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James Bond books edited to remove racist references
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- petodo 4y agoExample of "racist reference" from article: "Another altered scene features Bond visiting Harlem in New York, where a salacious strip tease at a nightclub makes the male crowd, including 007, increasingly agitated. The original passage read: “Bond could hear the audience panting and grunting like pigs at the trough. He felt his own hands gripping the tablecloth. His mouth was dry.” The revised section replaces the pigs reference with: “Bond could sense the electric tension in the room.” Not exactly sure why would it have different description in any night club, no matter what location (which I didn't even noticed at first).
- tsuujin 4y agoIt seems more like it’s poking fun at male chauvinism than racial stereotypes.
- FooBarBizBazz 4y agoNot disagreeing, but I noticed something: It's funny when we use the word "chauvinism" -- which means "belief in superiority" (whether in a natural "is" sense or a social "ought" sense) -- to instead mean "weakness and thirst".
- GenerocUsername 4y agoYes but these days it is considered racist to publish ANYTHING that portrays POC in a negative mannor. It is important for media consumers to only associate POCs with positive attributes
- dumpsterlid 4y ago[dead]
- JesusLovesEwe 4y ago[flagged]
- brookst 4y agoYou’re sort of on to something. The idea is that after hundreds of years of having skin color implicitly indicate a whether a character is smart/dumb, good/evil, etc, people are over correcting and not wanting to highlight art that follows old stereotypes, even if the natural distribution of personalities means that realistically some black people will be awful. In time it will even out. For now people are justifiably not wanting to argue about whether their poorly educated, highly violent, dishonest, obsequious black character is bravely demonstrating that all races can be terrible, and not just a lazy racist stereotype like we’ve seen over and over for the past hundreds of years.
- GenerocUsername 4y agoExactly. As with all things labeled 'equity' rather 'equallity', we are currently testing if two wrongs do in fact equal a right.
- petodo 4y agoIt is, but I guess censors saw that strip club was in Harlem thus most of the patrons would be black, thus they are called pigs, thus it's racist. Quite a stretch to me, but only explanation why they changed it, unless they have problem with strip club visitors being called pigs which I think it's pretty appropriate even in 2023.
- ravenstine 4y agoAnd they say that slippery slopes are just a fallacy.
- blockwriter 4y agoIt’s incredibly pathetic and speaks to the inanity of this movement in the publishing industry that they edit old ips instead of investing in new ip that exemplifies their newfound principles.
- NullPrefix 4y agoNew woke ip flops belly up, so they take what they can. Edit: Question to the downvoter: Which woke IP didn't flop?
- rideontime 4y agoAvatar
- NullPrefix 4y ago>'Avatar 2' is already the 10th highest-grossing movie ever made OK, point taken
- humanizersequel 4y agoI don't think the original Avatar was particularly "woke", what makes you say that? Edit: and Avatar 2 is not an example of a "new IP"
- NullPrefix 4y agoHaven't seen the second, but afaik the internets are telling me it's woke enough. I was following the logic of "why change old Bond releases when you can release a new woke Bond"
- op00to 4y agoWhat does “woke” mean?
- 4y ago
- karaterobot 4y ago> “A number of updates have been made in this edition, while keeping as close as possible to the original text and the period in which it is set.” Not sure how this sentence is supposed to work. Surely the point of doing this is to bowdlerize the original text to suit the period in which it is being published.
- faeriechangling 4y agoSo should we avoid legal publishers for classic books at this point?
- LinuxBender 4y agoDoes this make the original books collectors editions and if so, what is such a thing called when the original is no longer available? Asking because I have some folk music from the 60's/70's and hip-hop from the 80's that has since been pulled from the market for similar reasons.
- op00to 4y ago“Out of print”. This term has been around since slightly after the 15th century. Maybe back then it was “ye olde out ofeth printeth”.
