12 ms·

This is one of those important events in life where you realise that sometimes those who hold seniority over you aren't necessarily as smart as you are. This ex

This is one of those important events in life where you realise that sometimes those who hold seniority over you aren't necessarily as smart as you are. This experience will help you to cultivate a healthy disrespect for authority. We all go through something like this at some point. The best thing to do is to find some sort of constructive way to channel your experience. One path I would suggest is to consider launching your own rival competition, where the judges are volunteers from industry, and the prize is an internship at a company or something like that. This would not only provide your peers with a great opportunity to get quality feedback, but also serve as a really useful experience that would help you in your future career. What have you got to lose? Perhaps you could even get GitHub to sponsor it :)

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
[flagged]
- californical 4y ago
  The rule in question bans template generators. Their teacher didn’t understand that just because you can technically copy a template off of GitHub doesn’t mean that is the only thing GitHub is for.
- weird-eye-issue 4y ago
  The rule is to not use "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files..." They didn't do that. They uploaded the HTML to Github directly.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    They quote the rule and link to the full rules. GitHub is explicitly mentioned. They failed on a technicality. https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2018-2019/2022-2023/hs---webmaster.pdf?sfvrsn=9d75e16c_2 https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2... She then points out this rule in the Official Rulebook: I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted.
    - olivermuty 4y ago
      You only use the template engine if you go through github.io or if you look at .md files in the UI. So you are not even «technically» using the template engine part of Github. However root commenters sentiment is still very valid, the sooner you realize how many people who are not particularly smart also work in this business the sooner :D Developers are starting to become a pretty decent average representation of the population the later years after all.
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        Smartness has nothing to do with project requirements. If the requirements say "no Github", you don't use Github. It's really that simple. The rules don't specify "github.io" or "load .md files", it broadly specifies "Github" the website "that generate[s] HTML from text" in no uncertain terms. If you then proceed to use Github, it's only fair you are disqualified.
        edflsafoiewq 4y ago
        You may have a future teaching high school.
        Aeolun 4y ago
        Or interviewer
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        denton-scratch 4y ago
        The rule didn't say "No github".
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        No, in fact the rules specify a "Github" among others as examples of "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files" that you are "NOT permitted" (their emphasis) to use. Translating that into practical terms, it means "no Github", and also "no Jekyll" and all the other examples named and not named.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    GitHub is a site that, among other functionality, generates HTML from markdown. With the rule as written, it’s been broken.
bitwize 4y ago
[flagged]
- onli 4y ago
  I'm really sorry you feel that way. I dont even disagree that this BS exists, but it is almost nonexistent in my world. Just to say this is not the lesson the students have to learn.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    It's good that students learn this lesson now than later. Right now they get to learn these lessons with no skin off their backs. They're kids, most of the stuff they do is of no consequence one way or another. Once they enter the real world and the workforce, they get to learn these lessons with prices ranging from reprimands to terminations. Hardly a fun thing to go through.
    - paulluuk 4y ago
      People have been using this argument against me since I was a child: "this is good for you because the big bad world will crush you", but frankly I thought it was nonsense back then and I still do. The world is not filled with teacher-type people who will crush you for breaking rules. The world is filled with people who want to get things done, and know that the rules are only there to facilitate getting things done. If the rules get in the way to getting things done, they are ignored.
      - pixl97 4y ago
        I see someone doesn't actually have to follow any legal regulations in their line of work. After your 12th hour straight in an IT call with a bank trying to fix a simple issue multiple compliance officers are on the call all fighting each other, you come to realize the nightmare teacher types do exist.
        welshwelsh 4y ago
Bean0_0 4y ago
That is a super good idea, some of our posts have taken off and we have even been contacted by the vp of developer relations for github. I'll contact the rest of the group and see what they think. Although, I do happen to know that fbla has a similar type contest to TSA so we might just move to that next year.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  >> The best thing to do is to find some sort of constructive way to channel your experience. One path I would suggest is to consider launching your own rival competition, where the judges are volunteers from industry, and the prize is an internship at a company or something like that. This would not only provide your peers with a great opportunity to get quality feedback, but also serve as a really useful experience that would help you in your future career. What have you got to lose? Reading the replies to this comment saying "rules are rules" is honestly heart breaking. Where has the real spirit of innovation gone? The hacker ethics [0]? > Although, I do happen to know that fbla has a similar type contest to TSA so we might just move to that next year. It's your decision, but I say build your own. You've built an audience, already have outreach into the community and a good story. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic
  - peterkelly 4y ago
    > Reading the replies to this comment saying "rules are rules" is honestly heart breaking Yeah that was sad to see :( I like the attitude that if you don't like the rules, go and make your own thing where you can choose your own rules and not be constrained by those of other people. That's basically the origin story for a lot of successful entrepreneurs.
- peterkelly 4y ago
  If you do go ahead with this, I'd be willing to act as a judge and help out generally with advice. My contact details are in my profile.
  - 4y ago
jrm4 4y ago
You're putting it mildly. Hey kids (and everyone else) if you're even remotely familiar with tech and you don't stay completely siloed in one space - very extremely frequently you will encounter people "above you" in the chain who are comparatively complete idiots re tech. You will have to think carefully about how to proceed when you discover this, it's going to be a constant and consistent question of -- "at this stage, is it worth it for me to press this?" Try not to get discouraged.
prepend 4y ago
I like this approach and is one reason I’m cynical about organizations that run these types of events where the staff have no practical knowledge. There’s an industry of consultants who run challenges and hackathons and I’ve been surprised when organizations spend $100k on consultants to give our $1k in prizes or something. The fact that this challenge doesn’t have a decision maker who knows that GitHub can host as well as template sites and differentiate between the two is a good sign of incompetence. It’s so cool that kids are doing these challenges and I wish they didn’t have to get cynical and review the challenge before participating. One thing I look for is who is on the review committee or board. If it’s people with good backgrounds, that’s a good sign. If it’s faceless or people with no background in the topic, then I advise avoiding.
- Arrath 4y ago
  > There’s an industry of consultants who run challenges and hackathons and I’ve been surprised when organizations spend $100k on consultants to give our $1k in prizes or something. Ah yes the "Thanks for the record breaking quarter everyone, enjoy these 4 $5 Hot n Ready pizzas and two bottles of Coke" event.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
goto11 4y ago
Maybe the lesson is just that competitions tends to have arbitrary rules and limitations. If you think the rules are stupid, don't participate in the competition.
isitmadeofglass 4y ago
[dead]

