5 ms·

I really miss the 90s version of Neal. Snow crash was foundational/awesome. Then he just went weirder and weirder and weirder. I kept waiting for a return to t

by tpmx 4y ago

I really miss the 90s version of Neal. Snow crash was foundational/awesome. Then he just went weirder and weirder and weirder. I kept waiting for a return to that awesomeness for like 20 years before I gave up.

quacked 4y ago
Cryptonomicon is one of my favorite novels, and I loved Snow Crash and The Big U. I find I find his current stuff unreadable, but I can't put my finger on why.
- tpmx 4y ago
  Yeah Cryptonomicon (1999) was good. It had great parts but as a whole it wasn't great. Way too unfocused. In that aspect a preview of things to come.
  - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
    It's weird that I so fundamentally disagree; it really drives home how subjective fiction is. I strongly prefer Cryptonomicon to Snow Crash. I'm a big Stephenson fan, and I find his post-Cryptonomicon stuff more focused (or at least more cohesive? Structurally cogent?) on a conceptual level. I revisited Snow Crash a few years ago, and liked it much, much less than I remembered - I wouldn't describe it as a disciplined novel. It's a baggy mess with the same maximalist bent of his later work. it's a discursive, meandering story that synthesizes disparate concepts in a very fun way. But, it never gels too well; it sort of feels like he lashed a hyper-globalized-strip-mall-hellscape dystopia to a parody of the cyberpunk aesthetic, and superglued both of those things to Julian Jaynes. It just happens to indulge his maximalist tendencies in a smaller page budget, and fails to get the best of either a short novel or a big messy "idea-novel." Don't get me wrong, like you, I found the first reading of Snow Crash a formative experience as a SF fan. But I'd also never read anything like cyberpunk; I was solidly a Niven Kid in middle school, completely ignorant of post-New Wave SF. I think a lot of what I found special as a kid was actually done better elsewhere. In terms of that "90's Retrofuturistic So-Cal Strip Mall Apocalypse" brand of cyberpunk, I think William Gibson's Virtual Light was far more satisfying to revisit. It's a more assured, contained novel, and to my surprise, I think the relative restraint yields a much funnier novel than Snow Crash.
    - tpmx 4y ago
      > I find his post-Cryptonomicon stuff more focused (or at least more cohesive? Structurally cogent?) on a conceptual level. Are you looking to be delighted by words rather than ideas? Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here, but you seem you like your complex language constructs, so to speak? English is a second language to me. I wonder if this isn't also a factor. The ideas in Snow Crash where really the most important things.. next to brilliant writing style (the deliverator...).
      - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
        > Are you looking to be delighted by words rather than ideas? Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here, Possibly! Prose style is pretty important to me. On the other hand, that's not something I generally complain about with Stephenson. Even when he misfires, the result is usually entertaining. Being bland is a bigger sin, IMO, and not one he commits often. I think the two go hand-in-hand for me. Having both is best, but I'll take either. > but you seem you like your complex language constructs, so to speak? Hah, my writing style owes to more to me not taking the time to edit that I should. Also ADHD. Probably both. > English is a second language to me. I wonder if isn't also a factor. Hm. I don't know! I could see some of the sections being a real slog, though. > The ideas in Snow Crash where really the most important things.. next to brilliant writing style (the deliverator...). I love the collection of ideas, it was a fun bit of sci-fi! I just felt like it was missing something to really make it fit together better. I agree that the writing is a ton of fun in it too, I love the opening bit describing how the Uncle Enzo's Pizza company runs a whole battery of experiments to try and understand why people are so aggressive about late pizza. I think about this stretch and laugh very hard every once in a while: "... [Uncle Enzo's Pizza's researchers] studied their brain waves as they showed them choppy, inexplicable movies of porn queens and late-night car crashes and Sammy Davis, Jr., put them in sweet-smelling, mauve-walled rooms and asked them questions about Ethics so perplexing that even a Jesuit couldn’t respond without committing a venial sin."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Did Stephenson become like the Pynchon of sci-fi or something? Cryptonomicon is such a huge book.
    - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
      I don't mean this in a snarky way at all. I'm being completely genuine. I always thought of Pynchon as the Pynchon of sci-fi. If Cryptonomicon is sci-fi, then Gravity's Rainbow definitely is, if not more so.
- e12e 4y ago
  Maybe it's because I read Singh's excellent "the code book" right before "Cryptonomicon" - but I found it a mediocre, overly long and contrived take on similar concept/material. I thought "Snow Crash" was fun, and "Diamond Age" is one of my favorite books - although - come to think of it - it's probably about time I read it again...
- kadoban 4y ago
  Zodiac is really good if you haven't read it. Not as good as his later stuff, but a lot of fun.
world2vec 4y ago
Snowcrash, Cryptonomicon and Diamond Age are absolute gems. I've read these 3 books multiple times. I've read all the other books but they are indeed weirder and weirder and don't really appeal to me.
- beambot 4y ago
  I really like Seveneves too.
  - world2vec 4y ago
    The first half was interesting. The second part not so much IMHO, Neal went really into epigenetics in such a bizarre way.
    - ghiculescu 4y ago
      ^ Agree. Similarly I thought Anathem started really well and then became very confusing toward the end. Also REAMDE was fun, maybe he wasn't trying as hard but I liked that.
- comboy 4y ago
  Any elaboration on why do you find Cryptonomicon in particular worth re-reading? It seemed pretty verbose.
  - world2vec 4y ago
    It is very verbose, wacky and all over the place, and that's precisely why I like to re-read it every 3 years or so. ;)
  - e12e 4y ago
    My theory is that after the success of Diamond Age, editors stopped cutting the manuscripts down to the third that was good... :'(
    - 4y ago
hprotagonist 4y ago
Anathem absolutely nailed it for me. i love that book.
- cld8483 4y ago
  Same. It took me a few years to get past the first few pages, but once I did that book just clicked for me.
- more_corn 4y ago
  That is super good to hear. I’ve got it on my shelf unread.
askvictor 4y ago
Seems to alternate nowadays between a sci-fi-tinted-page-turner that goes to some really weird places, and an intellectual sci-fi (that also goes some weird places, but that's pretty common for sci-fi).

