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You’re Not a Girlboss – You’re Just Trapped in an MLM Scheme (2020)
- Manuel_D 4y agoWell, technically you are a boss. You're just a boss of a one-person and unprofitable business.
- techie128 4y agoFailure is a step towards success! /s
- maxbond 4y agoOnly in the most technical sense. Consider LuLaRoe (I'm only 90% sure I've got the name right, this might be a different MLM); you pay for your own inventory, and then they ship you a random bag of clothes. If a certain pattern sells really well - you have no power to order more of it. If a certain pattern doesn't sell at all - you have no power to nix it from your future inventory. You aren't the boss, you're a bag holder.
- MandieD 4y agoYou absolutely got the name and the “business” model right. If I never again see a “super cute!”, eye-searingly gaudy pair of leggings or other clothing being flogged online by one of my sweet but socially-susceptible high school classmates, it will be too soon.
- AlbertCory 4y agoMary Kay. Tupperware. AmWay. Only the names change.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- aksss 4y agoI don’t know if Mary Kay is different than others but have known several women that made good side money with it, one that earned enough that it was her only (well-paying but not fu money) job. I mean, recruiting others as essentially a sales team isn’t that much different from the typical upwardly mobile corporate career track in the sense of expanding one’s sphere of responsibility and influence and getting compensated for such a progression.
- nsxwolf 4y agoI worked at an “MLM” (we called it Direct Sales) SaaS company for a decade. We provided an e-commerce and commissions platform for many of these companies that you’ve probably heard of. I’m well aware of the criticisms of the industry but it surprises me that no one ever tells the story of the hundreds or thousands of women in each of these organizations that are variously getting rich, making a living, or getting decent side money doing this. Maybe they’re all exploiting the women in their down lines. Fair. But why are people reluctant to tell their stories? I promise you - with the women at the top, there’s a lot of cocaine and sex and wild stories to tell. But that doesn’t seem to be enough of a draw for anyone to show a balanced picture.
- freetime2 4y ago> I promise you - with the women at the top, there’s a lot of cocaine and sex and wild stories to tell. Damn - now you’ve piqued my interest. Someone needs to make a “Wolf of Wall Street” movie but for Amway.
- nsxwolf 4y agoThere was a series with Kirsten Dunst named “On Becoming a God in Central Florida” about the subject but somehow it didn’t grab me in the first couple episodes. It looked like yet another look at the industry from the bottom up, where the more interesting view is from the top down.
- n1b0m 4y agoThere’s been a documentary about LuLaRoe [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/15/lularich-lularoe-amazon-docuseries https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/15/lularic...
- AlbertCory 4y agoI'm kinda surprised at all the hatred this unleashed. I do think MLM's are a scam, so I can't disagree with any of it. Except this: Have a little empathy with all the poor suckers at the bottom. They're trying to better themselves, and most of them are kind, hardworking people. It's too bad the MLM pushes them to become exploitive b_stards, and it would be nice to use all that energy ethically instead of just shutting them down.
- thenoblesunfish 4y agoNow that I routinely read stuff generated by LLMs, I suspect it everywhere. That line about it "even" being on Schitt's Creek somehow tripped my "nice try, robot" response. The idea that LLMs are going to replace this kind of fluffier journalism is seeming more plausible to me.
- rightbyte 4y agoThe article is years old though.
- thenoblesunfish 4y agoI didn't mean to imply it is AI generated, but rather I'm starting to recognize the style, that I thought was bad AI, in banal human writing.
- ge96 4y agoI was at a networking thing on GroupMeet or some app like that. Thought I made a friend, then it was an MLM setup like damn.
- ge96 4y agoMeetUp is the app my bad
- DangitBobby 4y agoGotta wonder why these are legal.
