to play audio they were actively mixing to create optimize the sound for playing in a car. I find it very interesting, how challenging it was working with the music industry and the fact how much of the environment is taken into account.
- Vrondi 4y agoAbsolutely. I turn the radio on many stations as soon as the DJ or reporter come on, because the booming bass in a speaking voice in the car is just auditory torture. If I do want to leave it on a local station during a news report, I often have to switch EQ presets on the car stereo to bear it, then switch back for music and everything else after. I have been long term grateful that NPR is cognizant enough to actively choose not to persecute their listeners in this way.
- RajT88 4y agoI'm getting older and either my hearing isn't what it used to be, or it's because I don't really play music anymore and my brain has gotten lazy. When I was in my 20's I sometimes couldn't stand that characteristic sound of NPR, because I could hear every tiny movement of saliva in the speaker's mouth. Sometimes, I just couldn't ignore it anymore, and lost track of what they were talking about entirely. No other radio station has that issue, haven't seen youtubers either.
- TylerE 4y agoIt’s a radio thing, to an extent. Analog FM starts to roll off pretty noticeably around 10k or so.
- ddren 4y agoWasn't expecting to see Adam Ragusea here. He has a popular youtube cooking channel nowadays.
- lelandfe 4y agoYeah, I'd read this before and never noticed. Apparently he had a good bit of time in radio and podcasting before moving on to YouTube. Link for the curious: https://www.youtube.com/@aragusea/videos https://www.youtube.com/@aragusea/videos
- steponlego 4y agoHe's everywhere, he's also a regular on 4chan, surprisingly enough.
- nemo44x 4y agoHa that’s funny. I respect him even more. Talented guy.
- sen_armstrong 4y agoThat's a nice anecdote, HNer. Why don't you back it up with a sauce?
- steponlego 4y agoEven has ads there.
- joshmn 4y agoCame here to say the same thing. He's always been pleasant to listen to. I actually just (within the last 15 minutes) watched him shamefully talk about cereal milk. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XBJfijkY2UA https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XBJfijkY2UA
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cainxinth 4y agoI listen to a lot NPR, and I’m ok with their signature sound, but sometimes I find it magnifies mouth sounds in a way that triggers a little misophonia in me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia
- hackernewds 4y agoSounds made up > It can adversely affect the ability to achieve life goals and enjoy social situations. It was first recognized in 2001 though it is still not in the DSM-5 or any similar manual.
- cainxinth 4y agoIt’s just a term for describing disliking hearing people smack their lips. I’m not claiming it’s a disease or disability.
- gaetgu 4y agoIt is different than just a simple “dislike”. I can’t really explain it, but hearing mouth noises (chewing, swallowing, lip smacking) invokes deep, almost instinctual anger within me. I can’t explain it, but it is certainly different.
- replwoacause 4y agoThis is a very real thing. I dated someone who went through the roof when she could hear any mouth sounds, even dogs licking their coats.
- caseyohara 4y ago"I haven't heard of this thing before so it sounds made up" Oof, as someone that suffers from moderate misophonia, I can assure you it is real and how lucky you are to have not heard of it. It can be torturous, and I don't even have it that bad. There's a subreddit with 62k members if you're curious https://www.reddit.com/r/misophonia https://www.reddit.com/r/misophonia
- thrdbndndn 4y agoA comparison of "bass rolloff" before/after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Lhw1MANEk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Lhw1MANEk (I wish I can find one with more significant difference).
- klodolph 4y agoThe U87 that NPR uses has very different bass rolloff from that video. The U87 rolloff is more gentle and starts at a much higher frequency than you'd expect... something like 500 Hz or so.
- musicale 4y agoI don't want NPR's sound. I want the sound of classic FM radio. It seems that many current FM stations don't have great sound quality, and I don't know why. Bad EQ and audio processing for the music they are playing? Lossy audio compression? Lower channel bandwidth and/or interference from digital signals or other sources? Weaker power? Distortion and clipping in the music itself? Worse noise pollution? Good FM radio seems to have enhanced stereo separation, clear highs and midrange, warmer but not overwhelming bass, and some compression on pop/rock stations to make the quieter bits audible in a car. Bad FM seems more harsh/strident, distorted, noisy, etc..
- TylerE 4y agoMost FM these days is digital and it does in fact sound like shit, because it’s a moderate bitrate mp3, with all the dynamic range smashed out of it for good reason.
- klodolph 4y agoClassic FM radio uses a lot of compression. This has always been true, it's just that the nature of that compression has changed. And I mean a lot of compression. From what I hear, people will just dial up the settings on the audio processing chain at a modern FM radio station.
- Vrondi 4y agoCompressed digital broadcasts would be my guess.
- dang 4y agoRelated: A top audio engineer explains NPR’s signature sound (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26832636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26832636 - April 2021 (187 comments) An audio engineer explains NPR’s signature sound - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11980977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11980977 - June 2016 (237 comments)
- koromak 4y agoNPR out here spending 4k per microphone
- phyzome 4y agoInvest in your tools. It's not like this is for team chat in an MMORPG. It's a radio station.
- euroderf 4y agoClarification: "signature sound" seems to refer to a trademark intro, like the Dolby film intro sound or the Intel chime. But no, it's a discussion of sound quality (microphones etc.) from NPR studios.
