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Interestingly I work at Ericsson Germany and we only got notified of this today. Just six days ago I commented: > Oh no. Since a large part of many medium-larg

by dxuh 4y ago

Interestingly I work at Ericsson Germany and we only got notified of this today. Just six days ago I commented: > Oh no. Since a large part of many medium-large sized tech companies' management style seems to consist of "copy what Amazon and Google are doing", I am scared of what silly decisions in other companies this might inspire. I feel that my model of Ericssons upper management has been validated with one more data point, which is one reason why I would not be all that bummed if it turns out to hit me.

planede 4y ago
Don't worry, small-to-medium software companies do exactly the same.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Well, at least Germany is at the brink of a recession. And the signs are there to see for quite a while now. Companies restructering and preparing for an expected economic downturn can be hardly called bad management. Also, not eveything is driven by Big Tech, nor does everyone just copy ehat FANG is doing.
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - outside1234 4y ago
      While I agree that Germany can and should do more, it is worth pointing out that France, Spain, and Italy are all contributing less than Germany. And Switzerland's level of aid is frankly appalling (too much money to be made in laundering Russian money apparently). https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
      - inigoalonso 4y ago
        True. They also have smaller economies and are arguably less responsible for Russia's strengthening. They are also less vulnerable in case of military escalation.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Plus, I don't get it why everybody thinks that it was Germany's, or any other single NATo countries, decision what ang how much aid Ukraine was getting when. First was a bunch former Warsaw pact gear, then NATO decided to send top notch hardware, namely Abrams Leopard and Challenger 2s. So far, the whole miltary NATO aid for Ukraine, which started years before the actual invasion, seems to work out rather well. Nothing of that has anything to do with layoffs, that economic crisis was bound to happen after COVID and decades of free money.
      - honkler 4y ago
        Don't pay heed to the commenter above you. They have been guilt tripping Germany since decades. Germany would have been better off if it had kept it's own interest first, by drawing redlines around American intentions of taking out nordstream. And I'm not even German, rather an American. But I do keep my eyes and mind open and realize what's going on. Why don't Germans do the same? Hard to think this is the civilization of great thinkers.
        throwanem 4y ago
        You use English the way only a German ever does. Better not to lie at all than to prove so incompetent in the attempt.
        honkler 4y ago
        What do I gain by lying? I could say I'm a german who stands against American Imperialism, and it would only make my argument stronger.
        throwanem 4y ago
    - credit_guy 4y ago
      Chances are that if Russia was taking a good beating, it would have used nukes. It signaled that plenty of times. The strategy with Russia is to arm Ukraine so that the ultimate Russian defeat comes little by little, akin to the proverbial boiling of a frog. Separately, the actual leadership of Nato is on the other side of the Atlantic. Everything that Germany, or France or the UK, or any other Nato member does, needs to be sanctioned in Washington. If Germany was perceived to be slow, at least part of the reason for that lies in Washington.
  - JW_00000 4y ago
    Germany and the rest of the EU have been "at the brink of a recession" for well over a year. (Remember the gas price increases started in October-November 2021, before the war.) Compared to a year ago, a recession seems almost unlikely by now, and if any, seems like it would be small. The US also seems to have avoided a recession. So this is strange timing to me. I also don't see any companies outside tech doing massive layoffs.
siggen 4y ago
All these layoffs we’re seeing were planned well over six months ago. It’s not coordinated or copy-cat. However, it may be that all the bean counters learned the same lessons in the same schools. So, given certain scenarios, their best answer is: layoff people.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  > All these layoffs we’re seeing were planned well over six months ago Source? Most of the layoffs I've seen have been poorly planned and hastily implemented.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Salgat 4y ago
    To add to this, there's a massive difference between discussing the possibility due to other tech layoffs that occurred last year and actually planning a layoff.
  - kilroy123 4y ago
    I agree
  - siggen 4y ago
    My sources are folks who have been in these layoff discussions for six months. I should have said “some” or “many” instead of “all” since I don’t have sources in “all” these places.
- dxuh 4y ago
  It's definitely not like Ericsson went on a hiring spree during covid, like most other companies that are now laying people off. Their employee numbers have barely changed since 2019.
justapassenger 4y ago
People in tech need to stop thinking that tech is special industry that was just invented in last 10 years. Layoffs in response to an economic uncertainty/slowdown were not invented by Amazon/Google/Meta/Musk. They're as old as economy is.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  We don't, I already went through this several times since the first .com wave. And seeing the support we got in several times via the union fellows in the European countries I have worked on, is also a reason why I am quite supportive of them.
- whiplash451 4y ago
  Except that in the « old » economy, you would be hard pressed to be allowed to fire thousands of people with a P&L showing billions in profit (at least in France).
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Easy: Close the ehole division or site and move it abroad. The lay offs will be more expensive so, sure.
  - jimbo9991 4y ago
    Yeah not in the US, if anything the past decade has been very good for programmers when compared to other industries. There are lots of industries in the US that are more ruthless than big tech.
  - justapassenger 4y ago
    Note - I'm not making a statement on the current layoff, as I know nothing about Ericsson. That logic is flawed. Past performance is not indicative of future results. If you see big slowdown coming, isn't it better to prepare for it early? Do you have to wait till you're losing money?
    - waboremo 4y ago
kzrdude 4y ago
Ericsson has been firing like this previously, it's not new. For example in 2015, and several times before.
- Aloha 4y ago
  That was the end of the last deployment cycle (at least in the US), when the wave of 3G to LTE deployments stopped.
mc32 4y ago
Probably people were "wishing" for the economies not to plateau or go into recession. Remember how they were saying, well, that's not the official definition, claiming the working definition used was not relevant. I think many believed that rhetoric and are now in a situation where they are confronting reality.

