15 ms·

From the headline, I assumed that this was men kidnapping women. But it is actually men being baited by profiles of women an kidnapped or robbed. This is also q

by yosito 4y ago

From the headline, I assumed that this was men kidnapping women. But it is actually men being baited by profiles of women an kidnapped or robbed. This is also quite common in Colombia. I heard a story of a Dutch guy who met a very eager woman from Tinder. She drugged his drink, and he ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well. Somehow managed to escape alive.

goldfeld 4y ago
Yes, it seems the title is using "dates" only to attract eyeballs, even "matches" would be better here.
jfengel 4y ago
And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place, never taking a drink from anybody except a bartender. For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time.
- LanceH 4y ago
  Comment about the victims being male. Response about how men can change their behavior for women.
  - sn0wf1re 4y ago
    The response is how to take basic steps to protect one's self. Steps that are already common among women. Basic safety steps are not victim blaming, for example, wearing bright clothing at night to reduce the chance of being injured by motor vehicle. It seems you are implying that the comment is victim blaming, or if I take your statement less charitably it is flame bait implying that the comment above would cause outrage if the genders were swapped.
    - LanceH 4y ago
      > Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time. All the points were valid, but when people talk about the invisibility of male victims...this is it.
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        This advice is literally exactly what every woman is told. It has nothing to do with male victims.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        The article is about overwhelmingly male victims. It's not always about you!
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        Saagar is a male forename, but yes, reducing kidnapping to "losing your wallet" in an attempt at whataboutery is a bit tasteless.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        You're right. I assumed the commenter was male. I'm just recalling how many times women in my life said that to me in response to me daring to bring up any male-centered concerns. Things like Me Too witch hunts of men later proven to be innocent.
        mattzito 4y ago
        I have been able to have constructive conversations about things like false rape accusations with women by engaging constructively and having specific, salient points about them. When I have seen them go very badly, it is almost always because the man comes at the conversation as there is somehow some equivalence or at least relative importance. And there absolutely is not anything close to equivalence. Sexual violence is so prevalent among women that I know several women who have been assaulted multiple times. I once was having a deep conversation with two female friends and one of them started to tell a story that was obviously hard to tell, and when she paused, the other friend said without emotion, “so, what’s this going to be, rape or no rape?” (It was rape) So yes, sure “me too witch hunts” are a real bummer, but telling that to a woman who has a not-insignificant percent chance of having been assaulted for real seems tone deaf, to put it mildly.
  - elil17 4y ago
    Obviously no one should have to be so careful. We should aspire to have a society where all people are safe from crime. But this is the reality of the world right now, and it is helpful to suggest that men take a page from women's playbooks when it comes to personal safety.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    You're absolutely right. Just as we should be teaching boys not to assault women, we should be teaching girls not to drug and rob men. That doesn't seem to be as big a problem yet, but we should nip it in the bud before it spreads beyond São Paulo. Every parent should teach their daughters that robbing men is wrong. Just as every parent should be teaching their sons that raping women is wrong. There is no excuse. Whether he's wearing a Rolex, or she's wearing a miniskirt, that's their choice to make. It is not an invitation, and you are not entitled to anything. Rape is a crime, and robbery is a crime. We should prosecute both, and make sure our children get the message that it is unacceptable. I appreciate your reminder that the criminal, not the victim, is to blame. It's unfortunate that people do have to protect themselves, but I hadn't intended my advice to suggest that that's the only change we should make. We already have laws and must enforce them.
    - pelasaco 4y ago
      don't forget the every woman is a robber in potential /s
    - callmetom 4y ago
      [dead]
    - gowld 4y ago
      Oh, we forgot to tell criminals to not be criminal. What a silly overight.
      - jfengel 4y ago
        Unfortunately, this is a real problem for women. A lot of boys get the impression that women are "teasing" them and "deserve" to be assaulted. Every woman who files rape charges knows that she's going to have her sexual history questioned, and be asked what she was wearing, as if that made a difference to the legality. You wouldn't think that "No means no" is a lesson we'd have to teach, but not only do we have to, but a lot of people will push back on it. So I'm being a bit facetious in my reply, but I'm using the opportunity of the OP's self-pity to reiterate: this is a thing that women go through all the time.
  - majormajor 4y ago
    This advice is given all the damn time. You've never seen an article about how to be safe on blind dates or such? A quick google search turns up several. Is it that women's problems are invisible to you until men start having some of them?
  - asveikau 4y ago
