8 ms·

The next generation of gaming platforms is really going to be heated. We basically have two philosophies in the field now. The Switch and the Steam Deck sacrifi

by a13o 4y ago

The next generation of gaming platforms is really going to be heated. We basically have two philosophies in the field now. The Switch and the Steam Deck sacrifice high end hardware for portability and versatility. The PS5 and XSX are about as portable as a LAN party, but can theoretically push 4k@120hz for the cost of a graphics card. Is there room for everyone next gen? Each of Valve, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo have the expertise to field a machine serving one or both philosophies. But I don't think the customer base is there to support so many consoles. Which configurations will we see? Is the next Switch as popular when the indie games can release on the much more open Steam Deck instead? Will Microsoft choose to compete with Sony, or with Valve? They've always been after Sony's market, but Steam Deck puts them on defense.

ccouzens 4y ago
The Steam ecosystem has devices in both categories. It's the only ecosystem in the list where you can buy a game and have your progress synced between a performance device and a portable device.
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Sony used to have hardware and software for this, as you could cross-buy a title for a PlayStation 4 and a PlayStation Vita, and then sync the save data through the cloud. Unfortunately Sony abandoned the handheld gaming market just before the Switch and Steam Deck blew it up.
  - NineStarPoint 4y ago
    Handheld gaming has always been extremely lucrative (unlike their TV consoles which have a spotty record, the worst selling mobile console Nintendo sold was the 3DS at 70+ million.) Sony just couldn’t capture that market, so gave up.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - snuxoll 4y ago
    RIP PS Vita, the device was far ahead of its time; but Sony didn't abandon it "just before" the Switch and Deck blew up the handheld market again, they had shot it and left it to bleed somewhere between year 1 and year 2 on the market. Frankly it's amazing it has the library that it does considering Sony basically stopped supporting it or marketing it in any way long before they stopped producing the system.
  - taeric 4y ago
    Yeah, how Sony has managed to never build any synergy between all of their offerings is mind numbing. The success of making the PS2 backwards compatible with the PS1 was a huge thing that looked so promising. And then they just never bothered leaning in on that as a full strategy. Imagine if they had made it so you could play PSP games on any of the home consoles? Could have been amazing.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > It's the only ecosystem in the list where you can buy a game and have your progress synced between a performance device and a portable device. Just a reminder that console streaming exists, which can work really well. https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/remote-play https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/remote-play
yCombLinks 4y ago
Nintendo has always been about first party games.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  That's right. Nobody cares about how powerful the hardware is, as long as they know it's where they will play the next Mario and Zelda games.
  - WithinReason 4y ago
    Ironically, the Steam Deck emulates Switch games better than the Switch runs them.
baby 4y ago
The same seems to be true with the Quest and the Valve Index, the Quest seem to optimize on portability and convenience
Kukumber 4y ago
Both Nintendo/Sony sold ~3x more than Microsoft last month Steam Deck numbers are nothing compared to what these 3 are selling, if i remember correctly, it was 1 million reservations total for a whole year, that sounds like a flop to my book when you compare with the 3 existing players I think next gen we'll see Sony getting back into the handheld market, Nintendo coming up with a second version, and Microsoft coming up with a cloud stick Microsoft doubling down on cloud gaming might kill their Xbox brand, it's too early for that, they'll miss the handheld market just like they missed the smartphone era https://www.vgchartz.com/ https://www.vgchartz.com/
- cubefox 4y ago
  Sony building a Switch competitor for the next generation, in addition to a PlayStation 6? That sounds very unlikely to me. With the Switch form factor, it would have to be a lot closer to the PlayStation 6 than the small PSP was to the PlayStation 3. I don't think Sony wants to have two similar consoles on the market; they would compete with themselves. And the memories of the PSVita misfortune will deter them further. No, I think they just do an ordinary PS6 and nothing else. They could, theoretically, make the PS6 itself a hybrid like the Switch, but that would be a really bad strategy, since they'd give up their stationary dominance to Microsoft just to compete with a market where Nintendo is dominant.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    Sony will have to prepare for the cloud gaming revolution once network infrastructure will match the grid network infrastructure A handheld will be the catalyzer for cloud gaming market, just like what smartphones did to landline telephones I can see a PS6 with a handheld as companion, it perfectly make sense, if they don't then that'd be a missed opportunity It definitely is better than Xbox X/S, Microsoft missed a huge opportunity there, they have to manufacture 2 different SKU (sony will soon have just one with their modular design) I can't be the only one to sense this signal? If they don't do a handheld then that could only mean they got pressured to not do it, by whom? shareholders? insiders? 3rd-party? The PSVita story is unfortunate, but lot of solid reasons why it didn't do as good as they'd have hoped, it sold ~ same as the WiiU and yet Nintendo doubled down and were successful with the Switch, it could have been PSVita2 or PSP2 and Sony would have found similar success, even thought Switch took some time before going mainstream, that's another evidence that the market is demanding it, you can see it with the boom of the handheld retro consoles that all are running android/linux Successful games like CoD Mobile and Genshin Impact, as well as the countless of games getting ported to the Switch and Smartphones is a better evidence than my comment, smartphone users are demanding premium games, and that played a big role in the Switch success