- bongoman37 4y ago[dead]
- cde-v 4y agoBecause they follow the law and publish how unlikely you are to make money with them. It isn't illegal to take money from stupid people. https://www.amway.com/en_US/income-disclosure https://www.amway.com/en_US/income-disclosure https://www.marykay.ca/en-ca/pages/earnings-representation https://www.marykay.ca/en-ca/pages/earnings-representation https://library.youngliving.com/en/us/U.S.-Annual-Income-Disclosure-Statement/134978856 https://library.youngliving.com/en/us/U.S.-Annual-Income-Dis... https://www.lularoe.com/lularoe-income-disclosure-statement https://www.lularoe.com/lularoe-income-disclosure-statement
- Dalewyn 4y agoI once read that business is the art of ripping someone off without pissing them off, and I've since made that a part of my life philosophy because it's very accurate. These businesses are simply more devious manifestations of that art.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ikekkdcjkfke 4y agoWhat about creating something of value?
- kwere 4y agovalue is the eye of the customer and in the marketing-skills of the seller
- korroziya 4y agoCriticizing the "girlboss" fad even a year ago would have been a bona-fide way to end up jobless and blacklisted. Glad to see a few people are finally using the term for what it deserves: a joke.
- freetime2 4y ago> Criticizing the "girlboss" fad even a year ago would have been a bona-fide way to end up jobless and blacklisted This article was written in mid-2020. I don’t know how the article was received at the time, but presumably the author was not blacklisted or fired for it.
- znpy 4y agoHowever on the same site as the article I cannot find any more post after this from the same author.
- newuser94303 4y agoIt looks like she only ever wrote 2 articles for them. Maybe they don't pay much https://thefinancialdiet.com/write-for-us/ https://thefinancialdiet.com/write-for-us/
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoShe’s a fairly young freelancer from UK. Looks like a lot of her stuff is pretty “fluffy,” and not my cup of tea, but she hasn’t been “canceled,” as far as I can tell. She can be easily found on the Web (I won’t directly link to her stuff, but a quick google brings it up).
- znpy 4y agoAh, no idea. I wasn't really expressing a judgment on the person or the journalist, just an observation. What actually happened I don't think we'll ever know.
- deleted 4y ago
- thewebcount 4y agoI feel like this could describe a lot of the culture around startups, too: > Until we all begin to acknowledge there’s more to life than “the hustle,” and that struggling financially is not a personal failure, MLMs will continue to recruit and exploit aspiring girlbosses under the guise of female empowerment. You could easily change that to: > Until we all begin to acknowledge there’s more to life than “the hustle,” and that struggling financially is not a personal failure, startup culture will continue to recruit and exploit people under the guise of [getting rich, disrupting tech, changing the world, etc.]. I mean, it’s not an organized thing like an MLM, but I see a lot of the same toxic language and behavior around startups.
- babypuncher 4y agoIt's extremely bad in Utah's startup scene, and I'm sure that is because we are also the MLM capital of the world. So many startups pop up and they don't even seem to have a good idea for solving a problem. It's a bunch of MBAs who think hiring a million engineers and having them build something will make everyone involved rich.
- swatcoder 4y agoThat’s startup culture everywhere. And as long as the staff and founders areon payroll and not making terrible sacrifices, it’s just voluntary wealth transfer.
- brtkdotse 4y ago“ The epiphany that explains the crypto boom, Andrew Tate, “passive income” strategies, dropshipping, finance influencers, executive training programs, meme stocks, etc is the commercial realization that American men are extremely susceptible to multi-level marketing schemes” https://mobile.twitter.com/jherrerx/status/1612339869707108352 https://mobile.twitter.com/jherrerx/status/16123398697071083...
- derefr 4y agoA thing is only an MLM if the people at the top of it are actually getting rich off of the backs of the people below them. Which is true of some of the things in that list. But for others (e.g. dropshipping — and also "freelancing" for companies like Uber) it's just participation in a sector-wide race-to-the-bottom, where the free competition and commoditization of every role in the system drives margins at every step to zero, resulting in literally nobody getting rich.
- strogonoff 4y agoMLMs abuse key social instincts of a human (“we are family” and all that junk) and use them against other humans in order to profit higher levels of the scheme. Socialization itself is hijacked for the purpose of making sales, because that’s how the victim stays afloat. Every time I see it in person it’s sad to observe.
- corbulo 4y agoAnyone advertising that your work will be like a family environment is a major red flag. The ethics for running a business successfully and raising/managing a family are pretty high contrast.