    Does that bother you, sir? I can tell you that I'm not bothered by this at all.
- hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
  The reason this happens with men is what the article doesn't mention: most/all the victims are married men cheating on their partners. So, they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going.
  - elzbardico 4y ago
    Just out of curiousity, where did you get this data from? could you share the link?
    - frozenlettuce 4y ago
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazilians-visit-love-motels https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazi... These love motels are usually in surrounding areas (as building codes restrict them being placed in central areas to avoid prostitution)
      - flebron 4y ago
        I don't see a link between that Bloomberg article and these kidnappings happening mostly to married men cheating. Nor is it the case that "love motels" are primarily used for cheating. We have plenty of those in Argentina. As the Bloomberg article indicates, they serve a social need because of the traditional multigenerational family homes people live in.
        iksub1 4y ago
        And hardly will find in other article due the fact that cheaters will lie to protect their identify if they ever come across a survey or interview. The "love motel" being used for cheating is a known thing across brazilians and still is not easy to find in writing. Also, BR motels are different from the Argentian ones (at least the ones that I saw in Buenos Aires).
        frozenlettuce 4y ago
        the list was to give some sort of reference to the statement "they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going" posted above
- coldtea 4y ago
  >And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place Doesn't help when nobody knows or will find the attackers...
- kerpotgh 4y ago
  [dead]
- MandieD 4y ago
  "For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time." This is solid. Guys, do not take it personally when a woman who doesn't know you extremely well is taking these kinds of safety measures. It's because either we've personally had a bad experience with someone who seemed like a decent guy, or have been told about a bad experience someone else had. We're not refusing the drink you thoughtfully brought us from the bar because we're picky; we're doing it because we have an acquaintance who woke up in someone else's bed, unplanned. Knowing what safety measures women normally take will help you avoid feeling slighted. It's not you, it's the bad behavior of enough of your fellow fellows, bad behavior you're unlikely to directly witness. If we didn't think you were a decent guy, we probably wouldn't be going out with you in the first place (or were too scared to say no).
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Not sure why this is being downvoted. Used to be a bartender and there were several times I watched a woman get a drink and take a fake sip, and then wait until the gentlemen is away and ask for a different one. Like she was bought a rum and coke and then moseyed up to the bar and asked for a replacement one -- "I'm not sure I trust his drink" -- fair enough. We also had a sign in the ladies room: "ask a bartender / waiter / bouncer if their friend Trudy is doing okay, that means you or someone with you is being creeped on and are concerned for safety". Only had that chat 2-3 times, but it did happen.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  Nah, we just gotta man up.
dustingetz 4y ago
"thirst trap"
InCityDreams 4y ago
>I heard a story of a... Sauce?
- whymauri 4y ago
  Not the same story, but it's covered frequently in Colombian national and local news. Here is an example: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime-orange-county-man-killed-in-colombia-family-raising-money-to-bring-him-home/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime... The highest risk cities are Medellin (high expat population) and Cartagena (high tourist population). No matter how much I tell my friends not to use Tinder in Latin America, they still try and end up in close calls. One friend ended up in a 'Millionaire's Ride' extortioned to buy overpriced cocaine.
  - explaininjs 4y ago
    Going to Colombia in a week. Not planning on dating around, but do you have any other tips for staying safe as a solo traveller? Not trying to end up at the bottom of a well.
    - Mystery-Machine 4y ago
      On the contrary to Brazil and Mexico (for example) the good news in Colombia is that people fight back. They don't like crime and so, if they see someone being robbed, they assault the robber. So just stay in the populated areas and you'll be fine. In Mexico and Brazil people turn their heads around and you're on your own...
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        I have a video of a brazilian bystander deciding to mess up a crime in progress by kicking an armed teenager in the leg and knocking him down. Teenager got up and executed him in cold blood for the insult, then resumed whatever he was doing.
    - whymauri 4y ago
TechBro8615 4y ago
Remember, lads: if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
peteradio 4y ago
> ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well At least he wasn't thirsty
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  That's how he ended up there in the first place
medellin 4y ago
I would wager it’s popular any place where you have a large number of tourists who think its easy to pick up local girls because they have more money than the locals.
whoiscroberts 4y ago
Ah, the old Cardi B con

by yosito 4y ago

goldfeld 4y ago

Yes, it seems the title is using "dates" only to attract eyeballs, even "matches" would be better here.

jfengel 4y ago

And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place, never taking a drink from anybody except a bartender. For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time.