- LinuxBender 4y ago𝒢𝓇𝒶𝓃𝓉 𝓎𝑜𝓊 𝓂𝑒𝓇𝒸𝓎 𝒸𝑜𝓊𝓈𝒾𝓃. 𝐼 𝓈𝒽𝒶𝓁𝓁 𝓊𝓈𝑒𝓉𝒽 𝓎𝑜𝓃𝒹 𝓉'𝓇𝓂 𝑜𝓃 𝑒𝒷𝒶𝓎 𝒶𝓉 𝓌𝒽𝒾𝒸𝒽 𝒽𝑜𝓊𝓇 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒾𝓂𝑒𝓉𝒽 𝒸𝑜𝓂𝑒𝓉𝒽 Thanks friend. I will use that term on ebay when the time comes
- op00to 4y agoeBay is excellent for out of print books!
- LocalH 4y agoHonestly? If the choice is between "lock these works away because they contain something that could be offensive" or "bowdlerize the shit out of everything", then as far as I'm concerned, lock 'em up and throw away the key. At least they'll still exist in that form if they do so, for future generations to regain access to, once society realizes that this is not the way.
- op00to 4y agoHave you read the James Bond books? I have. They’re terrible. Like, ignoring the racist bullshit they’re pablum. This is not some huge societal loss.
- sircastor 4y agoTerrible or not, they are a significant cultural icon (even if they don’t correlate closely to the films) to 20th century western culture.
- op00to 4y agoDid I miss in the article that the original version of the Bond books are somehow contraband? I’ve got an entire set of yellowing paperbacks somewhere. I hope they don’t come for me!
- dustfinger 4y agoIt is a matter of precedence. Censoring written works is a slippery slope. Eventually, you end up with a documented history that never was.
- nhchris 4y agoEvery record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoThe party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
- andybak 4y agoI'm bored with people rolling this quote out and I disagree with the premise. This is much more like Victorian prudery and moral panics than some foreshadowing of a totalitarian state. Stop being overly dramatic.
- paganel 4y agoThis is pure censorship, belittling people who call it out means taking the the side of censorship. Nothing overly “dramatic” about it (there’s also something to be said about using the word “dramatic” with a negative connotation).
- starkd 4y agoEven if the revisions are fairly innocuous in themselves, it is still altering history in a way that impedes future generations from an honest legitimate view of history. Imagine a world with a filtered awareness for history. It is a closing of the mind.
- acdha 4y agoExcept it’s entirely voluntarily done by the owners themselves. Nobody forced them to do it, there hasn’t been an organized protest asking them to, it’s just a business making decisions about what they think will boost sales. Capitalists making independent business decisions is pretty far from 1984.
- monsecchris 4y agoAll of art, history and culture just needs a few minor corrections.
- op00to 4y agoNo, but if there’s overt racism that doesn’t add to the pulpy paperback meant to pass the time, changing that racism could interest new consumers who aren’t titillated by inane racism.
- throwuwu 4y agoThere are quite a few more “isms” in those books. They weren’t made for modern audiences.
- monsecchris 4y agoYour concern for racism is admirable. How do you feel about the racism in the Quran, does it require a few well advised changes too?
- op00to 4y agoI have never read the Quran, so I couldn’t possibly comment. You seem to be a scholar in the Quran, and that too is admirable! If there were a market for rewriting the Quran to eliminate aspects you find objectionable, you’re well within your rights to do so. No cultural heritage will be destroyed. The existing books still exist, and now your new version also exists. In much the same way, the 007 paperbacks (yeah, the old school ones) will remain in some forgotten corner in my house probably until my kids have to clear it out. They’ll probably thumb through one and laugh at its outdated language and style. No one is coming to take the books away.
- monsecchris 4y agoIt seems you have great insight for adjustments in many books excluding one that has the most outdated ideas of them all which you conveniently know nothing about.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y agoOn the one hand, I understand wanting to make the works more palatable to contemporary audiences. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of whitewashing our sorted past in this way. On the gripping hand, the foaming-at-the-mouth anti-woke crowd makes it difficult to not see them as exactly the reason people think this sort of thing needs to be done.