fnands 4y ago
Super exciting to see where this all goes. As consumers, having the big boys competing for our attention is great place to be.
Dalewyn 4y ago
>but can theoretically push 4k@120hz for the cost of a graphics card. While a desktop computer can't get anywhere near that price range for similar performance (because, other than Intel ARC, video card prices are still ridiculous across the board...), the cost of a decently performant desktop computer actually isn't as high as most would think if you just use low- to mid-tier hardware instead of going for the high-end stuff. Anyway, as far as the question of market share space: It's still the same players, with the small addition of Valve potentially carving a niche for itself. Sony hasn't delved into mobile since the PS Vita, and Microsoft has flat out never bothered with mobile gaming. As for Nintendo, they'll do Nintendo things as they always do.
NineStarPoint 4y ago
It’s important to recognize that while the Steam deck is awesome, it’s sold 1 million compared to the 100 million of the Switch. Nintendo has massive name recognition and exclusives of course, but also price. The cheapest Steam Deck is 400 dollars, whereas the Switch is 300. For people who don’t already have big steam libraries and don’t care about open hardware, the Switch is where they’re going to go for a mobile console. Then Sony and Xbox compete on exclusives but ultimately I think there’s room for everyone in the space regardless. Gaming is probably the most lucrative entertainment sector at this point, and mobile gaming hasn’t eaten console gaming yet. A generation or two more from the next one…harder to say.
- hbn 4y ago
  > The cheapest Steam Deck is 400 dollars, whereas the Switch is 300. The Switch's entry price is actually $200 for the Switch Lite. I think it's even had small discounts on occasion too.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    The Lite is the portable-only version that's mainly for solo play. Doesn't come with a cradle, can't slot into a cradle and TV output is disabled, so no TV out, integrated controls (no detachable joycons, so you can't do that thing where you take your switch somewhere then pop the joycons off and play 2-player games) Not countering what you wrote, just clarifying what that device is. (personally, if they didn't deliberately cripple its ability to do TV out at all, I'd buy a lite instead of the regular Switch—I hate using joycons so we have like three pro controllers anyway, and the joycon dock points have proven a highly-breakable weak spot on my Switches so far, under actual use by kids)
- Steltek 4y ago
  Hasn't console gaming always outperformed PC gaming marketshare? I'm not sure people even really compare costs for videogames. If they did, they'd notice that everytime you buy a new Nintendo system, you have to re-purchase all of your old games if you want to run them on the new platform. You don't have the same problem with PC games. I'm finding that even 10+ year old PC games are still enjoyable today. Maybe more so than originally because my own hardware has advanced and I can pump up the graphics quite a bit. My back catalog of games in Steam isn't something you get from traditional console makers.
ushtaritk421 4y ago
Steam deck is an extension of the already existing PC gaming market. I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. Steam Deck just makes it so those PC gamers will care if a game runs well on Linux. The point isn’t to take over the console market but to defend the PC gaming market from console exclusivity and Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store
- gpanders 4y ago
  >I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. I don’t know if I’m in the minority or not, but I have never owned a gaming PC, and have not had a console since I was a teenager with an Xbox 360. I’m now 30, and I bought the Steam Deck precisely because of its portability.
- pibechorro 4y ago
  I dont pc game. I dont have space for a giant tower, etc. My main computer is a laptop (x1 carbon). The steamdeck allows me to enjoy all the awesome pc games, stores in a drawer, its portable if i want it to, and i dont need 4k 1000fps, 1080p and 30 to 60fps is plenty to single play with q screen on my couch. I am not a professional gamer, i dont need a full desk worth of gear. I am also busy, its nice not to worry about hardware, just plug and play (i did upgrade the ssd myself though). Its a great device.
- rockostrich 4y ago
  I'm considering getting rid of my PC in favor of just gaming on my Steam Deck no matter where I am. If they somehow figure out how to create a dock with an external GPU then I'd 100% buy it and sell my PC since I need to play some games on low to medium setting when I want to play at 1080 to 1440.
- ascagnel_ 4y ago
  > Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store That was initially the case for SteamOS/Steam Machines, but the MS Store has been a _resounding_ failure in the gaming market. It's use is largely limited to PC Game Pass subscribers, who use it as the download backend for the Xbox app (which is the primary interface for installing/managing games). If anything, it's a way for Valve to hedge against streaming platforms.
nonethewiser 4y ago
I think there is enough room for each. The switch basically exists because there is no reason not to have a portable form factor if your console is going to be so underpowered (compared to Xbox, PlayStation).
aloer 4y ago
There is a third category worth considering and that’s cloud gaming with a thin client. Since January GeForce now supports 4k@120 and the hardware required to render that is probably going to be much less than the next gen kind of switch will have. I would not be surprised to see tv sticks + controller given away for basically free. Like stadia but properly this time. It won’t be for everyone and I have no idea how quick they can scale this but it’s nonetheless an interesting development. Currently there’s a bit of a hybrid thing going on with ideas that combine cloud gaming with Xbox or PlayStation but here the consumer still has to pay for more hardware than necessary for streaming only

