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I’ve always found it fascinating that most (white) Americans I know seemingly manage to find crazy (often highly aspirational) justifications for owning 20mpg g

I’ve always found it fascinating that most (white) Americans I know seemingly manage to find crazy (often highly aspirational) justifications for owning 20mpg giant cars: the alternatives exist, they’re great, and yet a lot of people decide to drive monster SUVs and trucks even though they’re objectively worse to drive. It’s obviously the same people who are always in debt and never understand why, despite their incomes being 2-3x what’d they earn in any other country, they never seen to be saving any money.

tropicalbeach 4y ago
Why there fun to drive, are bigger and more room inside. Trucks are better especially in the snow, same with suvs.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  I love these « benefits » because they are all incredibly shallow. Trucks are better in snow, assuming the snow isn’t cleared where you are. For the vast majority of the urban population, ground clearance isn’t an issue at all. The flip side of increased interior room is exterior width, poor site lines, increased weight, increased energy waste, increased danger to pedestrians, increased road wear…
  - LBJsPNS 4y ago
    Yeah, well, I'm not going to carry $10K worth of tools and a couple of ladders on a bicycle. Or on the bus. Yes that's my work truck. Yes those tools get used every day.
    - eldaisfish 4y ago
      I’m not sure what point you are trying to make by describing the exception.
      - Eupraxias 4y ago
        Entire regions that are 'the exception', shouldn't exist?
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > describing the exception Never seen a pick-up in New York or San Francisco. They're everywhere in Wyoming. No, you don't need it around town. But if you're hauling a snowmobile or going off road, even only a few times a year, the trade-off can be worth it. I don't drive a truck. But calling a subjective preference "objectively worse" is reductive.
      - LBJsPNS 4y ago
        I'm suggesting you have a total lack of understanding why trucks can be a necessity and not merely "the exception." I realize a lot of folks on HN work coding or other computer/technology focused jobs. There are many of us, however, who are tasked with keeping reality relatively functional. Trucks aren't optional for us. Neither are they compensation for inadequate manhood. They're tools. My tool chain is Ford and Milwaukee M12. What's yours?
    - crote 4y ago
      You could probably get a Mercedes-Benz Vito, or a similar vehicle. It has even more storage space, and it is more convenient to access than a truck bed. Sure, a truck might be the best vehicle for your use case. It's probably the best vehicle for farmers, for example. But you could do all that with a 1970'd Ford F-150 just fine. Why does the 2023 F-150 have to be so much bigger, while not even gaining a lot cargo space?
      - LBJsPNS 4y ago
        In my case it's a 2008 E-250 van. Portable shop on wheels. Were I younger and looking to build an empire it would probably be a box truck. I agree that pickups have grown ridiculously large.
Spooky23 4y ago
I have 3 kids. The minivan and SUV are by far the best options for my family. And i would make the same argument for 2 kids. When I had to commute more and the kids were little, I had a super efficient car. Now I have the SUV, and the delta is probably 100 gallons of gas annually. Personally, I’d rather have a station wagon, but they don’t make them anymore. My next car in a few years will be an electric non-Tesla minivan/crossover vehicle.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  What justification is there for SUV for the 99% of people who never drive on a trail? Minivan is more spacious and fuel efficient and can easily sit 8 adults. The only answer I have received for why someone is buying an SUV rather than minivan is for vanity.
jemmyw 4y ago
I agree. You'll get a bunch of anecdotal replies going on about how their particular use case blah de blah, but the majority of people I know with these huge cars have absolutely no need for them. I've got 3 kids and a bunch of animals, pick up a bale of hay or straw regularly, tow a trailer occasionally for garden landscaping. And we've got a 5 door saloon. When we planned a long trip we thought maybe a larger car would be useful so we test drove a bunch of SUV things. They don't even give you extra space. The room across the backseats is actually less, and the boot space is more vertical. I'd rather have the better drive.
pandaman 4y ago
Cars are better to drive on a nice dry road. They suck in unplowed snow or in the flood, pretty bad even in just a heavy rain. Many places where people live in the US get either or all of the above. Significant number of people die stuck in such conditions in a car[1]. But even though the chances to die are pretty low, an inconvenience of having no means of transportation whenever there are few inches of snow on the road or having to flatbed your superior ride after being caught in a flash flood pushes many people towards objectively more reliable vehicles. 1. https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145589871/buffalo-winter-storm-aftermath https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145589871/buffalo-winter-sto...