- throwbadubadu 4y agoYeah, but those MLMs are really a magnitude different and take this to cult like levels and use awkward psyche tricks.. if you never experienced one personally direct or indirectly and think this is similar to the normal work world (even startup craziness is not comparable, really) just feel free to visit one of their recruitment meeting shows. (My mother got into one 20 years ago and dragged some people with her in, fortunately she was the only one with significant money investment lost..).
- anon7725 4y agoIndeed. Some companies tread out some light pablum around “we’re a family,” but MLM schemes weaponize human relationships and social conventions for profit. The MLM metastasizes through social networks and often damages them pretty significantly. Having a personal relationship turn into an avenue for sales pressure is very dispiriting.
- mordae 4y agoI would immediately ask "you mean with transparent financing, equal standard of living for everyone involved and taking care of each other even when we are sick or miserable?". I don't think business must be ruthless. If it's a coop... I have an interview today. Wish me luck. :-D
- nonethewiser 4y agoIt’s such a stupid term too. Not only does it suggest bosses are men by default, but it makes you sound like you have a big ego and low self esteem.
- givemeethekeys 4y agoPeople who promote themself as some kind of a community leader beyond their actual role have a massive chip on their shoulder. If you report to them, you can bet that ego's going to be nauseating, including the random power moves.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- MandieD 4y ago"#girlboss" (and the possibly even more nauseating "#bossbabe") are what some of us feminists (oooo, scary word) describe as "empowerful": something that sounds superficially like it makes women more powerful or freer, but absolutely doesn't, instead actually contributing to making things worse for most women involved, trapping them even more firmly in the situations they're trying to escape or improve. I think "empowerful" isn't the best term for this phenomenon, as it's used widely for all sorts of things and programs that are anywhere from helpful, to probably well-intentioned, to unironic examples of the very thing I described.
- pushingice 4y agoSeems like a perfectly cromulent word to me.
- lynx23 4y ago[flagged]
- krapp 4y agoIntelligent people, male and female, can be driven to emotional and mental instability by social media and can be ripped off by scams. The narrative you're trying to dunk on only exists inside your head, along with the straw feminists who seem to live there, rent free.
- lynx23 4y ago[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- solaarphunk 4y agoMany crypto "communities" that reinforce an in-crowd mentality and simultaneously pitch buying into a coin/NFT as a path to financial prosperity are stunningly similar. They generally just target male aspirations instead of female ones.
- babyshake 4y agoStartups hiring early employees and asking them to have the commitment and work ethic of a founder but a tiny fraction of a founder's equity, playing up the exciting possibility of a billion dollar valuation while never mentioning the liquidation preferences and possibility of many years of illiquidity -- this is essentially an MLM and it's incredibly common among Y Combinator companies.
- fxtentacle 4y agoIt's only an MLM if they hire you as HR where you recruit the next wave of exploitation participants.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoEmployees have a better overall risk / reward ratio, as they usually do receive salary, unlike founders, who often invest their own money and have negative effective salary. So them having a higher equity is fair.
- somsak2 4y agoby a factor of 100-10000x? maybe a 2 or even a 10x multiple would be reasonable but that's not how it works.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoI'd love to see your calculations how you arrived to a factor 10000x number. Anyway, employees are always free to start their own company and potentially receive all the reward they can get.
- erur 4y agoFor Joe average, the expected value of working at a random startup is positive - compared to not working. It's just the employee's gamble to figure out whether the expected value is high enough and the risk ratio is aligned with their preference. The expected return for an average MLM joiner is deep in the reds. From an individual perspective that's a huge difference.