by a13o 4y ago

ccouzens 4y ago

The Steam ecosystem has devices in both categories. It's the only ecosystem in the list where you can buy a game and have your progress synced between a performance device and a portable device.

Hamuko 4y ago
Sony used to have hardware and software for this, as you could cross-buy a title for a PlayStation 4 and a PlayStation Vita, and then sync the save data through the cloud. Unfortunately Sony abandoned the handheld gaming market just before the Switch and Steam Deck blew it up.
- NineStarPoint 4y ago
  Handheld gaming has always been extremely lucrative (unlike their TV consoles which have a spotty record, the worst selling mobile console Nintendo sold was the 3DS at 70+ million.) Sony just couldn’t capture that market, so gave up.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- snuxoll 4y ago
  RIP PS Vita, the device was far ahead of its time; but Sony didn't abandon it "just before" the Switch and Deck blew up the handheld market again, they had shot it and left it to bleed somewhere between year 1 and year 2 on the market. Frankly it's amazing it has the library that it does considering Sony basically stopped supporting it or marketing it in any way long before they stopped producing the system.
- taeric 4y ago
  Yeah, how Sony has managed to never build any synergy between all of their offerings is mind numbing. The success of making the PS2 backwards compatible with the PS1 was a huge thing that looked so promising. And then they just never bothered leaning in on that as a full strategy. Imagine if they had made it so you could play PSP games on any of the home consoles? Could have been amazing.
CharlesW 4y ago
> It's the only ecosystem in the list where you can buy a game and have your progress synced between a performance device and a portable device. Just a reminder that console streaming exists, which can work really well. https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/remote-play https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/remote-play

yCombLinks 4y ago

Nintendo has always been about first party games.

