5 ms·

I wondered why electricity would help a wound heal in the first place. > The inflammation associated with these wounds can disrupt the body’s normal electric s

I wondered why electricity would help a wound heal in the first place. > The inflammation associated with these wounds can disrupt the body’s normal electric signals, impeding the migration of new cells that can support the healing process.

psychphysic 4y ago
Honestly, that is indistinguishable from the crystal mumbojumbo you get. And it feels like we're at the magic/science interface with electrotherapy. That said it is somewhat suspect, and the hypothesis is not really falsifiable by the experiment which is why the journal article itself is not claiming to test that. It is really disappointing that IEEE didn't actually link to or name the article directly. Very poor science journalism there. The article is that they observed this process working, not why it works. Maybe it works because it kills bacteria...?
- iandanforth 4y ago
  Nope ion concentration gradients (which also manifest as electrical potentials) serve to guide everything from white blood cells to the precursors of both replacement and scar tissue. You can mimic this signal directly by applying a potential difference. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1084952108001535 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10849...
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    I saw a lecture on bio electricity and it blew my mind. I love areas of science that seem like crystal woo that turn out to be legit. Scientific groupthink creates many opportunities…
    - permo-w 4y ago
      it’s disappointing to me that there’s never been a real double-blind study into healing crystals. yeah they’re very clearly placebic woo woo, but the fact that no one’s even thoroughly looked at it is a little sad. RIP James Randi
      - canadianfella 4y ago
        [dead]
      - touisteur 4y ago
        I'm more surprised that auriculotherapy was recognised by the WHO and I still struggle to find rich medical literature on the subject (maybe looking in the wrong places) although I must admit it helped me a lot, placebo or not (sure didn't feel like one... The reactions and changes were, in my case, drastic to say the least - I haven't had a painful migraine in 10 years - though I still get the other symptoms but no pain, thank doc or my gullible brain).
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - sedivy94 4y ago
      I do not see the argument as specious. You might be lacking sufficient exposure to the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bQWfmeB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bQWfmeB8
      - psychphysic 4y ago
        It's specious because it doesn't speak to whether or not it does anything else. It's well established that the COVID vaccine causes a sore arm. Does that mean sore arms protect from COVID infection? This is the level of reasoning you both are applying here. And no matter how clearly you show that the vaccine causes a sore arm, you can't convince me it's the sore arm that prevents COVID infection.
        1123581321 4y ago
        Sore arms do protect from COVID. They keep you indoors. (I understand your main point.)
  - ehsankia 4y ago
    Regardless of the low level effect, if there was a measurable difference, wouldn't it be fairly trivial to have a trial where people measure healing time of this vs a normal bandage, to see if the difference is statistically significant?
    - theptip 4y ago
      The first (small) paragraph reads: > The first electronic bandage the body can absorb can apply electric signals to speed the healing of wounds by 30 percent, a new study finds.
      - agos 4y ago
        the study[1], since TFA does not link to it [1]: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ade4687 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ade4687
- lumb63 4y ago
  You should look into the book The Body Electric. The ability of electricity to heal (the doctor in the book even reports some instances of finger regrowth in humans) is remarkable.
  - spacecity1971 4y ago
    Good to see Robert O. Becker finally getting some recognition for a lifetime of work.
sva_ 4y ago
Reminds me a bit of Michael Levin's work, where they use electrical signals to cause organisms to regrow limbs.
- darkerside 4y ago
  This sounds amazing. What animal?
slackdog 4y ago
I suppose it's probably an unrelated effect, but electron beams are often used for sterilizing things like food, medical packaging, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-beam_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-beam_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#Electron_beam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#Electron_beam
LegitShady 4y ago
your cells are sensitive to charge in general - cells attempt to maintain certain voltage differentials across their membranes via ion channels in the cell membrane, can communicate voltage information with each other via gap junctions, etc. That electrical communication does control how cells behave. If you have 20 minutes to watch this ted talk interview I highly recommend it. My mind was blown. Your DNA determines the hardware, but there's a lot of non chemical communication that goes on between cells that determine how they behave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c Once you realize that cells can effectively communicate with each other via voltage, things like whats described about electrical bandages become less surprising. If you've got a little more time (2 hours) there's a much longer more detailed interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TNfysTazc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TNfysTazc This is some next level stuff. Imagine DNA describes what your hardware looks like, but the software your cells run may be bioelectrical in large enough ways to consider that maybe your skin has some level cognition.
- farkanoid 4y ago
  That TED talk was great! Hoping to watch the other video tonight, thanks for sharing
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    I go back and watch that 2 hour talk every couple months.
usefulcat 4y ago
The “migration of new cells”? I thought new cells would grow in place; do they really migrate from elsewhere?
- manmal 4y ago
  They come from blood stream, bone marrow, surrounding tissues etc

psychphysic 4y ago

Honestly, that is indistinguishable from the crystal mumbojumbo you get. And it feels like we're at the magic/science interface with electrotherapy. That said it is somewhat suspect, and the hypothesis is not really falsifiable by the experiment which is why the journal article itself is not claiming to test that. It is really disappointing that IEEE didn't actually link to or name the article directly. Very poor science journalism there. The article is that they observed this process working, not why it works. Maybe it works because it kills bacteria...?