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago

[flagged]

californical 4y ago
The rule in question bans template generators. Their teacher didn’t understand that just because you can technically copy a template off of GitHub doesn’t mean that is the only thing GitHub is for.
weird-eye-issue 4y ago
The rule is to not use "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files..." They didn't do that. They uploaded the HTML to Github directly.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  They quote the rule and link to the full rules. GitHub is explicitly mentioned. They failed on a technicality. https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2018-2019/2022-2023/hs---webmaster.pdf?sfvrsn=9d75e16c_2 https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2... She then points out this rule in the Official Rulebook: I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted.
  - olivermuty 4y ago
    You only use the template engine if you go through github.io or if you look at .md files in the UI. So you are not even «technically» using the template engine part of Github. However root commenters sentiment is still very valid, the sooner you realize how many people who are not particularly smart also work in this business the sooner :D Developers are starting to become a pretty decent average representation of the population the later years after all.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      Smartness has nothing to do with project requirements. If the requirements say "no Github", you don't use Github. It's really that simple. The rules don't specify "github.io" or "load .md files", it broadly specifies "Github" the website "that generate[s] HTML from text" in no uncertain terms. If you then proceed to use Github, it's only fair you are disqualified.
      - edflsafoiewq 4y ago
        You may have a future teaching high school.
        Aeolun 4y ago
        Or interviewer
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        The rule didn't say "No github".
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        No, in fact the rules specify a "Github" among others as examples of "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files" that you are "NOT permitted" (their emphasis) to use. Translating that into practical terms, it means "no Github", and also "no Jekyll" and all the other examples named and not named.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  GitHub is a site that, among other functionality, generates HTML from markdown. With the rule as written, it’s been broken.