ekianjo 4y ago
That's right. Nobody cares about how powerful the hardware is, as long as they know it's where they will play the next Mario and Zelda games.
- WithinReason 4y ago
  Ironically, the Steam Deck emulates Switch games better than the Switch runs them.

baby 4y ago

The same seems to be true with the Quest and the Valve Index, the Quest seem to optimize on portability and convenience

Kukumber 4y ago

Both Nintendo/Sony sold ~3x more than Microsoft last month Steam Deck numbers are nothing compared to what these 3 are selling, if i remember correctly, it was 1 million reservations total for a whole year, that sounds like a flop to my book when you compare with the 3 existing players I think next gen we'll see Sony getting back into the handheld market, Nintendo coming up with a second version, and Microsoft coming up with a cloud stick Microsoft doubling down on cloud gaming might kill their Xbox brand, it's too early for that, they'll miss the handheld market just like they missed the smartphone era https://www.vgchartz.com/ https://www.vgchartz.com/

cubefox 4y ago
Sony building a Switch competitor for the next generation, in addition to a PlayStation 6? That sounds very unlikely to me. With the Switch form factor, it would have to be a lot closer to the PlayStation 6 than the small PSP was to the PlayStation 3. I don't think Sony wants to have two similar consoles on the market; they would compete with themselves. And the memories of the PSVita misfortune will deter them further. No, I think they just do an ordinary PS6 and nothing else. They could, theoretically, make the PS6 itself a hybrid like the Switch, but that would be a really bad strategy, since they'd give up their stationary dominance to Microsoft just to compete with a market where Nintendo is dominant.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  Sony will have to prepare for the cloud gaming revolution once network infrastructure will match the grid network infrastructure A handheld will be the catalyzer for cloud gaming market, just like what smartphones did to landline telephones I can see a PS6 with a handheld as companion, it perfectly make sense, if they don't then that'd be a missed opportunity It definitely is better than Xbox X/S, Microsoft missed a huge opportunity there, they have to manufacture 2 different SKU (sony will soon have just one with their modular design) I can't be the only one to sense this signal? If they don't do a handheld then that could only mean they got pressured to not do it, by whom? shareholders? insiders? 3rd-party? The PSVita story is unfortunate, but lot of solid reasons why it didn't do as good as they'd have hoped, it sold ~ same as the WiiU and yet Nintendo doubled down and were successful with the Switch, it could have been PSVita2 or PSP2 and Sony would have found similar success, even thought Switch took some time before going mainstream, that's another evidence that the market is demanding it, you can see it with the boom of the handheld retro consoles that all are running android/linux Successful games like CoD Mobile and Genshin Impact, as well as the countless of games getting ported to the Switch and Smartphones is a better evidence than my comment, smartphone users are demanding premium games, and that played a big role in the Switch success

fnands 4y ago

Super exciting to see where this all goes. As consumers, having the big boys competing for our attention is great place to be.

Dalewyn 4y ago

>but can theoretically push 4k@120hz for the cost of a graphics card. While a desktop computer can't get anywhere near that price range for similar performance (because, other than Intel ARC, video card prices are still ridiculous across the board...), the cost of a decently performant desktop computer actually isn't as high as most would think if you just use low- to mid-tier hardware instead of going for the high-end stuff. Anyway, as far as the question of market share space: It's still the same players, with the small addition of Valve potentially carving a niche for itself. Sony hasn't delved into mobile since the PS Vita, and Microsoft has flat out never bothered with mobile gaming. As for Nintendo, they'll do Nintendo things as they always do.

