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Wow HN. I really interesting new product comes out, a really interesting turn in the right to repair debate, and a return of a famous brand. And instead of ta
by jimnotgym 4y ago
Wow HN. I really interesting new product comes out, a really interesting turn in the right to repair debate, and a return of a famous brand.
And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in?
- pimeys 4y agoI've been looking for a browser extension I could use to filter certain things out from my internet feeds. For example making anything related to Apple completely vanish for me. I wonder could the GPT be utilized for this?
- capableweb 4y agoUser-scripts is what you're looking for, commonly use to customize your browsing experience with small JS scripts. Can be run with for example TamperMonkey. Writing a script that blacks out or filters comments with a mention of Apple would be trivial ("if .comment's innerText contains Apple, $element.remove()" in short)
- cwillu 4y agoI made an Ask HN post on this subject a while back. Got 10 upvotes before it got flagged and hidden. :)
- pimeys 4y agoI actually stopped reading HN as much as I used to in the past 10+ years because of this. I found out running a small fediverse server and just curating my own feed keeps all the Apple stuff out from my view, and it's also easy to just hide/ban/filter people. It's sad, because I really don't want to jump in into many HN threads anymore...
- mlinksva 4y agoThe positive (and there's plenty of criticism; search and read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration. This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no? I'm recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2 if not for lack of updates, as it's still completely fine hardware wise. I guess if I had been an Apple fanboi, I would've had at least 1 fewer phones in that time period. Really made me think this last time. Hoping my eventual 5th smartphone will have very long support and very good repariability.
- gambiting 4y agoOn the other hand I can still get modern versions of android with all the security updates for some ancient android phones, you just have to do a tiny bit of tinkering with unlocking the bootloader first. That's something you can't do with any iPhone.
- rustymonday 4y agoI had an iPhone 4 many years ago, and Apple nerfed it with software updates when the iPhone 6 came out. These updates significantly slowed down the phone, pretty much forcing me to get a new one after only two years. So I bought an Android and never looked back.
- whitemary 4y agoApple actually lost a lawsuit over this, but of course it didn't matter because the capitalist government theatre is controlled by the ruling class protecting their own, so Apple still came out on top.
- qwytw 4y agoIIRC due to the degrading/faulty(?) batteries they had to choose between random shutdowns and slowing down the phone. I'm not sure I agree with the way they handled this but I don't think they did that because of "corporate greed".
- Klonoar 4y agoSo just to be clear: you want to discuss a smartphone, in a vacuum, completely ignoring what - barring a few select Android phones - effectively sets the bar for the industry. It’s not “fanbois”, it’s just reality. HN isn’t the one that needs to get a grip here.
- jimnotgym 4y agoPeople could compare the Nokia to comparable phones perhaps? There are other repairable phones available, although I don't recall any this cheap? In other news my Ford is not as comfortable as your Rolls Royce, and my Sekonda watch is not going to last like your Rolex....
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Klonoar 4y ago>People could compare the Nokia to comparable phones perhaps? They could! And in fact, do. OP, however, is complaining about the existence of the Apple comparison, which is simply unavoidable. I'm just responding that instead of complaining about it, move on to the discussions that float your boat.
- mNovak 4y ago>> and my Sekonda watch is not going to last like your Rolex... No one tell my Timex! This thing's running for life
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y agoSince when has Apple ever made an easily repairable budget anything? This is a niche in which Apple is non existent.
- dzhiurgis 4y agoSince last year their phones have best ranking https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability (Yes Fairphone have excellent score too, but they are basically ancient)
- sheeparepayed 4y ago[flagged]
- Towaway69 4y agoOr keeping the price up on the second hand market?
- lopatin 4y agoI just assumed the repair kit is for anything the Nokia is dropped on rather than the phone itself.
- mikkom 4y agoIt's worth noting that even if this phone is called "Nokia" it doesn't have much to do with original Nokia phones. It's a new company that bought the rights to use the Nokia brand name.
- e63f67dd-065b 4y agoThere’s a funny story here, HMD Global just so happens to have very similar execs and employees as the former Nokia, some of whom work in the HQ that just so happens to be right across from the old Nokia HQ. The company is very much a spiritual successor to Nokia.