- AriedK 4y agoI’ve been consistently surprised by the audio quality on NPR’s Tiny Desk Concerts too. Here’s a video of their audio engineer explaining their setup: https://youtu.be/e07bI5rz6FY https://youtu.be/e07bI5rz6FY
- klodolph 4y agoI do recommend that people with some spare cash ($200?) try improving the quality of their audio stream in remote meetings. You'll be easier to understand. People will react more positively. You can spend days or weeks doing research, if you really want. My advice is to get a USB microphone if your budget is more like $100, and get a USB interface + XLR microphone if your budget is more like $200. For XLR mics, get something ordinary and boring like a Shure SM58 or an Audio-Technica AT2020. Keep your plosive Ps and Ks from blowing into the mic, keep the mic about 10cm / 5" away from your mouth, and bam, you've got wonderful, clear sound. Known traps: The SM7b has low sensitivity, and there's a good chance you'll need a FetHead or Cloudlifter (or outboard preamp) to get the levels you need. SM7b shouldn't be your first mic. Known misinformation: "This microphone is so sensitive, it picks up all sorts of background noise." This is almost always wrong! Any microphone which is more sensitive to background noise is also more sensitive to foreground noise. The net effect is close to zero.
- throw_away1525 4y agoWhen Covid started I had to start teaching courses I normally taught in person online. I invested in a Shure SM58 and a USB interface (Focusrite Scarlet Solo) and needed to add a Fethead for that setup to work as well. Absolutely great setup for around 200 bucks - if the way you make money depends at all on to getting people to listen to what you have to say (which should mean pretty much everyone reading this) then this is an absolutely no-brainer investment.
- modernerd 4y agoGood advice! I'd add this: 1. Pick a dynamic mic (USB: Rode Podcaster, XLR: SM7B or Rode Procaster, USB+XLR: Rode MV7) over a condenser mic (Yeti) if your space isn't treated or quiet. Dynamic mics generally reject room noise better than condenser mics and have a lower noise floor. Switching to a dynamic mic hugely reduced the physical sound treatment and audio adjustments I needed to get great sound. 2. Consider wired in-ear monitors for meetings. I like Shure's SE215 — they come in a clear colour that's pretty subtle. It completely removes audio feedback that some meeting apps are still not great at masking if you were using speakers before, and obviously prevents Bluetooth issues too.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- sammalloy 4y agoThey had a problem a few years ago that seems to be cleared up now, and I’m not sure what caused it. Basically, everyone was complaining about how you could hear excessive lip smacking, leading to acute misophonia in people who otherwise didn’t have it. If memory serves, it happened around 2015-2016. I remember tuning in around that time and thinking, why does it sound like this person is lapping water out of a pet bowl while they are talking? I searched online, and it turns out other people noticed it as well. I wonder if they changed equipment or experimented with different filters around that time. Personally, I don’t have misophonia, and never had a problem before that time, but when I heard the loud lip smacking on the radio in my car I couldn’t concentrate on what the person was talking about. This went on for some time with different guests and hosts, but I haven’t heard it again in a while now, so something must have changed.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- f5ve 4y agoThe most -- or, only -- fascinating thing about this article is that NPR doesn't compress their stream when sending it out to local stations. Everyone compresses. Especially in FM radio. And if you know people downstream of you will compress your content, then generally you do it first, so you have control over how it's done. Apparently the NPR way, at least in 2015, was to throw up their hands and give complete control over multiband compression to the local stations, which is kind of interesting.
- ubermonkey 4y agoThis is a great example of care and design happening in a way that improves the product, but which the average listener has no idea is happening.
- jollyllama 4y agoMy comment will be very untechnical, but NPR often has the perfect level of buzz or hum, just a tiny tiny bit of it in the background. It gives it a relaxed but alert feel.
- flanbiscuit 4y ago> We use a simple Neumann U87 microphone as the house-standard microphone at all of our facilities. They’re expensive, but that’s what we’ve used for years. I'm seeing one go for above US$ 3K on Amazon right now: https://www.amazon.com/Neumann-87-Switchable-Studio-Microphone/dp/B0016ZSIP2 https://www.amazon.com/Neumann-87-Switchable-Studio-Micropho... Right now I use the mic on the wire that came with my previous Bose QC35 headphones (I use them with my QC45 because I don't like the bluetooth mic). Let's say I want to step-up my microphone game but I also don't want to spend a ton (max around ~$250, flexible if strongly recommended one goes above it). Does anyone have any good mic recommendations? I just want to sound good and clear. I have medium-to-deep voice but can be nasally often because of allergies.
- anotherhue 4y agohttps://dontbuyayeti.com/ https://dontbuyayeti.com/
- flanbiscuit 4y agoha! thank you, this is perfect. Being new to Mics I've never even heard of a Yeti. I'll try out that Shure MV7 as it's in the budget range I set, although maybe the cheaper Samsung Q9U would be sufficient enough for my needs (I only need it for work video conferencing) Are pop filters recommended? Something like this: https://www.bswusa.com/Pop-Filters-BSW-RE27POP-P1419.aspx https://www.bswusa.com/Pop-Filters-BSW-RE27POP-P1419.aspx
- anotherhue 4y agoNo harm, though there are cheaper methods (like old tights). A control board can also be useful as you will be forever fiddling with the volume settings. When they're good they're very good, but the fussiness never ends. e.g. I hope you're happy keeping your head in the exact correct position for an entire 1hr zoom call.
- replwoacause 4y agoSamson Q2U. You can thank me later.
- jefurii 4y agoI've always loved how water sounds on NPR when they go out on location. Flowing, splashing, waves, whatever, it just sounds really really good.
- replwoacause 4y agoWhat kind of hardware do I have to plug my USB mic into if I want to EQ it realtime? Is there anything affordable that would make a lick of difference to the audio quality?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]