NineStarPoint 4y ago

It’s important to recognize that while the Steam deck is awesome, it’s sold 1 million compared to the 100 million of the Switch. Nintendo has massive name recognition and exclusives of course, but also price. The cheapest Steam Deck is 400 dollars, whereas the Switch is 300. For people who don’t already have big steam libraries and don’t care about open hardware, the Switch is where they’re going to go for a mobile console. Then Sony and Xbox compete on exclusives but ultimately I think there’s room for everyone in the space regardless. Gaming is probably the most lucrative entertainment sector at this point, and mobile gaming hasn’t eaten console gaming yet. A generation or two more from the next one…harder to say.

hbn 4y ago
> The cheapest Steam Deck is 400 dollars, whereas the Switch is 300. The Switch's entry price is actually $200 for the Switch Lite. I think it's even had small discounts on occasion too.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  The Lite is the portable-only version that's mainly for solo play. Doesn't come with a cradle, can't slot into a cradle and TV output is disabled, so no TV out, integrated controls (no detachable joycons, so you can't do that thing where you take your switch somewhere then pop the joycons off and play 2-player games) Not countering what you wrote, just clarifying what that device is. (personally, if they didn't deliberately cripple its ability to do TV out at all, I'd buy a lite instead of the regular Switch—I hate using joycons so we have like three pro controllers anyway, and the joycon dock points have proven a highly-breakable weak spot on my Switches so far, under actual use by kids)
Steltek 4y ago
Hasn't console gaming always outperformed PC gaming marketshare? I'm not sure people even really compare costs for videogames. If they did, they'd notice that everytime you buy a new Nintendo system, you have to re-purchase all of your old games if you want to run them on the new platform. You don't have the same problem with PC games. I'm finding that even 10+ year old PC games are still enjoyable today. Maybe more so than originally because my own hardware has advanced and I can pump up the graphics quite a bit. My back catalog of games in Steam isn't something you get from traditional console makers.

ushtaritk421 4y ago

Steam deck is an extension of the already existing PC gaming market. I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. Steam Deck just makes it so those PC gamers will care if a game runs well on Linux. The point isn’t to take over the console market but to defend the PC gaming market from console exclusivity and Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store

gpanders 4y ago
>I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. I don’t know if I’m in the minority or not, but I have never owned a gaming PC, and have not had a console since I was a teenager with an Xbox 360. I’m now 30, and I bought the Steam Deck precisely because of its portability.
pibechorro 4y ago
I dont pc game. I dont have space for a giant tower, etc. My main computer is a laptop (x1 carbon). The steamdeck allows me to enjoy all the awesome pc games, stores in a drawer, its portable if i want it to, and i dont need 4k 1000fps, 1080p and 30 to 60fps is plenty to single play with q screen on my couch. I am not a professional gamer, i dont need a full desk worth of gear. I am also busy, its nice not to worry about hardware, just plug and play (i did upgrade the ssd myself though). Its a great device.
rockostrich 4y ago
I'm considering getting rid of my PC in favor of just gaming on my Steam Deck no matter where I am. If they somehow figure out how to create a dock with an external GPU then I'd 100% buy it and sell my PC since I need to play some games on low to medium setting when I want to play at 1080 to 1440.
ascagnel_ 4y ago
> Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store That was initially the case for SteamOS/Steam Machines, but the MS Store has been a _resounding_ failure in the gaming market. It's use is largely limited to PC Game Pass subscribers, who use it as the download backend for the Xbox app (which is the primary interface for installing/managing games). If anything, it's a way for Valve to hedge against streaming platforms.

nonethewiser 4y ago

I think there is enough room for each. The switch basically exists because there is no reason not to have a portable form factor if your console is going to be so underpowered (compared to Xbox, PlayStation).

aloer 4y ago

There is a third category worth considering and that’s cloud gaming with a thin client. Since January GeForce now supports 4k@120 and the hardware required to render that is probably going to be much less than the next gen kind of switch will have. I would not be surprised to see tv sticks + controller given away for basically free. Like stadia but properly this time. It won’t be for everyone and I have no idea how quick they can scale this but it’s nonetheless an interesting development. Currently there’s a bit of a hybrid thing going on with ideas that combine cloud gaming with Xbox or PlayStation but here the consumer still has to pay for more hardware than necessary for streaming only