- labrador 4y agoPerhaps the book industry should borrow a technique from the music industry: Songs are often released in two versions, one a "radio edit" which means it's sanitized for broadcast and another "dirty" version with a "Explicit Lyrics" warning on the label Edit: Or the movie industry which releases "Directors Cut" versions
- ztetranz 4y agoChrist you know it ain't easy.
- sircastor 4y agoThere's even precedent for this - the "airline" version of the film. Which has largely gone by the wayside since individual seats started getting their own infotainment systems. Side rant - As a parent bringing my kid onto flights, I don't let them watch content I'm not okay with, but if the person in-front of me decides to turn on something horrible, the best I can do is try to block his view of their screen.
- ajmurmann 4y agoIt's interesting that the article calls out that James Bond had been modified in the past with reduced sex scenes to appease the US audience. This has happened with other IPs as well. It's interesting that AFAIK that wasn't hit with the same pushback by the right in the US.
- delecti 4y agoPushback from the right is largely whatever the rubes get tricked into thinking is a problem at any moment. See also drag (Ru Paul was prime time television 30 years ago), trans people (loads of front page examples of celebrated transitions going back to the 1930s and 40s, see Mark Weston and Christine Jorgensen), or "critical race theory" (an obscure law school topic for 25 years until anyone on the right cared).
- boomboomsubban 4y agoSo using the n word is unacceptable, but calling homosexuality a disease is fine? If you're censoring the books, that's a bizarre place to draw the line.
- hardwaregeek 4y agoI’m kinda curious who these are supposed to be for. Like are there a bunch of progressive people who would just loooove to read James Bond, the sexist alcoholic murderer, but he’s just too racist for them? With children’s books I can kinda see the rationale but with James Bond? Just seems like a desperate ploy to sell more copies that nobody actually wants.
- throwuwu 4y ago“Connery” said it best: anal bum covers i.e. they’re just covering their asses.
- OscarCunningham 4y agoI think it's reputation management. If they reduce the proportion of people reading the old racist versions, then there's less chance of a reader making a snarky tweet that goes viral and instills in society the idea that Bond is racist. This is in spite of the fact that each individual customer would choose the unsanitized version for themselves.
- acdha 4y agoI think your last sentence is it: they have a franchise which was quite valuable in the past but has been ebbing, and some suit at the publishing house really wants to believe that the problem is some word choices rather than that most people who want to read a novel old enough to retire already have a copy.
- tty893453 4y ago[dead]
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoBoy, do the censors have their work cut out for them... I was raised on Asterix[0] and Tintin[1] graphic novels. Not to mention the 1940s-era Tom and Jerry cartoons[2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry
- jawerty 4y agoRather than editing books from our past to fit what makes you feel better why not write your own books without these phrases you don't like. Speaking as a black guy who could of been "hurt" from reading a James Bond book haha. Are my future kids reading Huckleberry Finn gonna assume riding down the Mississippi river back then would of been completely not racial? Great novels are largely historical records. You're reading paintings of humanity behind the mask of the times.
- op00to 4y agoThe old versions of the books are not burned. They exist.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoEverything is a product of a flawed human in one point in time. I think that some things are more significant because they stand in such contrast to other things at the time and place they were produced. I enjoy coming across some anachronistic work and finding how ahead of their time the author was. It could be something like an abolitionist or gay-rights advocate hundreds of years ago. It's inspiring. If I read these Bond books I might come away thinking that Ian Fleming was something that he was not.
- drewcoo 4y agoWait. He's still an assassin, though, right? Double O means "license to kill." And nobody has a problem with that? It's ok to kill people for a living, just have the right attitude while you do it!
- petodo 4y agoreminds me of Meta drawing the line when it's allowed to call for murder of some groups, if it's the Russians feel free to call for violence against them, if it's someone else here is ban for you https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-facebook-instagram-temporarily-allow-calls-violence-against-russians-2022-03-10/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-facebook-inst...
- foxes 4y ago[flagged]
- cafard 4y agoNot that I'm a fan of Ian Fleming, but I look forward to seeing the form factor when the sexist references go.