by tpmx 4y ago

quacked 4y ago

Cryptonomicon is one of my favorite novels, and I loved Snow Crash and The Big U. I find I find his current stuff unreadable, but I can't put my finger on why.

tpmx 4y ago
Yeah Cryptonomicon (1999) was good. It had great parts but as a whole it wasn't great. Way too unfocused. In that aspect a preview of things to come.
- MikeBVaughn 4y ago
  It's weird that I so fundamentally disagree; it really drives home how subjective fiction is. I strongly prefer Cryptonomicon to Snow Crash. I'm a big Stephenson fan, and I find his post-Cryptonomicon stuff more focused (or at least more cohesive? Structurally cogent?) on a conceptual level. I revisited Snow Crash a few years ago, and liked it much, much less than I remembered - I wouldn't describe it as a disciplined novel. It's a baggy mess with the same maximalist bent of his later work. it's a discursive, meandering story that synthesizes disparate concepts in a very fun way. But, it never gels too well; it sort of feels like he lashed a hyper-globalized-strip-mall-hellscape dystopia to a parody of the cyberpunk aesthetic, and superglued both of those things to Julian Jaynes. It just happens to indulge his maximalist tendencies in a smaller page budget, and fails to get the best of either a short novel or a big messy "idea-novel." Don't get me wrong, like you, I found the first reading of Snow Crash a formative experience as a SF fan. But I'd also never read anything like cyberpunk; I was solidly a Niven Kid in middle school, completely ignorant of post-New Wave SF. I think a lot of what I found special as a kid was actually done better elsewhere. In terms of that "90's Retrofuturistic So-Cal Strip Mall Apocalypse" brand of cyberpunk, I think William Gibson's Virtual Light was far more satisfying to revisit. It's a more assured, contained novel, and to my surprise, I think the relative restraint yields a much funnier novel than Snow Crash.
  - tpmx 4y ago
    > I find his post-Cryptonomicon stuff more focused (or at least more cohesive? Structurally cogent?) on a conceptual level. Are you looking to be delighted by words rather than ideas? Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here, but you seem you like your complex language constructs, so to speak? English is a second language to me. I wonder if this isn't also a factor. The ideas in Snow Crash where really the most important things.. next to brilliant writing style (the deliverator...).
    - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
      > Are you looking to be delighted by words rather than ideas? Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here, Possibly! Prose style is pretty important to me. On the other hand, that's not something I generally complain about with Stephenson. Even when he misfires, the result is usually entertaining. Being bland is a bigger sin, IMO, and not one he commits often. I think the two go hand-in-hand for me. Having both is best, but I'll take either. > but you seem you like your complex language constructs, so to speak? Hah, my writing style owes to more to me not taking the time to edit that I should. Also ADHD. Probably both. > English is a second language to me. I wonder if isn't also a factor. Hm. I don't know! I could see some of the sections being a real slog, though. > The ideas in Snow Crash where really the most important things.. next to brilliant writing style (the deliverator...). I love the collection of ideas, it was a fun bit of sci-fi! I just felt like it was missing something to really make it fit together better. I agree that the writing is a ton of fun in it too, I love the opening bit describing how the Uncle Enzo's Pizza company runs a whole battery of experiments to try and understand why people are so aggressive about late pizza. I think about this stretch and laugh very hard every once in a while: "... [Uncle Enzo's Pizza's researchers] studied their brain waves as they showed them choppy, inexplicable movies of porn queens and late-night car crashes and Sammy Davis, Jr., put them in sweet-smelling, mauve-walled rooms and asked them questions about Ethics so perplexing that even a Jesuit couldn’t respond without committing a venial sin."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Did Stephenson become like the Pynchon of sci-fi or something? Cryptonomicon is such a huge book.
  - MikeBVaughn 4y ago
    I don't mean this in a snarky way at all. I'm being completely genuine. I always thought of Pynchon as the Pynchon of sci-fi. If Cryptonomicon is sci-fi, then Gravity's Rainbow definitely is, if not more so.
e12e 4y ago
Maybe it's because I read Singh's excellent "the code book" right before "Cryptonomicon" - but I found it a mediocre, overly long and contrived take on similar concept/material. I thought "Snow Crash" was fun, and "Diamond Age" is one of my favorite books - although - come to think of it - it's probably about time I read it again...
kadoban 4y ago
Zodiac is really good if you haven't read it. Not as good as his later stuff, but a lot of fun.

world2vec 4y ago

Snowcrash, Cryptonomicon and Diamond Age are absolute gems. I've read these 3 books multiple times. I've read all the other books but they are indeed weirder and weirder and don't really appeal to me.

beambot 4y ago
I really like Seveneves too.
- world2vec 4y ago
  The first half was interesting. The second part not so much IMHO, Neal went really into epigenetics in such a bizarre way.
  - ghiculescu 4y ago
    ^ Agree. Similarly I thought Anathem started really well and then became very confusing toward the end. Also REAMDE was fun, maybe he wasn't trying as hard but I liked that.
comboy 4y ago
Any elaboration on why do you find Cryptonomicon in particular worth re-reading? It seemed pretty verbose.
- world2vec 4y ago
  It is very verbose, wacky and all over the place, and that's precisely why I like to re-read it every 3 years or so. ;)
- e12e 4y ago
  My theory is that after the success of Diamond Age, editors stopped cutting the manuscripts down to the third that was good... :'(
  - 4y ago

hprotagonist 4y ago

Anathem absolutely nailed it for me. i love that book.

cld8483 4y ago
Same. It took me a few years to get past the first few pages, but once I did that book just clicked for me.
more_corn 4y ago
That is super good to hear. I’ve got it on my shelf unread.

askvictor 4y ago

Seems to alternate nowadays between a sci-fi-tinted-page-turner that goes to some really weird places, and an intellectual sci-fi (that also goes some weird places, but that's pretty common for sci-fi).