LanceH 4y ago
Comment about the victims being male. Response about how men can change their behavior for women.
- sn0wf1re 4y ago
  The response is how to take basic steps to protect one's self. Steps that are already common among women. Basic safety steps are not victim blaming, for example, wearing bright clothing at night to reduce the chance of being injured by motor vehicle. It seems you are implying that the comment is victim blaming, or if I take your statement less charitably it is flame bait implying that the comment above would cause outrage if the genders were swapped.
  - LanceH 4y ago
    > Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time. All the points were valid, but when people talk about the invisibility of male victims...this is it.
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      This advice is literally exactly what every woman is told. It has nothing to do with male victims.
      - chitowneats 4y ago
        The article is about overwhelmingly male victims. It's not always about you!
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        Saagar is a male forename, but yes, reducing kidnapping to "losing your wallet" in an attempt at whataboutery is a bit tasteless.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        You're right. I assumed the commenter was male. I'm just recalling how many times women in my life said that to me in response to me daring to bring up any male-centered concerns. Things like Me Too witch hunts of men later proven to be innocent.
        mattzito 4y ago
        I have been able to have constructive conversations about things like false rape accusations with women by engaging constructively and having specific, salient points about them. When I have seen them go very badly, it is almost always because the man comes at the conversation as there is somehow some equivalence or at least relative importance. And there absolutely is not anything close to equivalence. Sexual violence is so prevalent among women that I know several women who have been assaulted multiple times. I once was having a deep conversation with two female friends and one of them started to tell a story that was obviously hard to tell, and when she paused, the other friend said without emotion, “so, what’s this going to be, rape or no rape?” (It was rape) So yes, sure “me too witch hunts” are a real bummer, but telling that to a woman who has a not-insignificant percent chance of having been assaulted for real seems tone deaf, to put it mildly.
- elil17 4y ago
  Obviously no one should have to be so careful. We should aspire to have a society where all people are safe from crime. But this is the reality of the world right now, and it is helpful to suggest that men take a page from women's playbooks when it comes to personal safety.
- jfengel 4y ago
  You're absolutely right. Just as we should be teaching boys not to assault women, we should be teaching girls not to drug and rob men. That doesn't seem to be as big a problem yet, but we should nip it in the bud before it spreads beyond São Paulo. Every parent should teach their daughters that robbing men is wrong. Just as every parent should be teaching their sons that raping women is wrong. There is no excuse. Whether he's wearing a Rolex, or she's wearing a miniskirt, that's their choice to make. It is not an invitation, and you are not entitled to anything. Rape is a crime, and robbery is a crime. We should prosecute both, and make sure our children get the message that it is unacceptable. I appreciate your reminder that the criminal, not the victim, is to blame. It's unfortunate that people do have to protect themselves, but I hadn't intended my advice to suggest that that's the only change we should make. We already have laws and must enforce them.
  - pelasaco 4y ago
    don't forget the every woman is a robber in potential /s
  - callmetom 4y ago
    [dead]
  - gowld 4y ago
    Oh, we forgot to tell criminals to not be criminal. What a silly overight.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      Unfortunately, this is a real problem for women. A lot of boys get the impression that women are "teasing" them and "deserve" to be assaulted. Every woman who files rape charges knows that she's going to have her sexual history questioned, and be asked what she was wearing, as if that made a difference to the legality. You wouldn't think that "No means no" is a lesson we'd have to teach, but not only do we have to, but a lot of people will push back on it. So I'm being a bit facetious in my reply, but I'm using the opportunity of the OP's self-pity to reiterate: this is a thing that women go through all the time.
- majormajor 4y ago
  This advice is given all the damn time. You've never seen an article about how to be safe on blind dates or such? A quick google search turns up several. Is it that women's problems are invisible to you until men start having some of them?
- asveikau 4y ago
  Does that bother you, sir? I can tell you that I'm not bothered by this at all.
hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
The reason this happens with men is what the article doesn't mention: most/all the victims are married men cheating on their partners. So, they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going.
- elzbardico 4y ago
  Just out of curiousity, where did you get this data from? could you share the link?
  - frozenlettuce 4y ago
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazilians-visit-love-motels https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazi... These love motels are usually in surrounding areas (as building codes restrict them being placed in central areas to avoid prostitution)
    - flebron 4y ago
      I don't see a link between that Bloomberg article and these kidnappings happening mostly to married men cheating. Nor is it the case that "love motels" are primarily used for cheating. We have plenty of those in Argentina. As the Bloomberg article indicates, they serve a social need because of the traditional multigenerational family homes people live in.
      - iksub1 4y ago
        And hardly will find in other article due the fact that cheaters will lie to protect their identify if they ever come across a survey or interview. The "love motel" being used for cheating is a known thing across brazilians and still is not easy to find in writing. Also, BR motels are different from the Argentian ones (at least the ones that I saw in Buenos Aires).
      - frozenlettuce 4y ago
        the list was to give some sort of reference to the statement "they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going" posted above
coldtea 4y ago
>And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place Doesn't help when nobody knows or will find the attackers...
kerpotgh 4y ago
[dead]
MandieD 4y ago
"For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time." This is solid. Guys, do not take it personally when a woman who doesn't know you extremely well is taking these kinds of safety measures. It's because either we've personally had a bad experience with someone who seemed like a decent guy, or have been told about a bad experience someone else had. We're not refusing the drink you thoughtfully brought us from the bar because we're picky; we're doing it because we have an acquaintance who woke up in someone else's bed, unplanned. Knowing what safety measures women normally take will help you avoid feeling slighted. It's not you, it's the bad behavior of enough of your fellow fellows, bad behavior you're unlikely to directly witness. If we didn't think you were a decent guy, we probably wouldn't be going out with you in the first place (or were too scared to say no).
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted. Used to be a bartender and there were several times I watched a woman get a drink and take a fake sip, and then wait until the gentlemen is away and ask for a different one. Like she was bought a rum and coke and then moseyed up to the bar and asked for a replacement one -- "I'm not sure I trust his drink" -- fair enough. We also had a sign in the ladies room: "ask a bartender / waiter / bouncer if their friend Trudy is doing okay, that means you or someone with you is being creeped on and are concerned for safety". Only had that chat 2-3 times, but it did happen.
fennecfoxy 4y ago
Nah, we just gotta man up.