- nonethewiser 4y ago> And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in? I agree with your sentiment but think we overestimate how much people value right to repair. This is some proof.
- justinclift 4y ago> we overestimate how much people value right to repair. After all this time, perhaps it's more stockholm syndrome?
- dotnet00 4y agoFawning over Apple products is inescapable here. Anything with a CPU must be compared to overly magical interpretations of an M1's capabilities.
- rconti 4y agoAnd instead, I join the comments, and the top-rated post is a counter-rant about Apple fanbois that's frankly no more constructive or useful than the content it's complaining about.
- dzikimarian 4y agoProbably there was enough people tired of fanbois. Even half of this thread is full of them. There's at least weekly Apple worship thread on HN, about laptop speakers, icons they did 20 years ago or other largerly irrelevant thing, that Apple apparently did kinda well. It's always full of people exclaiming that "Apple is so ahead of competition". Really it's face-palm worthy.
- liendolucas 4y agoYes, but is not only the right to repair. For how long Nokia is willing to manufacture spare parts for this phone? A year, two? What if after 3 year my phone breaks and I can't repair it not because a repair issue per se but because of part availability. This already happened to me with a Nokia 7 Plus, which is a phone I like because it came with Android One. Now on the tech side, the phone is just fine, camera specs, screen is really good, battery is still good. I broke the charging board and the screen. Original parts for it no longer produced, only OEM ones with lower quality. So I would take this with a grain of salt. So will I need to buy the phone and immediately a pack of spare parts just in case because tomorrow they will be no longer available?
- bingo-bongo 4y agoTo be fair: “..and genuine parts available for five years via..” ..but even so, it’s still a valid concern.
- izacus 4y agoI've noticed that modern Americans really really really dispise choice on the market. If it differs even a little bit from the average, watered down "majority" choice, it's immediately attacked and disparaged. You need to be part of the ingroup, have the same brands in your hand and on your body. Like the 1984 Apple ad - everyone with gray iphone, gray MacBook and AirPods in their ears.
- arcanemachiner 4y agoAn easy fix is to have a modicum of self esteem.
- bitdeveloper 4y agoI mean, I have to figure out which peanut butter to buy from a shelf of 37 peanut butters. If anything, there's too much choice in a lot of cases. It's tiring. I've heard way more Android users disparaging iPhones than vice versa. If anything, the fault of iPhone users is not even knowing or caring anything else exists.
- hot_gril 4y agoNo. I have nothing against choice, I just want the best phone, and it's not this. If only there were a thriving set of standards for mobile/desktop web apps that obviates the need to stick to the iPhone/Android OS duopoly cemented by their app stores, I'd probably change phones.
- ipaddr 4y agoYou just want the best phone? Why not a phone that does the things you want and need? Why the best? The best of today is gone tomorrow. The best phone last year is not the best things year. The worst phone this year is better than the best phone 10 years ago. How long are you going to try to keep up the mirage of having the best? Every new phone release must cause massive panic
- hot_gril 4y agoI mean the best phone for myself. That happens to be a first-gen iPhone SE at the moment, but I'd be ok with whatever iPhone, and I don't care how repairable it is.
- rektide 4y agoRight to repair, but the software is uttely unmaintainable & actively rotting. This is cool, but it shows how bad the Android world is. The hardware is only half the picture. Iphone just happens to be the obvious comparison.
- jrm4 4y agoSeriously, what is meant by this? I'm asking as someone who way back when had a nokia n900, did some android rooting, then when that got unrewarding essentially switched to "whatever is second cheapest at Best Buy at the time" and have had zero major problems doing pretty much all the regular life things (and this includes e.g. Pokemon Go with the kids?)
- rektide 4y agoFew phones even support rooting anymore. Most phones never ever get a new kernel, & most kernels are incredibly difficult vendor-provided messes whose source is basically useless, utterly incompatible with upstream Linux & unable to be applied at all to newer kernel versions. Maybe maybe maybe the new Android plan of creating stable interfaces for drivers improves this but it's to soon to tell. The n900 was from an actual Linux era. Versus Android which was a sideways port of Danger's mobile OS onto Linux, & unlike Maemo ignoring the entire Linux userland/freedesktop stack.