bitwize 4y ago

[flagged]

onli 4y ago
I'm really sorry you feel that way. I dont even disagree that this BS exists, but it is almost nonexistent in my world. Just to say this is not the lesson the students have to learn.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  It's good that students learn this lesson now than later. Right now they get to learn these lessons with no skin off their backs. They're kids, most of the stuff they do is of no consequence one way or another. Once they enter the real world and the workforce, they get to learn these lessons with prices ranging from reprimands to terminations. Hardly a fun thing to go through.
  - paulluuk 4y ago
    People have been using this argument against me since I was a child: "this is good for you because the big bad world will crush you", but frankly I thought it was nonsense back then and I still do. The world is not filled with teacher-type people who will crush you for breaking rules. The world is filled with people who want to get things done, and know that the rules are only there to facilitate getting things done. If the rules get in the way to getting things done, they are ignored.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      I see someone doesn't actually have to follow any legal regulations in their line of work. After your 12th hour straight in an IT call with a bank trying to fix a simple issue multiple compliance officers are on the call all fighting each other, you come to realize the nightmare teacher types do exist.
      - welshwelsh 4y ago

Bean0_0 4y ago

That is a super good idea, some of our posts have taken off and we have even been contacted by the vp of developer relations for github. I'll contact the rest of the group and see what they think. Although, I do happen to know that fbla has a similar type contest to TSA so we might just move to that next year.

908B64B197 4y ago
>> The best thing to do is to find some sort of constructive way to channel your experience. One path I would suggest is to consider launching your own rival competition, where the judges are volunteers from industry, and the prize is an internship at a company or something like that. This would not only provide your peers with a great opportunity to get quality feedback, but also serve as a really useful experience that would help you in your future career. What have you got to lose? Reading the replies to this comment saying "rules are rules" is honestly heart breaking. Where has the real spirit of innovation gone? The hacker ethics [0]? > Although, I do happen to know that fbla has a similar type contest to TSA so we might just move to that next year. It's your decision, but I say build your own. You've built an audience, already have outreach into the community and a good story. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic
- peterkelly 4y ago
  > Reading the replies to this comment saying "rules are rules" is honestly heart breaking Yeah that was sad to see :( I like the attitude that if you don't like the rules, go and make your own thing where you can choose your own rules and not be constrained by those of other people. That's basically the origin story for a lot of successful entrepreneurs.
peterkelly 4y ago
If you do go ahead with this, I'd be willing to act as a judge and help out generally with advice. My contact details are in my profile.
- 4y ago

jrm4 4y ago

You're putting it mildly. Hey kids (and everyone else) if you're even remotely familiar with tech and you don't stay completely siloed in one space - very extremely frequently you will encounter people "above you" in the chain who are comparatively complete idiots re tech. You will have to think carefully about how to proceed when you discover this, it's going to be a constant and consistent question of -- "at this stage, is it worth it for me to press this?" Try not to get discouraged.

prepend 4y ago

I like this approach and is one reason I’m cynical about organizations that run these types of events where the staff have no practical knowledge. There’s an industry of consultants who run challenges and hackathons and I’ve been surprised when organizations spend $100k on consultants to give our $1k in prizes or something. The fact that this challenge doesn’t have a decision maker who knows that GitHub can host as well as template sites and differentiate between the two is a good sign of incompetence. It’s so cool that kids are doing these challenges and I wish they didn’t have to get cynical and review the challenge before participating. One thing I look for is who is on the review committee or board. If it’s people with good backgrounds, that’s a good sign. If it’s faceless or people with no background in the topic, then I advise avoiding.

Arrath 4y ago
> There’s an industry of consultants who run challenges and hackathons and I’ve been surprised when organizations spend $100k on consultants to give our $1k in prizes or something. Ah yes the "Thanks for the record breaking quarter everyone, enjoy these 4 $5 Hot n Ready pizzas and two bottles of Coke" event.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

goto11 4y ago

Maybe the lesson is just that competitions tends to have arbitrary rules and limitations. If you think the rules are stupid, don't participate in the competition.

isitmadeofglass 4y ago

[dead]