iandanforth 4y ago
Nope ion concentration gradients (which also manifest as electrical potentials) serve to guide everything from white blood cells to the precursors of both replacement and scar tissue. You can mimic this signal directly by applying a potential difference. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1084952108001535 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10849...
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  I saw a lecture on bio electricity and it blew my mind. I love areas of science that seem like crystal woo that turn out to be legit. Scientific groupthink creates many opportunities…
  - permo-w 4y ago
    it’s disappointing to me that there’s never been a real double-blind study into healing crystals. yeah they’re very clearly placebic woo woo, but the fact that no one’s even thoroughly looked at it is a little sad. RIP James Randi
    - canadianfella 4y ago
      [dead]
    - touisteur 4y ago
      I'm more surprised that auriculotherapy was recognised by the WHO and I still struggle to find rich medical literature on the subject (maybe looking in the wrong places) although I must admit it helped me a lot, placebo or not (sure didn't feel like one... The reactions and changes were, in my case, drastic to say the least - I haven't had a painful migraine in 10 years - though I still get the other symptoms but no pain, thank doc or my gullible brain).
- psychphysic 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - sedivy94 4y ago
    I do not see the argument as specious. You might be lacking sufficient exposure to the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bQWfmeB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bQWfmeB8
    - psychphysic 4y ago
      It's specious because it doesn't speak to whether or not it does anything else. It's well established that the COVID vaccine causes a sore arm. Does that mean sore arms protect from COVID infection? This is the level of reasoning you both are applying here. And no matter how clearly you show that the vaccine causes a sore arm, you can't convince me it's the sore arm that prevents COVID infection.
      - 1123581321 4y ago
        Sore arms do protect from COVID. They keep you indoors. (I understand your main point.)
- ehsankia 4y ago
  Regardless of the low level effect, if there was a measurable difference, wouldn't it be fairly trivial to have a trial where people measure healing time of this vs a normal bandage, to see if the difference is statistically significant?
  - theptip 4y ago
    The first (small) paragraph reads: > The first electronic bandage the body can absorb can apply electric signals to speed the healing of wounds by 30 percent, a new study finds.
    - agos 4y ago
      the study[1], since TFA does not link to it [1]: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ade4687 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ade4687
lumb63 4y ago
You should look into the book The Body Electric. The ability of electricity to heal (the doctor in the book even reports some instances of finger regrowth in humans) is remarkable.
- spacecity1971 4y ago
  Good to see Robert O. Becker finally getting some recognition for a lifetime of work.

sva_ 4y ago

Reminds me a bit of Michael Levin's work, where they use electrical signals to cause organisms to regrow limbs.

darkerside 4y ago
This sounds amazing. What animal?

slackdog 4y ago

I suppose it's probably an unrelated effect, but electron beams are often used for sterilizing things like food, medical packaging, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-beam_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-beam_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#Electron_beam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#Electron_beam

LegitShady 4y ago

your cells are sensitive to charge in general - cells attempt to maintain certain voltage differentials across their membranes via ion channels in the cell membrane, can communicate voltage information with each other via gap junctions, etc. That electrical communication does control how cells behave. If you have 20 minutes to watch this ted talk interview I highly recommend it. My mind was blown. Your DNA determines the hardware, but there's a lot of non chemical communication that goes on between cells that determine how they behave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c Once you realize that cells can effectively communicate with each other via voltage, things like whats described about electrical bandages become less surprising. If you've got a little more time (2 hours) there's a much longer more detailed interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TNfysTazc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TNfysTazc This is some next level stuff. Imagine DNA describes what your hardware looks like, but the software your cells run may be bioelectrical in large enough ways to consider that maybe your skin has some level cognition.

farkanoid 4y ago
That TED talk was great! Hoping to watch the other video tonight, thanks for sharing
- LegitShady 4y ago
  I go back and watch that 2 hour talk every couple months.

usefulcat 4y ago

The “migration of new cells”? I thought new cells would grow in place; do they really migrate from elsewhere?

manmal 4y ago
They come from blood stream, bone marrow, surrounding tissues etc