by dxuh 4y ago

planede 4y ago

Don't worry, small-to-medium software companies do exactly the same.

hef19898 4y ago
Well, at least Germany is at the brink of a recession. And the signs are there to see for quite a while now. Companies restructering and preparing for an expected economic downturn can be hardly called bad management. Also, not eveything is driven by Big Tech, nor does everyone just copy ehat FANG is doing.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - outside1234 4y ago
    While I agree that Germany can and should do more, it is worth pointing out that France, Spain, and Italy are all contributing less than Germany. And Switzerland's level of aid is frankly appalling (too much money to be made in laundering Russian money apparently). https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
    - inigoalonso 4y ago
      True. They also have smaller economies and are arguably less responsible for Russia's strengthening. They are also less vulnerable in case of military escalation.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Plus, I don't get it why everybody thinks that it was Germany's, or any other single NATo countries, decision what ang how much aid Ukraine was getting when. First was a bunch former Warsaw pact gear, then NATO decided to send top notch hardware, namely Abrams Leopard and Challenger 2s. So far, the whole miltary NATO aid for Ukraine, which started years before the actual invasion, seems to work out rather well. Nothing of that has anything to do with layoffs, that economic crisis was bound to happen after COVID and decades of free money.
    - honkler 4y ago
      Don't pay heed to the commenter above you. They have been guilt tripping Germany since decades. Germany would have been better off if it had kept it's own interest first, by drawing redlines around American intentions of taking out nordstream. And I'm not even German, rather an American. But I do keep my eyes and mind open and realize what's going on. Why don't Germans do the same? Hard to think this is the civilization of great thinkers.
      - throwanem 4y ago
        You use English the way only a German ever does. Better not to lie at all than to prove so incompetent in the attempt.
        honkler 4y ago
        What do I gain by lying? I could say I'm a german who stands against American Imperialism, and it would only make my argument stronger.
        throwanem 4y ago
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    Chances are that if Russia was taking a good beating, it would have used nukes. It signaled that plenty of times. The strategy with Russia is to arm Ukraine so that the ultimate Russian defeat comes little by little, akin to the proverbial boiling of a frog. Separately, the actual leadership of Nato is on the other side of the Atlantic. Everything that Germany, or France or the UK, or any other Nato member does, needs to be sanctioned in Washington. If Germany was perceived to be slow, at least part of the reason for that lies in Washington.
- JW_00000 4y ago
  Germany and the rest of the EU have been "at the brink of a recession" for well over a year. (Remember the gas price increases started in October-November 2021, before the war.) Compared to a year ago, a recession seems almost unlikely by now, and if any, seems like it would be small. The US also seems to have avoided a recession. So this is strange timing to me. I also don't see any companies outside tech doing massive layoffs.

siggen 4y ago

All these layoffs we’re seeing were planned well over six months ago. It’s not coordinated or copy-cat. However, it may be that all the bean counters learned the same lessons in the same schools. So, given certain scenarios, their best answer is: layoff people.

CydeWeys 4y ago
> All these layoffs we’re seeing were planned well over six months ago Source? Most of the layoffs I've seen have been poorly planned and hastily implemented.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Salgat 4y ago
  To add to this, there's a massive difference between discussing the possibility due to other tech layoffs that occurred last year and actually planning a layoff.
- kilroy123 4y ago
  I agree
- siggen 4y ago
  My sources are folks who have been in these layoff discussions for six months. I should have said “some” or “many” instead of “all” since I don’t have sources in “all” these places.
dxuh 4y ago
It's definitely not like Ericsson went on a hiring spree during covid, like most other companies that are now laying people off. Their employee numbers have barely changed since 2019.

justapassenger 4y ago

People in tech need to stop thinking that tech is special industry that was just invented in last 10 years. Layoffs in response to an economic uncertainty/slowdown were not invented by Amazon/Google/Meta/Musk. They're as old as economy is.

pjmlp 4y ago
We don't, I already went through this several times since the first .com wave. And seeing the support we got in several times via the union fellows in the European countries I have worked on, is also a reason why I am quite supportive of them.
whiplash451 4y ago
Except that in the « old » economy, you would be hard pressed to be allowed to fire thousands of people with a P&L showing billions in profit (at least in France).
- hef19898 4y ago
  Easy: Close the ehole division or site and move it abroad. The lay offs will be more expensive so, sure.
- jimbo9991 4y ago
  Yeah not in the US, if anything the past decade has been very good for programmers when compared to other industries. There are lots of industries in the US that are more ruthless than big tech.
- justapassenger 4y ago
  Note - I'm not making a statement on the current layoff, as I know nothing about Ericsson. That logic is flawed. Past performance is not indicative of future results. If you see big slowdown coming, isn't it better to prepare for it early? Do you have to wait till you're losing money?
  - waboremo 4y ago

kzrdude 4y ago

Ericsson has been firing like this previously, it's not new. For example in 2015, and several times before.

Aloha 4y ago
That was the end of the last deployment cycle (at least in the US), when the wave of 3G to LTE deployments stopped.

mc32 4y ago

Probably people were "wishing" for the economies not to plateau or go into recession. Remember how they were saying, well, that's not the official definition, claiming the working definition used was not relevant. I think many believed that rhetoric and are now in a situation where they are confronting reality.