- tomrod 4y ago> one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in? Aye. Almost like we shouldn't have a conversation about Android without mentioning the spyware and telemetry that both Android and IOS collect being more than enough reason to use Purism and other open alternatives. #stallman_was_right
- SergeAx 4y agoApple fanboys really need to convince themselves that their phones are better, otherwise it's an existential threat for their egos.
- dang 4y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's tedious, not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- KyeRussell 4y agoLet me guess. This is a view you picked up in - at the latest - the 2000s, and haven’t once reflected on since then. What’s next? A joke about writing a novel at Starbucks? People that - especially in 2023 - make your argument, are tying technology choices to personality just as much (and quite likely way more) than any current “Apple fanboy”. I’ve got no doubt that your ego is tied up in your technology choices. You’re on Hacker News for crying out loud. Your impression of the “other team” is just particularly…outdated.
- r0fl 4y agoWhy would I care about a DIY repair phone? Am I to assume that all of a sudden I’m a phone repair expert and when I take my phone apart I’ll be able to put it together perfectly and keep the same waterproof levels as a manufacturer would? This is at best an out of the box marketing gimmick by Nokia to sell some phones.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- stodor89 4y agoNo, it seems we can't. Welcome to 2023!
- ENGNR 4y agoIt’s the meta rules: I agree - upvote I disagree - leave a comment But to buck the trend - go Nokia, a phone like an x86 is a great thing for hackers and to break monopolies, fingers crossed it finds and connects with a large consumer segment
- smoldesu 4y agoNothing brings people on HN together like technology, business, and valiently defending Apple from any form of grounded criticism.
- dang 4y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's tedious, not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sva_ 4y agoThats like the recent thread where someone asked for a good Linux laptop, and the top comment was to buy a mac. I'll never understand this brand loyalism/consumer mentality, and to what lengths Apple folks will go to promote, justify, and defend their purchase decisions.
- nazka 4y agoI don’t get it. Why a Mac cannot be a good Linux laptop?
- eptcyka 4y agoThey can, but none of the current ones are well supported.
- nazka 4y agoAh ok thanks. Is it because of the new M1/M2 architecture?
- traviswt 4y agoI think Asahi Linux is where the progress is. Looking promising but rough. Lots of reverse engineering.
- eptcyka 4y agoT2 chips aren't supported too well either.
- cmurf 4y agoThat's one aspect. They implement UEFI, but no support for user loading of certificates. So you have to disable Secure Boot, making it considerably less secure than alternatives. There's no interface or drivers for T2, so again less secure than alternatives with TPM 2.0.
- sva_ 4y agoI think you'd have to be willing to be extremely enthusiastic dealing with all the shortcomings of the experimental support currently. Maybe older MacBooks are somewhat supported, but the ARM (Asahi Linux) is alpha right now, and a lot of stuff simply isn't implemented. There's also some individual differences, i.e. from what I've heard you won't ever be able to run something like the Xen Hypervisor as Apple didn't fully implement the Arm spec s.t. some opcodes are missing.
- dang 4y ago"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jimnotgym 4y agoHi dang. I'm sorry it degenerated like this. I generally wanted to read what the hn crowd had to say about about this new device, but all I saw was the usual trolling by an all too loud group. 90% of the comments were (and still are) off topic at best. However I understand that moderation is not my job and rather than calling it out I should have flagged it for you. Since we are in a rare discussion though, I see a growing number of comments from users who are getting very frustrated by the actions of the fanatically pro-Elon and pro-Apple cabal. Since any criticism of them seems to invite a flamewar, I am concerned that debate is getting stiffled. I really hope they are just enthusiasts and not staff guerrilla marketeers, but the effect is the same. We should be discussing this phone and instead we are reading Apple marketing.
- dang 4y agoThe problem is more the upvotes than the comments because it's the upvotes that stick a post like the GP to the top of a thread, which creates all sorts of unintended escalations, as well as derailing the thread into offtopicness. But the only way to prevent this from happening is not to post such comments in the first place. I think you're off base about "trolling" in this and similar cases. From my perspective HN readers just like different things and have different opinions. I didn't see any trolling or manipulation in the current thread for example. Internet users are orders-of-magnitude too quick to jump to such conclusions.