tropicalbeach 4y ago

Why there fun to drive, are bigger and more room inside. Trucks are better especially in the snow, same with suvs.

eldaisfish 4y ago
I love these « benefits » because they are all incredibly shallow. Trucks are better in snow, assuming the snow isn’t cleared where you are. For the vast majority of the urban population, ground clearance isn’t an issue at all. The flip side of increased interior room is exterior width, poor site lines, increased weight, increased energy waste, increased danger to pedestrians, increased road wear…
- LBJsPNS 4y ago
  Yeah, well, I'm not going to carry $10K worth of tools and a couple of ladders on a bicycle. Or on the bus. Yes that's my work truck. Yes those tools get used every day.
  - eldaisfish 4y ago
    I’m not sure what point you are trying to make by describing the exception.
    - Eupraxias 4y ago
      Entire regions that are 'the exception', shouldn't exist?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > describing the exception Never seen a pick-up in New York or San Francisco. They're everywhere in Wyoming. No, you don't need it around town. But if you're hauling a snowmobile or going off road, even only a few times a year, the trade-off can be worth it. I don't drive a truck. But calling a subjective preference "objectively worse" is reductive.
    - LBJsPNS 4y ago
      I'm suggesting you have a total lack of understanding why trucks can be a necessity and not merely "the exception." I realize a lot of folks on HN work coding or other computer/technology focused jobs. There are many of us, however, who are tasked with keeping reality relatively functional. Trucks aren't optional for us. Neither are they compensation for inadequate manhood. They're tools. My tool chain is Ford and Milwaukee M12. What's yours?
  - crote 4y ago
    You could probably get a Mercedes-Benz Vito, or a similar vehicle. It has even more storage space, and it is more convenient to access than a truck bed. Sure, a truck might be the best vehicle for your use case. It's probably the best vehicle for farmers, for example. But you could do all that with a 1970'd Ford F-150 just fine. Why does the 2023 F-150 have to be so much bigger, while not even gaining a lot cargo space?
    - LBJsPNS 4y ago
      In my case it's a 2008 E-250 van. Portable shop on wheels. Were I younger and looking to build an empire it would probably be a box truck. I agree that pickups have grown ridiculously large.

Spooky23 4y ago

I have 3 kids. The minivan and SUV are by far the best options for my family. And i would make the same argument for 2 kids. When I had to commute more and the kids were little, I had a super efficient car. Now I have the SUV, and the delta is probably 100 gallons of gas annually. Personally, I’d rather have a station wagon, but they don’t make them anymore. My next car in a few years will be an electric non-Tesla minivan/crossover vehicle.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
What justification is there for SUV for the 99% of people who never drive on a trail? Minivan is more spacious and fuel efficient and can easily sit 8 adults. The only answer I have received for why someone is buying an SUV rather than minivan is for vanity.

jemmyw 4y ago

I agree. You'll get a bunch of anecdotal replies going on about how their particular use case blah de blah, but the majority of people I know with these huge cars have absolutely no need for them. I've got 3 kids and a bunch of animals, pick up a bale of hay or straw regularly, tow a trailer occasionally for garden landscaping. And we've got a 5 door saloon. When we planned a long trip we thought maybe a larger car would be useful so we test drove a bunch of SUV things. They don't even give you extra space. The room across the backseats is actually less, and the boot space is more vertical. I'd rather have the better drive.

pandaman 4y ago

Cars are better to drive on a nice dry road. They suck in unplowed snow or in the flood, pretty bad even in just a heavy rain. Many places where people live in the US get either or all of the above. Significant number of people die stuck in such conditions in a car[1]. But even though the chances to die are pretty low, an inconvenience of having no means of transportation whenever there are few inches of snow on the road or having to flatbed your superior ride after being caught in a flash flood pushes many people towards objectively more reliable vehicles. 1. https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145589871/buffalo-winter-storm-aftermath https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145589871/buffalo-winter-sto...