- sircastor 4y agoA guy I knew many years ago was a compliance officer for an MLM company - basically his job was to ensure the people in the system were not breaking the rules. He told us explicitly once that he’d never buy or sell the company’s product. He knew that MLMs were a scam. It’s odd to me, because he was a super standup guy in everything else - this part of him always struck me as out of character
- noduerme 4y agoSo... it's hard out there. My girlfriend is successful as an independent massage therapist, after working many years in day-spas where she had to accept lower wages and give up a lot of her income. Because she's successful, she's constantly being hit upon by female friends either inviting her into schemes or asking her for advice. (Some of these friends, she helps do their taxes - for free, because these 30-something women can't figure it out - but she doesn't give them financial advice). Knowing a lot of these people and watching their schemes get derailed, I've come to a few conclusions. 1. Financial literacy basically doesn't exist. It's a miracle that my girlfriend taught herself. I'm not one to say that it's being intentionally suppressed in our educational system; I think the people who teach and write curricula are equally unequipped, so it's just a generational problem now in America. 2. The most paranoid / suspicious / likely to believe conspiracy theories are the ones who fall hardest for obvious ponzi schemes over and over. It's not clear to me why people who wouldn't accept a sandwich from a stranger are willing to put their life savings into an obvious scam (other than low IQ?) 3. It's brutal being a girl who gets into her 30s with a few kids and has no money and no prospects. Big companies hiring these women thrive on their desperation, so they're tolerant of smaller scams screwing them over and perpetuating the sense of there being no creative/industrious outlet for them. 4. Women's lib has been hijacked to the point that it's just another excuse for oppressing American women. This doesn't have to come in the form of workplace discrimination at Google. It's that the very inclusiveness of Google gives an excuse to the rest of society to dump the worst tasks and the most burden on women, with the excuse that everyone's now equal. That combined with a serious deficit in understanding the complicated schemes taking advantage of people results in this head-shakingly bizarre situation where tropes like "taking control of my life" are, over and over, just joining the latest iteration of Avon or tupperware parties. So not to just sit here and complain, I'd offer a couple solutions: 1. Bring back real accounting and home eq classes 2. Have serious discussions in school about the life-altering consequences of early pregnancy 3. Tech companies need to take an active hand in labeling these things as MLMs or viral fads or simply not good investments 4. Women in their 30s-50s, who are a huge driving force of our economy, need to have paths to advancement that don't require going through get-rich-quick schemes, and this isn't something that can be accomplished by a few companies trotting out female VPs of marketing or something. Equal pay isn't enough; equal opportunities are what's needed. A final thought; Jan 6th was supported by as many women as men. So was the Nazi occupation of Poland. Women can't be discounted as a force of political disaster if you create an underclass of so many disenfranchised people. The growth of these schemes among women is a very bad sign for our future as a democratic / market-based polity.
- freetime2 4y agoMy wife got involved in something similar that wasn’t MLM, but basically a program where you pay for training and certification (and the certification has to be renewed every year for a fee). The promise of flexible hours was also a big selling point of this new “career”. It’s hard because to me the whole thing sounded like a bad deal, but you also want to support your spouse. We ended up just talking through our hopes/concerns, what would be an acceptable amount of money to lose, etc. She decided she wanted to do it anyway, and I resolved to support her (basically just keep my mouth shut and not say “I told you so”). Nothing really came of it and we ended up losing an inconsequential amount of money. No regrets really. But if it had been an MLM scheme that also required putting pressure on friends and family, or the costs were bigger, that could have been a much harder conversation.
- KingOfCoders 4y ago"My wife got involved in something similar that wasn’t MLM, but basically a program where you pay for training and certification (and the certification has to be renewed every year for a fee)." Sounds like Agile Certifications.
- devoutsalsa 4y agoOr being an insurance agent with no base salary.
- luckylion 4y agoI guess that may have led to harassing friends and family about buying / switching insurance. With agile, that's probably less likely. "Hey mom, I know you like baking, but I really think you could be much happier if you didn't just follow the recipe from A to Z but instead reacted to challenges in a more agile way."
- solarkraft 4y agoSure, your process works, but have you tried Agile ™?
- PicassoCTs 4y agoIts just another "life-your-dream" scheme. Thats what old artists and old bohemians resort to in the bitter end. You scam the youth of tomorrow to have something to life from.. the dream is interchangeable, music, modeling, game-design, movies, fame or business acumen. It also always turns into something sour, probably repressed guilt, trying to scare the youngsters off.
- 2-718-281-828 4y agoI think most people in MLM do know very well what they get into. They just think they are smarter than the others who will be still in that game when it falls apart. Recruit, cash in, leave. Of course, they'll also play the victim card as soon as it turns out they aren't as smart as they thought.