dustingetz 4y ago

"thirst trap"

InCityDreams 4y ago

>I heard a story of a... Sauce?

whymauri 4y ago
Not the same story, but it's covered frequently in Colombian national and local news. Here is an example: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime-orange-county-man-killed-in-colombia-family-raising-money-to-bring-him-home/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime... The highest risk cities are Medellin (high expat population) and Cartagena (high tourist population). No matter how much I tell my friends not to use Tinder in Latin America, they still try and end up in close calls. One friend ended up in a 'Millionaire's Ride' extortioned to buy overpriced cocaine.
- explaininjs 4y ago
  Going to Colombia in a week. Not planning on dating around, but do you have any other tips for staying safe as a solo traveller? Not trying to end up at the bottom of a well.
  - Mystery-Machine 4y ago
    On the contrary to Brazil and Mexico (for example) the good news in Colombia is that people fight back. They don't like crime and so, if they see someone being robbed, they assault the robber. So just stay in the populated areas and you'll be fine. In Mexico and Brazil people turn their heads around and you're on your own...
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      I have a video of a brazilian bystander deciding to mess up a crime in progress by kicking an armed teenager in the leg and knocking him down. Teenager got up and executed him in cold blood for the insult, then resumed whatever he was doing.
  - whymauri 4y ago

TechBro8615 4y ago

Remember, lads: if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

peteradio 4y ago

> ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well At least he wasn't thirsty

wonderwonder 4y ago
That's how he ended up there in the first place

medellin 4y ago

I would wager it’s popular any place where you have a large number of tourists who think its easy to pick up local girls because they have more money than the locals.

whoiscroberts 4y ago

Ah, the old Cardi B con